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Author Topic: Microtrack Clip Indicators Constant On  (Read 9729 times)

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Offline Diver4243

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Microtrack Clip Indicators Constant On
« on: October 28, 2005, 02:36:32 PM »
I got my m-audio microtrack recently, updated the firmware to 1.1.5 and took it to the blues jam last night. I used these mics http://www.microphonemadness.com/products/mmflexgoosca.htm which are 1/8" cardioid goosneck. I sat at a table about 50 feet from the stage, the PA speakers were up high about 30 feet away on each wall. The microtrack was laying on the table with the gooseneck mics pointed toward the pa speakers (up and out toward each).

I found that even if I put the levels at the absolute minimum, the red clipping led's were on almost continuously. The levels in the LED looked OK, they did occasionally hit max but 90% of the time were below max. But the red clip indicator lights were lit almost always. Of course, like all of them, this jam was loud, but I thought I still should have been able to record. Am I wrong? It's tough to sit further back at this place, the bar is back there, etc. I should have brought the stock mics from the microtrack to a/b, maybe these are just too sensitive for this type of setup? The resulting files sounded as you might think, pretty distorted. Are these mics not right for this type of unit?

Of course I screwed up by not bringing the mic that came with the microtrack to a/b it, but should it make that much of a difference? Isn't there a way to decrease mic sensitivity on the microtrack? the L/M/H won't work for 1/8" inch they told me, the L/M are basically the same (I tried it and found this also).

Offline Chris K

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Re: Microtrack Clip Indicators Constant On
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2005, 02:55:14 PM »
just guessing here...did you turn off the 27db boost in the recording settings? was the l/m/h set to "L"?
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Offline Diver4243

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Re: Microtrack Clip Indicators Constant On
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2005, 03:00:47 PM »
Yes, 27db boost was off, phantom power off, set to wav/44.1/16 bit, I tried it with l/m/h set to both l and m. Microtrack tech support says for 1/8" L and M are the same. Their manual gives the impression that only M should be used with 1/8" mics.

Offline neutrino

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Re: Microtrack Clip Indicators Constant On
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2005, 08:02:03 PM »
Unfortunately you may have to run an attenuator in line with your mics as I noticed the same thing when trying to run my DPA4060's line-in through the 1/4" inputs. I had to turn the levels all the way down, just to keep them from completely maxing out. I don't know why the MT has this default gain structure, but I'm hoping it can be defeated with a firmware revision.
dB-
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Offline WiFiJeff

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Re: Microtrack Clip Indicators Constant On
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2005, 09:36:11 PM »
Unfortunately you may have to run an attenuator in line with your mics as I noticed the same thing when trying to run my DPA4060's line-in through the 1/4" inputs. I had to turn the levels all the way down, just to keep them from completely maxing out. I don't know why the MT has this default gain structure, but I'm hoping it can be defeated with a firmware revision.
dB-


???

I have calibrated my 4060s and MMA6000 against what I am used to setting for line-in to the Edirol R1.  I maxed out the gain setting on line-in for both machines.  The MT neeeds about 2.5 dB more gain (one notch on the MMA6000) than the R1.  This is going line-in though the 1/4" plugs, setting on L (with beta firmware upgrade, on the 1.0.2 version it was on H because of the bug).  You may be taping louder stuff than I am, but I find that front row for a Mahler symphony, which is pretty loud, needs a setting of +5dB on the Edirol R1, which implies 7.5 dB on the MT.  So to have issues you'd need something more than trwice as loud as an orchestra at full blast from 6 feet away.

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Offline eupeptic

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Re: Microtrack Clip Indicators Constant On
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2005, 11:13:19 PM »
Does the MT need to have its power cycled off then back on before changes between mic and line take effect?


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Offline bdasilva

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Re: Microtrack Clip Indicators Constant On
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2005, 10:57:10 PM »
Yes... the MT only "reads" the LMH switch in the way up as it is turned on.
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Offline Diver4243

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Re: Microtrack Clip Indicators Constant On
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2005, 11:41:00 AM »
I recorded with the Microtrack again last weekend. This time it was direct from the sound board at a live show in central park, nyc. I used the 1/4" inputs on the microtrack. Once again, with the levels all the way down, the clip indicators were pretty much constantly on. Using the 1.1.5 firmward and the same settings - WAV, 44.1 sampling, 16 bit. LMH switch was on L and no 27db TRS boost was used. I guess I'll have to call m-audio or return this thing, this is pretty frustrating. Two for two now with only useless recordings to show for the lost time and effort.

Offline danlynch

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Re: Microtrack Clip Indicators Constant On
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2005, 07:44:52 PM »
 I used the 1/4" jacks tonight with an adapter (core sound mics).  The levels were not clipping, but seemed to be working fine.  The resulting wav file has microscopic levels (I can boost these in SF, but there's going to be a ton of hiss).  The level meters are worthless...along with the rest of this piece of junk.
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Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Re: Microtrack Clip Indicators Constant On
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2005, 08:35:28 PM »
It is a serious drag that this thing can't take a consumer line level signal.

You need attenuators...


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Offline fuzn

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Re: Microtrack Clip Indicators Constant On
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2005, 08:11:23 AM »
Unfortunately you may have to run an attenuator in line with your mics as I noticed the same thing when trying to run my DPA4060's line-in through the 1/4" inputs. I had to turn the levels all the way down, just to keep them from completely maxing out. I don't know why the MT has this default gain structure, but I'm hoping it can be defeated with a firmware revision.
dB-

This is odd. I ran my 4061s in the 1/4 input with the dongle that takes power from the 1/8 and I had to move the levels to about 70% just to get it around clipping. I was REALLY surprised about this, since everyone seems to be clipping easily. The first night I ran it at the lowest setting, thinking it would be plenty... and I had to add 12db in post. I'm guessing it's because i'm getting less power? I don't know, but I can't say i'm complaining at all.
DPA 4061s > SP-MicroTrack Dongle > M-Audio MicroTrack

Offline neutrino

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Re: Microtrack Clip Indicators Constant On
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2005, 11:27:34 AM »
Unfortunately you may have to run an attenuator in line with your mics as I noticed the same thing when trying to run my DPA4060's line-in through the 1/4" inputs. I had to turn the levels all the way down, just to keep them from completely maxing out. I don't know why the MT has this default gain structure, but I'm hoping it can be defeated with a firmware revision.
dB-

This is odd. I ran my 4061s in the 1/4 input with the dongle that takes power from the 1/8 and I had to move the levels to about 70% just to get it around clipping. I was REALLY surprised about this, since everyone seems to be clipping easily. The first night I ran it at the lowest setting, thinking it would be plenty... and I had to add 12db in post. I'm guessing it's because i'm getting less power? I don't know, but I can't say i'm complaining at all.

Not that odd considering the DPA4060's are much more sensitive then the DPA4061's.
dB-
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Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Re: Microtrack Clip Indicators Constant On
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2005, 12:42:39 PM »
This is odd. I ran my 4061s in the 1/4 input with the dongle that takes power from the 1/8 and I had to move the levels to about 70% just to get it around clipping. I was REALLY surprised about this, since everyone seems to be clipping easily. The first night I ran it at the lowest setting, thinking it would be plenty... and I had to add 12db in post. I'm guessing it's because i'm getting less power? I don't know, but I can't say i'm complaining at all.

I'm not surprised.. In my measurements, the MT adds a minimum of 14dB of gain on the 1/4" in line mode.  The 4061's have 6 dB less gain than the 4060.   That 14dB will kill your recording if you're getting true line-level.

For Glactic on Friday, I ran 31 dB of gain on the 722.  In a small club, I regularly run 18 dB of gain.  So compared to the min gain on the MT, that would be +4 above min and +13.  For Chris Smithers on Saturday, I ran 55dB of gain on the 722.  This was with Schoeps but the sensitivity is comparable.

I have not extensively tested whether the 4.5v power reduces the output of the 4061's compared to 9v at concert levels. In my initial tests at lower levels, the output levels were similar with 9v and 4.5v.

I did check the voltage on the 1/8" after a show on saturday (with the battery low) and it was still a solid 4.5v. So there does not appear to be dropoff as the bat drains. That was one of my big worries about using the 1/8" to power the DPAs.

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Offline jcrab66

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Re: Microtrack Clip Indicators Constant On
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2005, 06:41:53 PM »
my red clip lights stayed on all night at Lucero but I was running spdif in from the UA5 and I know the signal was not too hot, the big problem was that the show was one big long screeching sound which I have no clue about unless my MT spdif in, UA5 spdif out or my cable is bad....
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Offline fuzn

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Re: Microtrack Clip Indicators Constant On
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2005, 02:19:33 AM »
This is odd. I ran my 4061s in the 1/4 input with the dongle that takes power from the 1/8 and I had to move the levels to about 70% just to get it around clipping. I was REALLY surprised about this, since everyone seems to be clipping easily. The first night I ran it at the lowest setting, thinking it would be plenty... and I had to add 12db in post. I'm guessing it's because i'm getting less power? I don't know, but I can't say i'm complaining at all.

I'm not surprised.. In my measurements, the MT adds a minimum of 14dB of gain on the 1/4" in line mode.  The 4061's have 6 dB less gain than the 4060.   That 14dB will kill your recording if you're getting true line-level.

For Glactic on Friday, I ran 31 dB of gain on the 722.  In a small club, I regularly run 18 dB of gain.  So compared to the min gain on the MT, that would be +4 above min and +13.  For Chris Smithers on Saturday, I ran 55dB of gain on the 722.  This was with Schoeps but the sensitivity is comparable.

I have not extensively tested whether the 4.5v power reduces the output of the 4061's compared to 9v at concert levels. In my initial tests at lower levels, the output levels were similar with 9v and 4.5v.

I did check the voltage on the 1/8" after a show on saturday (with the battery low) and it was still a solid 4.5v. So there does not appear to be dropoff as the bat drains. That was one of my big worries about using the 1/8" to power the DPAs.

Ohhh. Thanks for the info guys. I'm still learning this stuff. Pretty cool! +T to both of you.
DPA 4061s > SP-MicroTrack Dongle > M-Audio MicroTrack

 

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