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Offline aberg

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MP-2 Help!! Pics included...
« on: November 18, 2005, 07:08:21 PM »
I have an MP-2 which I just picked up and it isn't working. I opened it up to inspect and here's what I found. Some strange blue jumpers soldered in place, clearly after the fact. Anybody know what these might be here for?



« Last Edit: November 18, 2005, 07:32:19 PM by aberg83 »

Offline aberg

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Re: MP-2 Help!! Pics included...
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2005, 07:32:27 PM »
bump...

Offline Chris K

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Re: MP-2 Help!! Pics included...
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2005, 07:46:28 PM »
if i were in your position i would send these pix to sound devises service department. they may be able to help. i have never opened my mp-2 up to see inside. maybe that is on all of them but i doubt it.
My gear: JK Labs AKG DVC > M10
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Offline aberg

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Re: MP-2 Help!! Pics included...
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2005, 07:51:33 PM »
I just sent them in an email to SD. Hopefully they can shed some light on this. I'm so tempted to cut the wires and my guess is that full functionality will be restored, however, I'm scared to try it even though I could solder them back together if it didn't work.

Offline Chris K

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Re: MP-2 Help!! Pics included...
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2005, 07:56:01 PM »
did you ask who you bought it from what was up?
My gear: JK Labs AKG DVC > M10
              AKG 460 ck61/ck62/ck63 > DR-70D
             
A live concert to me is exciting because of all the electricity that is generated in the crowd and on stage. It's my favorite part of the business, live concerts.
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Offline aberg

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Re: MP-2 Help!! Pics included...
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2005, 07:56:45 PM »
Yeah, we've been investigating it today.

Offline Chris K

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Re: MP-2 Help!! Pics included...
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2005, 08:12:05 PM »
good luck. report back your findings.

holding my mp-2 now. i wouldnt even know where to start to open this thing up  :P
My gear: JK Labs AKG DVC > M10
              AKG 460 ck61/ck62/ck63 > DR-70D
             
A live concert to me is exciting because of all the electricity that is generated in the crowd and on stage. It's my favorite part of the business, live concerts.
-Elvis Presley

Offline aberg

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Re: MP-2 Help!! Pics included...
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2005, 08:13:16 PM »
good luck. report back your findings.

holding my mp-2 now. i wouldnt even know where to start to open this thing up  :P

It's actually really easy. You just have to take all the screws out on the input side, and then just the 4 corner screws on the output side, and it can then slide open. In fact, if you wouldn't mind looking at it for me, that would be helpful.

Offline poorlyconditioned

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Re: MP-2 Help!! Pics included...
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2005, 08:36:10 PM »
good luck. report back your findings.

holding my mp-2 now. i wouldnt even know where to start to open this thing up  :P

It's actually really easy. You just have to take all the screws out on the input side, and then just the 4 corner screws on the output side, and it can then slide open. In fact, if you wouldn't mind looking at it for me, that would be helpful.

Hey, I agree if you just bought the thing, you should be returning it.  $400 or whatever is a lot of money to be playing with, even for a slut like you :)

Oh, but while you've got it open, would you mind taking some naked photos?  Show us the transformers!

  Richard
Mics: Sennheiser MKE2002 (dummy head), Studio Projects C4, AT825 (unmodded), AT822 franken mic (x2), AT853(hc,c,sc,o), Senn. MKE2, Senn MKE40, Shure MX183/5, CA Cards, homebrew Panasonic and Transsound capsules.
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Offline aberg

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Re: MP-2 Help!! Pics included...
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2005, 08:38:46 PM »
The transformers actually aren't too impressive. They're wrapped in plastic. Just big blocks really on the board. I already put the camera away for now. Maybe I can take some shots a little later.

Offline bdasilva

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Re: MP-2 Help!! Pics included...
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2005, 08:43:50 PM »
The short blue wire goes to ground on the "lm393"... and to a cap.(Ground side?)  The other wire soldered with the glue near each end is standered repair or engineering change type work... Though they look bad I'll bet these are not the problem. You get no lights at all?  internal or external power?
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Offline aberg

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Re: MP-2 Help!! Pics included...
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2005, 08:44:50 PM »
I get the green power LED with internals.... but no meters and nothing from the outputs... can't try external power since I don't yet have the right cable.

Any suggestions?

Offline drewloo

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Re: MP-2 Help!! Pics included...
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2005, 08:49:09 PM »
Here's mine: 

You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline - it helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer.  -FZ

Offline aberg

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Re: MP-2 Help!! Pics included...
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2005, 08:51:16 PM »
thanks... so i guess those blue jumpers aren't originally supposed to be there.

If they were part of a SD repair, then I can see that.

I wish I knew what was going on here.  ???

Offline bdasilva

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Re: MP-2 Help!! Pics included...
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2005, 09:01:27 PM »
the long blue wire looks like a change... The shorter one is  an ugly fix when the 393(s) were changed. The numbers on the 2nd PCB most likely show that the other MP2 is on a later cut of the board and that is likely where the longer wire went.
Cad E300S set.. AT822  AKG C 414 B-XLS/ST  
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Offline drewloo

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Re: MP-2 Help!! Pics included...
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2005, 09:09:28 PM »
Not to bum you out even more, but I was looking at the SD website re: the mp-2 and saw this: 

http://www.sounddevices.com/tech/oscillation.htm

Quote
Oscillation with Transformer-Balanced Inputs
Sound Devices Support Oscillation with Transformer-Balanced Inputs

Problem
Depending on several conditions, chiefly the microphone, the transformer-balanced inputs, such as those on the 302, 442, MixPre, MM-1, MP-1, and MP2, can get into an oscillating condition with a microphone that renders the audio unusable. This oscillation is often described as a "motorboating" condition since this low frequency oscillation sounds like a motor boat.

Cause
Microphones with low rejection to common-mode phantom voltages fluctuate their output level based on the phantom voltage supplied. This variation "wiggles" the bipolar +/-15 volt audio rails -- which subsequently fluctuates the phantom voltage rails, which fluctuates the output level and sets up the oscillation.

Sound Devices field mixers and preamps are very portable products and have compact, efficient power supplies. The AA batteries in the product supply several voltages including, ±15 volts for audio, 48 or 15 V for phantom power, and 5 V for LED's. The power supply is suitable for most microphones, but is susceptible to oscillation with microphones prone to drawing current based on output level.
Remedy

With microphones prone to this condition, several things can be done to minimize and/or prevent the condition.

    * Engage the high-pass filter.
    * Use 48 V phantom even if not required.
    * Power the microphone(s) from an external phantom supply.
    * Power the mixer from an external, DC power supply.

Additional capacitance in the mixer would also help the condition, however, these units have the most capacitance that will fit into their chassis.

The same microphone that exhibits this condition with the MixPre or MP-2 may not exhibit the problem with another preamp with a larger phantom supply with more capacitance.
Microphones Know to Exhibit this Problem

    * AKG Blue Line Series
    * AT 4073
    * Sanken CUB-01, CS-1

I highly doubt your blue wires relate to this but I see that you're running Blue Lines so I'd thought I'd mention it in case you experience this problem in the future.  Good luck, bro.

You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline - it helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer.  -FZ

Offline L Ron Hoover

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Re: MP-2 Help!! Pics included...
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2005, 09:18:13 PM »
I sold said MP2 to the person who sold it to you. It worked perfectly fine when I sold it to him. (I taped Les Claypool the Saturday night before it was shipped on Monday) It was sent in to Sound Devices two years ago because it wasn't powering off of the external jack (I had to use AA batteries for one show and it worked fine) I sent it in the following week, and they fixed that problem, and tightened, or replaced the gain pots. (Obviously that jumper cable had something to do with the fix) I always used the external power jack, so I didn't think to have it modified for rechargeables at the time. Have you read the PDF on how to operate it? There is a switch off/bright/blinding for the level lights. Is phantom on? Have you eliminated all other possibilities. This thing worked great when it left my hands. It was packaged very well when I shipped it, and I assume the person who sold it to you did so as well.

I ran MG300s into it.


It sounds like the above post may be the problem. I don't mean to sound like I'm busting your chops. Sorry if it comes off that way.  I just know that the thing worked great for me.

Lee
« Last Edit: November 18, 2005, 09:23:38 PM by L Ron Hoover »

Offline aberg

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Re: MP-2 Help!! Pics included...
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2005, 09:21:46 PM »
I sold said MP2 to the person who sold it to you. It worked perfectly fine when I sold it to him. (I taped Les Claypool the Saturday night before it was shipped on Monday) It was sent in to Sound Devices two years ago because it wasn't powering off of the external jack (I had to use AA batteries for one show and it worked fine) I sent it in the following week, and they fixed that problem, and tightened, or replaced the gain pots. (Obviously that jumper cable had something to do with the fix) I always used the external power jack, so I didn't think to have it modified for rechargeables at the time. Have you read the PDF on how to operate it? There is a switch off/bright/blinding for the level lights. Is phantom on? Have you eliminated all other possibilities. This thing worked great when it left my hands. It was packaged very well when I shipped it, and I assume the person who sold it to you did so as well.

I have tried every possible setting. I'm not really a newbie anymore and have a general good understanding of how this type of gear works. As far as I can tell, it's not working properly.

After the external power jack problem was fixed, did you ever try running it off AA internals? Maybe their fix caused it to stop working on internals. The person who sold it to me, however, says that it tested ok using energizer lithium AAs. I've been testing it using regular duracells.

This is a frustrating problem because I don't really know what could have happened here.

Thanks for your input though. It's good to find out that those blue jumpers are supposed to be there.

Offline Chris K

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Re: MP-2 Help!! Pics included...
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2005, 09:24:47 PM »
re oscillation...i ran 391's with the mp-2 for a long time and never had a problem





My gear: JK Labs AKG DVC > M10
              AKG 460 ck61/ck62/ck63 > DR-70D
             
A live concert to me is exciting because of all the electricity that is generated in the crowd and on stage. It's my favorite part of the business, live concerts.
-Elvis Presley

Offline aberg

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Re: MP-2 Help!! Pics included...
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2005, 09:26:37 PM »
Yeah, I don't hear any sort of oscillation with it, rather I don't hear anything at all  >:(

Offline L Ron Hoover

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Re: MP-2 Help!! Pics included...
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2005, 09:26:59 PM »
Did you connect everything before powering it? I'm pretty sure I had used alkalines in it for opening bands to conserve power in my SLA as well. Not to sound like an ass again, but you do realize that the power switch goes one way for external power, and one way for internal.

Offline aberg

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Re: MP-2 Help!! Pics included...
« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2005, 09:30:59 PM »
Yeah, I'm aware of all the features on the mp-2.

Don't worry, you won't offend me. I know sometimes people overlook really obvious mistakes.

I'm fairly convinced I have everything set up properly. Perhaps it is an issue with oscillation and this "unusable audio" is just fairly inaudible.

I suppose I should wait for the external cable to arrive so I can test it with an external power source. That is one of the listed remedies. It is likely Sound Devices would find nothing wrong with the unit, I imagine.

Offline aberg

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Re: MP-2 Help!! Pics included...
« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2005, 09:31:26 PM »
re oscillation...i ran 391's with the mp-2 for a long time and never had a problem

Did you ever use AA internals with it successfully?

Offline Chris K

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Re: MP-2 Help!! Pics included...
« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2005, 09:33:18 PM »
make sure the tape return switch on the front is not in the locked position. it should be in the middle. if it is engaged and nothing is plugged into the tape return input (which is actually on the output side of the mp2) then you will hear nothing

with mics plugged in and phantom on do you hear sound with a headphones from the headphone jack
My gear: JK Labs AKG DVC > M10
              AKG 460 ck61/ck62/ck63 > DR-70D
             
A live concert to me is exciting because of all the electricity that is generated in the crowd and on stage. It's my favorite part of the business, live concerts.
-Elvis Presley

Offline Chris K

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Re: MP-2 Help!! Pics included...
« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2005, 09:34:45 PM »
re oscillation...i ran 391's with the mp-2 for a long time and never had a problem

Did you ever use AA internals with it successfully?

yep. positive end goes in first. if you are getting the power light than the thing is getting power.
My gear: JK Labs AKG DVC > M10
              AKG 460 ck61/ck62/ck63 > DR-70D
             
A live concert to me is exciting because of all the electricity that is generated in the crowd and on stage. It's my favorite part of the business, live concerts.
-Elvis Presley

Offline L Ron Hoover

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Re: MP-2 Help!! Pics included...
« Reply #25 on: November 18, 2005, 09:38:00 PM »
make sure the tape return switch on the front is not in the locked position. it should be in the middle. if it is engaged and nothing is plugged into the tape return input (which is actually on the output side of the mp2) then you will hear nothing

with mics plugged in and phantom on do you hear sound with a headphones from the headphone jack


I'm willing to bet that's it.

Offline aberg

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Re: MP-2 Help!! Pics included...
« Reply #26 on: November 18, 2005, 09:38:28 PM »
make sure the tape return switch on the front is not in the locked position. it should be in the middle. if it is engaged and nothing is plugged into the tape return input (which is actually on the output side of the mp2) then you will hear nothing

with mics plugged in and phantom on do you hear sound with a headphones from the headphone jack

Ok, the tape return swith only has two positions, to the left, and then centre. I have it in the centre, and headphones on, phantom on.. mics plugged in... gain up, headphone level up, and nothing... no oscillation sound, no sound of any kind.

Offline aberg

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Re: MP-2 Help!! Pics included...
« Reply #27 on: November 18, 2005, 09:42:00 PM »
Ok, reading the manual, it says the tape return has 3 setting, locking left, centre, and then momentary right. I can see how that works now. In any case, the switch on mine has always been in the middle position, and still no sound, no level meters, etc.

Offline aberg

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Re: MP-2 Help!! Pics included...
« Reply #28 on: November 18, 2005, 10:08:37 PM »
I think I will try two things before sending it in, powering from external source, and running it with a different set of mics. Hopefully it's fine.

Offline larrysellers

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Re: MP-2 Help!! Pics included...
« Reply #29 on: November 18, 2005, 10:20:29 PM »
That mp2 has really been a p.i.t.a. for you. A new gear purchase is something you should be able to feel happy...and maybe a little guilty ::) for spending the cash. +T for your troubles.

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Re: MP-2 Help!! Pics included...
« Reply #30 on: November 18, 2005, 10:33:24 PM »
Thanks, and a +t to you as well. I will post my results on my tests as I try them.

Offline jeromejello

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Re: MP-2 Help!! Pics included...
« Reply #31 on: November 19, 2005, 11:30:36 AM »
That mp2 has really been a p.i.t.a. for you. A new gear purchase is something you should be able to feel happy...and maybe a little guilty ::) for spending the cash. +T for your troubles.

word... i am feeling the frustration with a my new mics... one didnt really work, so its headed to akg... nothing more of a kick in the groin when you dump money into new toys and the shit dont work right.... even if its operator error  :-*
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Offline aberg

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Re: MP-2 Help!! Pics included...
« Reply #32 on: November 19, 2005, 12:40:35 PM »
Ok, this unit runs fine on external power.

The power LED is not on, but I'm getting levels and everything.

I'm wondering if I should still send this in to Sound Devices?

Offline L Ron Hoover

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Re: MP-2 Help!! Pics included...
« Reply #33 on: November 19, 2005, 10:30:11 PM »
Hey. Now that you mention it, the power light never did work on that thing, and I never even realized it. (I guess because I never saw it on in three or four years of owning it) Sorry if I caused any confusion.


Lee

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Re: MP-2 Help!! Pics included...
« Reply #34 on: November 20, 2005, 02:23:58 AM »
Ok, that's good to know. Since I was under the impression (obviously) that I was buying a 100% functional unit, I will send this in to Sound Devices for a full repair at the seller's expense.

Thanks.

Offline L Ron Hoover

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Re: MP-2 Help!! Pics included...
« Reply #35 on: November 20, 2005, 09:30:17 AM »
I honestly wouldn't worry about the power LED. The thing works fine.

Offline aberg

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Re: MP-2 Help!! Pics included...
« Reply #36 on: November 20, 2005, 09:35:32 AM »
I honestly wouldn't worry about the power LED. The thing works fine.

Nope, doesn't work off internal batteries.

 

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