Topic: looking to upgrade mics.. any suggestions

[GOLEAFSGO]

i am going to upgrade my mics finally.  i upgraded my HiMD recorder to a PDM670, and also just picked up a V3,  I am runnning Studio Project C4's.   A good friend of mine has suggested MBHO mics.  I would like to keep the price below $1500.00

Any thoughts.

[thegreatgumbino]

You need to be more specific in what you are looking to get.  You also need to spend some time deciding what mics your ears like.  I'll refer you back to here:   

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=55066.msg719813

[Todd R]

Yep, trust your own ears.  That said though, I'd really recommend jumping on Shaggy's pair of AKG 480s with the ck61 card caps and ck63 hyper caps.  The 480>V3 combo is excellent, and for $1250 you'd be hard pressed to come up with a nicer mic setup, esp since you'll have both cards and hypers (and some of the very best small diameter hypers at that).

No affiliation with Shaggy, but I've had some excellent transactions with him in the past and would definitely recommend him.

[dnsacks]

what don't you like about the c4's sound?  What is your intended use (do you need stealthy mics with active capsules or are full bodied mics OK)?

[ehren]

Honestly, I would stay away from MBHOs for taping loud PAs. If you are taping acoustic or bluegrass type music then they are incredible. At high SPLs they have a midrange smear that tends to make them sound distant to my ears. The sound becomes less than smooth in these condtions. Mics that I think easily outperform them are Peluso's, Akg 480s, MGs, km184s ect...There are just a lot of better choices in many different flavors and prices all producing excellent results. Often what I've found is that the quality of my tapes are often more dependent on the source than the mic.

I ran the MBHOs for 2 years and am glad I switched. Listen to some tapes, I find the 480s a bit bright with the V3, but that is my ears.

[Brian Skalinder]

what don't you like about the c4's sound?

This is a really key point that I think gets overlooked, or at least understated, when people are upgrading gear.  I think it's important to make gear change decisions based on the sonic characteristics which one is unhappy and happy for one's own gear, as well as others' gear based on recordings to which one has listened.  I get the sense a lot of people upgrade gear for the sake of the upgrade, without first identifying what they want to get out of it.  This is a surefire way to spend a lot of money and cycle through a lot of gear.  Of course, that's part of the fun!  And to some extent one has to run the gear to really know how it sounds for their ears.

Anyway...consider trying to figure out what you do or don't like about your current gear.  If you've not run the V3 much with your C4s, run your C4s with it for a while to get a feel for what you do and don't like about that combo.  Then, you're in a position to make an informed decision and gather helpful replies from experienced tapers.

[ehren]

what don't you like about the c4's sound?

This is a really key point that I think gets overlooked, or at least understated, when people are upgrading gear.  I think it's important to make gear change decisions based on the sonic characteristics which one is unhappy and happy for one's own gear, as well as others' gear based on recordings to which one has listened.  I get the sense a lot of people upgrade gear for the sake of the upgrade, without first identifying what they want to get out of it.  This is a surefire way to spend a lot of money and cycle through a lot of gear.  Of course, that's part of the fun!  And to some extent one has to run the gear to really know how it sounds for their ears.

Anyway...consider trying to figure out what you do or don't like about your current gear.  If you've not run the V3 much with your C4s, run your C4s with it for a while to get a feel for what you do and don't like about that combo.  Then, you're in a position to make an informed decision and gather helpful replies from experienced tapers.

Well stated for sure. I went through that cycle and ended up with an incredibly expensive rig that I did not like the sound of at all. I spent wayyy more money than I needed to. Often it seems we go for the latest and greatest without really listening.

Along those lines I think it needs to be mentioned that the source is often the great deciding factor in all of this. You can't turn crap into gold and often a very detailed rig will sound bad in a poor acoustic environment. The c4s are fine mics capable of producing excellent results when used properly. There is a status thing that goes on with tapers, we feel good when our gear is expensive, but are our tapes really any better as a result?

[nickgregory]

There is a status thing that goes on with tapers, we feel good when our gear is expensive, but are our tapes really any better as a result?

I know I dont feel good that I spent so much damn money on my rig, it just so happens that is what it took to get the sound that I wanted....I think the status thing as you call it is overblown....most of us wouldnt spend $$$$ on a rig if we could get the results that we wanted personally at a price point that was significantly less

[Bdifr78]

There is a status thing that goes on with tapers, we feel good when our gear is expensive, but are our tapes really any better as a result?

I know I dont feel good that I spent so much damn money on my rig, it just so happens that is what it took to get the sound that I wanted....I think the status thing as you call it is overblown....most of us wouldnt spend $$$$ on a rig if we could get the results that we wanted personally at a price point that was significantly less

It's definately a combination of both.  there is some status, but mostly I think we are trying to find a better sound.  However I do often think that we have no real idea what we are looking to achieve when we upgrade.  That being said....

There is so much you can do with $1500.  I personally think that with a V3 you do need to go to something better than C4s.  I ran C4s to start and I love those freakin mics, but you can get a much better sound for $1500.  If you are looking SD and want multiple cap options for your $1500 I can honestly say I can't think of a much better buy than the 480s with 61 and 63 caps.  Though for $1500 you can do what I did and get some km140s with out the active cables for around $1100-1200, if you have no need for low profile. 

I am currently looking to add to my mic collection so I have been finding myself listening to a lot of samples.  You would be surprised that often the mics that everyone tells you to go for or ones that for some reason you really covet don't sound the way you want them too.  Do a bunch of listening, but keep in mind that often the situation dictates everything.  I have some recordings that I made with my C4/UA5 combo that smoke some recordings I have made with my 140/V3 combo.  But the vast majority of the time my new rig destroys my old one.  Food for thought.

[ehren]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that expensive rigs don't produce great sound, and aren't generally better than an inexpensive rig. I was simply more referring to the original tone of the post. You have to listen to different mics before you can decide what you like. Not doing so could have you end up with an semi-expensive pair of mics that you don't really like. That is what happened to me when I bought my first pair of MBHOs. That being said I think there are some lower cost options today, especially in the way of recorders and ADs/pre-amps. Hell, a 722 is really a bargain if you ask me. Think about what a v2/ad1000/dap1 would have cost 7 yrs ago.

[grider]

status equipment is way overvalued in my opinion; I have never owned the really inexpensive equipment, nor have I ever owned the super expensive equipment, because there is no point in owning expensive gear you cannot stand the sound of, as Nick Gregory alluded to; some combinations of gear produce masterpiece recordings in a few environments and shit everywhere else; some combinations of gear never produce masterpieces but never produce shit recordings either; the key, and the quandry, is to find the gear that does a bit of both and is within your budget; I personally think your mics will be your first and foremost determining factor in your satisfaction with your rig, and if you do not like the way your mics sound you will never be happy with your rig; my own experience was that I bought 480's because I like the crisp and clear sound they produce, pretty close to the sound in the venue; but I paired them with first a MiniMe, but I did not like that combination, so I tried again with a V3, and again I still liked the mics but I did not like that combination either, so I tried again with a UA5 and wella, everthing fit, very good combination that produces a sound that is cleaner than the MiniMe and less sterile and clean than the V3; so, as the others have said above, listen, choose a sound you like, then carefully pair gear around your mics that will produce the sound you seek; that said, I would also suggest that you consider buying Shaggy's 480's, I have used them on-stage, at stage-lip, middle of room, FOB, balcony, and everywhere else you could think to tape from, and have had great results when used properly; ultimately its totally your call, but as someone who burned through a lot of money and lost money on just about every piece of gear I sold, choose carefully, and trust your ears; your ears, and others' comments about what rigs they do not like the sound of and what gear does not produce good recordings will be your best source of guidance (in this regard there has been much debate about what mics sound poor when paired with the MiniMe and lately what mics sound poor when paired with the 722/744), good luck

[GOLEAFSGO]

the status thing is not my intention..  i just figure I should have a rig that will at least produce a quality sound, or why else carry arounf all that gear..?  I will stay with the C4 > V3 > 670,  combo until I think I need to change.  Thanks for all the imput and helpful thoughts.  Any one here going to be at WSP NYE run in ATL?  If so let me know..  Like to meet as many tapers as I can..

Thanks for the input on the MBHO's.  A friend of mine really loves them, but I need to make sure I like them!!

cheer,s

chris

[ehren]

Hey,

I'll be at WSP nye, we should meet up, do you have taper tix?

Anyway, you may find that you love the MBHO sound, but it's always best to listen to make sure.

[GOLEAFSGO]

Yeah..  sec. 109 row GG..  Pretty sure it's and open TS..  What are you running that night? 

are you going to the ROXY show?  sux we can't record!  all for charity.!!

chris

[jhirte]

480's w/ck61 and ck63 = tought to beat (and that sale looks like great deal btw!).

I finally ran my 61's lastnight for the first time in 7 months since I've owned the 63's.. tough to beat the versatility of the 460/480 line w/interchangable caps, etc.. not to mention the reasonable price and excellent sound.

If you have a show with mult sources, its easier to compare sounds of diff mics - but alwasys good idea to listen to as many diff mics as you can before commiting to something. I'm sure you'll be happy with whatever you end up with.

Good luck!