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Author Topic: 60V vs. 48V phantom power in schoeps capsules Nbox vs. Sonosax  (Read 3353 times)

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Offline gngrbrdman13

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60V vs. 48V phantom power in schoeps capsules Nbox vs. Sonosax
« on: December 19, 2005, 04:37:29 PM »
Not sure if this thread should go here or in pre amp section......

A schoeps capsule requires 60V phantom power to operate at full sensitivity and dynamic range.

A CMC6 microphone body does a DC to DC conversion where 48V are converted to 60V to bring the capsule to manufacturers specs for full sensitivity. 

A VMS pre amp provides 60V of power at the microphone capsule when used with a KCY/KC5 system and no CMC6 bodies.  This would have to be considered the 'gold standard' when powering schoeps 'actively'....anyone want to have that argument?

The sonosax may be modified with a 5 pin (I think its 5) 'active' system that will enable the sonosax to provide the 48V phantom power to the capsules.  48V phantom....what?  Thats right.  This results in that flat non existant transition between all frequencies recording that just doesnt sound "LIVE"

An Nbox provides 60V phantom power at the capsule for full dynamic range and musical sensitivity using cables + schoeps collettes and no CMC 6 bodies.  This pre amp has smooth transitioning between frequencies, high resolution and accentuates the mk4s perfectly.

Some 'all knowing' people on this site would have you falsely believe that a sonosax with the Lemo mod is the best option for stealth recording.  Its definitely the most expensive.  Just because their ears are dead and they enjoy a flat sound along with a flat beer dont let your live recording experience get flat too. 

Somebody out there probably does a mod to obtain 60V at the capsule I dont know.  But how many damn mods does one need to do to get a sonolax to power schoeps capsules properly...The sonosax was obviously not designed by the manufacturer to run an 'active' setup, the Nbox was absolutely designed from inception to do just that.

When the Nbox is coupled with the R1 for live recording it really pulls some great recordings.  This thing we call spitty.....which I admit I have heard on some Nbox recordings....I have also heard it in on other pre amps too when the people are using the wrong combination of capsules/pre amp for the situation they found themselves in at the venue.  My point is that where a person is sitting in a venue makes an incredible impact on the sound of his or her recordings using a particular capsule/pre amp combo.  The Nbox when coupled with the mk4s or 41s (only in correct situations not my recommendation for an all around stealth capsule) and  a nice a/d like the ad2k or the R1 and not that infernal SBM, sounds just the way you wanted it to....sometimes better.

Can any 4022/3 DPA tapers tell us what the requirements for voltage at the capsule are from DPA?  Just curious.

Happy Taping!

dd

Offline Nick Graham

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Re: 60V vs. 48V phantom power in schoeps capsules Nbox vs. Sonosax
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2005, 04:42:19 PM »
Dude, seriously what are you trying to prove?

Some, such as yourself, prefer the sound of the NBox. Others, like me, like the Sonosax.

All you're doing is presenting facts to back up in opinion...which still makes it an opinion.

Give it a rest...
Right now nothing...in the past: Schoeps CMC6, AKG 480, AKG 460, AKG 414, MBHO 603a, Neumann KM100, ADK TL>Schoeps MK4, Schoeps MK2, Schoeps MK41, AKG ck61, AKG ck62, AKG ck63, Neumann AK40, Neumann AK50, MBHO ka200>Lunatec V2, Lunatec V3, Apogee Mini-Me, Oade M148, Oade M248, Sound Devices MP2, Sonosax SXM2>Sony (mod)SBM1, Apogee AD500>D7, D8, D100, M1, R1, R4, R09, iRiver HP120, Microtrack

Offline Craig T

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Re: 60V vs. 48V phantom power in schoeps capsules Nbox vs. Sonosax
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2005, 04:46:57 PM »
A CMC6 microphone body does a DC to DC conversion where 48V are converted to 60V to bring the capsule to manufacturers specs for full sensitivity. 

A VMS pre amp provides 60V of power at the microphone capsule when used with a KCY/KC5 system and no CMC6 bodies.  This would have to be considered the 'gold standard' when powering schoeps 'actively'....anyone want to have that argument?


I'm fairly certain the VMS box would also use DC>DC converters to provide the 60V (from 9V internal or 6-15V external), so I'm not sure that factor alone would make it the "gold standard" for Schoeps actives.  Interesting, this is the first I've heard of the 60V power requirement.
Schoeps cmc6/4v / Line Audio CM3, OM1 / ADK A51 / Church Audio CA-14
Naiant Tinybox v2.2 / NBox(P) / Apogee Mini-MP / Church Audio ST9200 / CA-UGLY
Sony PCM-M10 / Tascam DR-70D

Offline gngrbrdman13

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Re: 60V vs. 48V phantom power in schoeps capsules Nbox vs. Sonosax
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2005, 04:48:53 PM »
Dude, seriously what are you trying to prove?

Some, such as yourself, prefer the sound of the NBox. Others, like me, like the Sonosax.

All you're doing is presenting facts to back up in opinion...which still makes it an opinion.

Give it a rest...

not trying to prove anything just stating the........

Facts are simple and facts are straight
Facts are lazy and facts are late
Facts all come with points of view
Facts don't do what I want them to
Facts just twist the truth around
Facts are living turned inside out
Facts are getting the best of them
Facts are nothing on the face of things
Facts don't stain the furniture
Facts go out and slam the door
Facts are written all over your face
Facts continue to change their shape

Fact is....with the schoeps the Nbox sounds better than the Sax!

Offline gngrbrdman13

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Re: 60V vs. 48V phantom power in schoeps capsules Nbox vs. Sonosax
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2005, 04:52:08 PM »
A CMC6 microphone body does a DC to DC conversion where 48V are converted to 60V to bring the capsule to manufacturers specs for full sensitivity. 

A VMS pre amp provides 60V of power at the microphone capsule when used with a KCY/KC5 system and no CMC6 bodies.  This would have to be considered the 'gold standard' when powering schoeps 'actively'....anyone want to have that argument?


I'm fairly certain the VMS box would also use DC>DC converters to provide the 60V (from 9V internal or 6-15V external), so I'm not sure that factor alone would make it the "gold standard" for Schoeps actives.  Interesting, this is the first I've heard of the 60V power requirement.


Sorry I didnt mean for that to be misleading.  There are many reasons the VMS is the 'gold standard' for active setups.  This 60V powering at the capsule has a large impact on the responsiveness of the mics.

Offline Nick Graham

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Re: 60V vs. 48V phantom power in schoeps capsules Nbox vs. Sonosax
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2005, 04:52:51 PM »
Fact is....with the schoeps the Nbox sounds better than the Sax!

To you

Right now nothing...in the past: Schoeps CMC6, AKG 480, AKG 460, AKG 414, MBHO 603a, Neumann KM100, ADK TL>Schoeps MK4, Schoeps MK2, Schoeps MK41, AKG ck61, AKG ck62, AKG ck63, Neumann AK40, Neumann AK50, MBHO ka200>Lunatec V2, Lunatec V3, Apogee Mini-Me, Oade M148, Oade M248, Sound Devices MP2, Sonosax SXM2>Sony (mod)SBM1, Apogee AD500>D7, D8, D100, M1, R1, R4, R09, iRiver HP120, Microtrack

Online gewwang

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Re: 60V vs. 48V phantom power in schoeps capsules Nbox vs. Sonosax
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2005, 04:55:55 PM »
Fluffy mother just called and wanted me to tell you to shut your hole.

If you can't stay sober enough to prevent overloading the tape, what's the significance of your stats anyway?

 :)

Offline gngrbrdman13

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Re: 60V vs. 48V phantom power in schoeps capsules Nbox vs. Sonosax
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2005, 04:56:58 PM »
A CMC6 microphone body does a DC to DC conversion where 48V are converted to 60V to bring the capsule to manufacturers specs for full sensitivity. 

A VMS pre amp provides 60V of power at the microphone capsule when used with a KCY/KC5 system and no CMC6 bodies.  This would have to be considered the 'gold standard' when powering schoeps 'actively'....anyone want to have that argument?


I'm fairly certain the VMS box would also use DC>DC converters to provide the 60V (from 9V internal or 6-15V external), so I'm not sure that factor alone would make it the "gold standard" for Schoeps actives.  Interesting, this is the first I've heard of the 60V power requirement.


And.....The VMS provides 60V at the capsule directly.  No need for conversion the amp puts out 60V a Sonosax with the Lemo Mod puts out 48V at the capsule.

A V2 for example would put out 48V phantom a CMC6 body then does the DC to DC conversion.

Offline gngrbrdman13

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Re: 60V vs. 48V phantom power in schoeps capsules Nbox vs. Sonosax
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2005, 04:59:38 PM »
Fluffy mother just called and wanted me to tell you to shut your hole.

If you can't stay sober enough to prevent overloading the tape, what's the significance of your stats anyway?

 :)

So many times gewang I have pulled great recordings.  You know I just got the R1 wait 'til you hear the ones that went well.   SUCKA

Depeche Mud

I am still laughing about this one....hilarious.  Moke dont you have some people to repremand for not hoarding their tapes or something like that. 

Offline Nick Graham

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Re: 60V vs. 48V phantom power in schoeps capsules Nbox vs. Sonosax
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2005, 04:59:49 PM »
Regardless, your whole point should be diregarded after reading this statement:

a nice a/d like the ad2k or the R1

Yeah, a legendary $1200 external 24/96 A/D converter and a $400 Edirol product....great comparison.
Right now nothing...in the past: Schoeps CMC6, AKG 480, AKG 460, AKG 414, MBHO 603a, Neumann KM100, ADK TL>Schoeps MK4, Schoeps MK2, Schoeps MK41, AKG ck61, AKG ck62, AKG ck63, Neumann AK40, Neumann AK50, MBHO ka200>Lunatec V2, Lunatec V3, Apogee Mini-Me, Oade M148, Oade M248, Sound Devices MP2, Sonosax SXM2>Sony (mod)SBM1, Apogee AD500>D7, D8, D100, M1, R1, R4, R09, iRiver HP120, Microtrack

Offline gngrbrdman13

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Re: 60V vs. 48V phantom power in schoeps capsules Nbox vs. Sonosax
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2005, 05:01:38 PM »
Regardless, your whole point should be diregarded after reading this statement:

a nice a/d like the ad2k or the R1

Yeah, a legendary $1200 external 24/96 A/D converter and a $400 Edirol product....great comparison.

Dude,  I was talking for stealth or for open.  not comparing my ad2k with my edirol.  I was trying to compare the edirol to the SBM.  Thank you for allowing me the opp to clarify.

Offline Craig T

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Re: 60V vs. 48V phantom power in schoeps capsules Nbox vs. Sonosax
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2005, 05:03:51 PM »
I'm fairly certain the VMS box would also use DC>DC converters to provide the 60V (from 9V internal or 6-15V external), so I'm not sure that factor alone would make it the "gold standard" for Schoeps actives.  Interesting, this is the first I've heard of the 60V power requirement.

And.....The VMS provides 60V at the capsule directly.  No need for conversion the amp puts out 60V a Sonosax with the Lemo Mod puts out 48V at the capsule.

A V2 for example would put out 48V phantom a CMC6 body then does the DC to DC conversion.

Sure, the VMS might show 60V at the capsule, but its creating it from a 9V source - hence my reasoning it must have its own DC>DC converters internal.  Why would this be any better than the DC>DC used in the preamp to provide 48V and then in the cmc6 to provide 60V?
Schoeps cmc6/4v / Line Audio CM3, OM1 / ADK A51 / Church Audio CA-14
Naiant Tinybox v2.2 / NBox(P) / Apogee Mini-MP / Church Audio ST9200 / CA-UGLY
Sony PCM-M10 / Tascam DR-70D

Offline gngrbrdman13

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Re: 60V vs. 48V phantom power in schoeps capsules Nbox vs. Sonosax
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2005, 05:05:22 PM »
In theory you aren't providing the capsule 60V of phantom power, that is what the mic body or "batterbox" is taking as the input.  I imagine there are lots of different voltages actually making it to capsules of various mics after they pass thru the microphone body. 

I think your statement is a useless.

Throw out some actual measured results and sound samples if you want to engage in a productive technical discussion.

Hey genius.....we are talking about not using bodies here.  Also do us all a favor try a course in spelling and grammer.

The capsules, according to schoeps need 60V at the capsule to provide for maximum sensitivity.  You wanna argue with them?  Go ahead....

http://www.mailbox@schoeps.de

http://www.schoeps.de

Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: 60V vs. 48V phantom power in schoeps capsules Nbox vs. Sonosax
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2005, 09:52:19 AM »
The Lemosax feeding 48v to the MKx caps, if it in fact only outputs 48v (I don't believe anyone here has measured it), is a non-issue - per Schoeps tech support.  Post here:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=56174.0
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