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Author Topic: Friendly warning about CSBs and JB3s  (Read 2327 times)

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Offline dklein

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Friendly warning about CSBs and JB3s
« on: August 22, 2003, 04:47:42 PM »
...they don't work.  The 1/8" plug on my CSBs (purch. Nov 2001) has a rather wide barrel that is too large to completely fit into the recessed input on the Jukebox.  It's hard to explain but if you have one, you'll see what I mean.  It's really just a combo of the the 2 designs.  I've only had it happen on the Jukebox, but at the same time, every other 1/8" plug I tested on the Jukebox did make a proper connection.

I'm sorry to say it took me 2 failed attempts to figure it out.  
First time I used line in, without gain (which admittedly was dumb because the CSBs purposely have low output for brickwalling Sony DAT preamps).  Levels were low but I'd heard that the JB3 preamp wasn't so great so I figured I'd go line in and boost it later.  The sound was crappy and thin but I thought it might be some side effect of having to apply ridiculous amplitude adjustment.

Second time, thought I'd avoid problem #1 by using the JB3 preamp to hit some decent levels.  Got great levels.  Recording sounds like shit.  I can duplicate the sound by taking a source thru 1/8" and pulling it out partway.

A little more playing around revealed something very strange happening to the sound because of the partial insertion.  I'm not quite sure what contacts are made on a partial insertion but I can hear both mics in both channels and a paste invert of one channel perfectly cancels out the other channel - in other words, mono.  But not nice sounding mono.

The solution - change the plug on the CSBs (don't much care for that cheezy gold crap anyways).  And yeah...I'm one of those people who would respond to this by saying "you should have tested it out" so no need  ::)

Now if someone can tell me how to decode my lifeless mono recording back into a real one, that would be useful information - I really wanted those shows! (SARS concert in Toronto w/Kathleen Edwards, Flaming Lips, Guess Who, Rush, AC/DC, Stones and then Jayhawks/Kathleen Edwards at Molson Amphitheatre...in case any else did get them)

Sorry for the cross post if you're on those 'other' lists.

david
KM 184 > V2 > R4
older recording gear: UA-5  / emagic A62 / laptop / JB3 / CSB / AD20 / Sharp MT-90 / Sony MDS-JE510
Playback: Pioneer DV-578 > Lucid DA 9624 >many funny little british boxes > Linn Isobarik PMS

Offline zhianosatch

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Re:Friendly warning about CSBs and JB3s
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2003, 04:53:47 PM »
OUCH! Here's an idea if you're in a pinch... make or purchase yourself a li'l stereo mini adapter for the future, unless you want to hack the CSB cable...

Offline dklein

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Re:Friendly warning about CSBs and JB3s
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2003, 05:39:08 PM »
OUCH! Here's an idea if you're in a pinch... make or purchase yourself a li'l stereo mini adapter for the future, unless you want to hack the CSB cable...

Ouch is right!  CSBs actually come with stereo mini output.  Unless you're suggesting one of those extension cables with male on one end and female on the other, which would probably do the trick.  Regardless, I ain't escared of soldering some connectors.  Off it comes!
KM 184 > V2 > R4
older recording gear: UA-5  / emagic A62 / laptop / JB3 / CSB / AD20 / Sharp MT-90 / Sony MDS-JE510
Playback: Pioneer DV-578 > Lucid DA 9624 >many funny little british boxes > Linn Isobarik PMS

Offline InfiniteOhms

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Re:Friendly warning about CSBs and JB3s
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2003, 10:39:50 PM »
another friendly warning .... unless your REALY REALY in a pinch, dont try to run mics>Jb3 .... the hardware is ment to handle line gain and i'm guessing it just pumps extra power through the same thing .... long story short it has a INCREDIBLY high noise floor. I'm guessing the CSB's have a battery box or some such?

anyway .... thanks for the warning.
ADK A-51s LE's > Oade W-mod UA-5 > Laptop // Sony ECM-MS907 > Sony MZ-R700  My LMA tapes

Offline dklein

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Re:Friendly warning about CSBs and JB3s
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2003, 04:22:25 AM »
for Infinite Ohms...there is a mic pre in the JB3 - it's just limited before it switches into straight digital gain.

Analog: 24 dB of gain in 3 dB steps, then
Digital:  24 to 40 dB?  can't remember the top end

Here's the chip http://www.semiconductors.philips.com/cgi-bin/pldb/pip/UDA1380HN

CSBs have a battery box - the mics are isolated even if you plug into something with phantom power (which the JB3 does not).

I won't make a habit of it but the UA-5 just ain't that stealthable.  It was the JB3 or minidisc.

BTW, the connector is gold (or at least gold in color).  But it looks pretty cheap regardless.

david
KM 184 > V2 > R4
older recording gear: UA-5  / emagic A62 / laptop / JB3 / CSB / AD20 / Sharp MT-90 / Sony MDS-JE510
Playback: Pioneer DV-578 > Lucid DA 9624 >many funny little british boxes > Linn Isobarik PMS

Offline zhianosatch

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Re:Friendly warning about CSBs and JB3s
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2003, 08:17:49 AM »
I would have gone with the MD regardless...

Offline wbaldwin

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Re:Friendly warning about CSBs and JB3s
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2003, 03:59:59 PM »
For what its worth, the miniplug on the SP bat. box that I'm using with the AT853 seems to fit fine....

I did bust out the micrometer before I plugged them in there, to be sure that the size was corect though.....  I think the tip meassured .137"......

Offline mizary

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Re:Friendly warning about CSBs and JB3s
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2003, 10:04:06 AM »
Hey wbaldwin,

What setting on the jb3 do you use to record with the at853's > sp batt box?

Line-in or Mic-in?  ?dB

With the latest firmware (not sure of what old ones did)

Mic-in allows you to set a gain of 0dB to +48dB (it defaults at +24dB)

With line-in the range is -12dB to +12dB with 0dB as te default.

I recently taped radiohead (my first recording ever) with this same setup, and recorded at +9dB through mic-in.  I never even realized you could apply gain after choosing line-in.

What is the difference between min-in +9dB and line-in +9dB???  Anything?

--mizary
Try to imagine all life as you know it stopping instantaneously and every molecule in your body exploding at the speed of light.

Offline wbaldwin

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Re:Friendly warning about CSBs and JB3s
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2003, 11:01:48 PM »
I just picked up all of the pieces of this rig, and have only used it once at Jimmy Cliff.

I used the line-in set-up, and had the gain set at +5 most of the evening, while standing ~35-40 ft. DFC.....  Seems like it came out pretty good.

I'm not positive about this, but I'm pretty sure that you want to use line-in, b/c the signal to noise ratio suffers pretty badly when the Mic-in setting is used, especially when the gain is set to +24 and above.  I know that I've seen this stuff addressed, but I'm not sure where.

Anyone else have more insight on this?

After this first experience, the only real potential problem I see with this rig is when you get into a situation where the band is VERY LOUD.  Seems like all you can do is move back, b/c the negative gain adjustment meerly removes data....  Am I thinking about that correctly?

 

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