Topic: Microtrack 24/96 1.3.3

[udovdh]

Is the consensus that a 1.2.3 to 1.3.3 upgrade is advisable?
Or should 1.2.3 users wait?

[jtessier]

Thanks a lot!

Seems like I really have a defective unit.

I think you're right (and that tech support is wrong.)

Here's my complete stats on my test run for comparison.

   Left   Right
Min Sample Value:   -3.31   -1.95
Max Sample Value:   1.88   1.96
Peak Amplitude:   -79.92 dB   -84.44 dB
Possibly Clipped:   0   0
DC Offset:   0    0
Minimum RMS Power:   -96.54 dB   -96.52 dB
Maximum RMS Power:   -81.91 dB   -93.7 dB
Average RMS Power:   -95.6 dB   -95.64 dB
Total RMS Power:   -95.47 dB   -95.63 dB
Actual Bit Depth:   24 Bits   24 Bits

Using RMS Window of 50 ms

(again this was with it set to 0dB - Full Scale Sine Wave, below is with it set to 0dB = Full Scale Square Wave)

   Left   Right
Min Sample Value:   -3.31   -1.95
Max Sample Value:   1.88   1.96
Peak Amplitude:   -79.92 dB   -84.44 dB
Possibly Clipped:   0   0
DC Offset:   0    0
Minimum RMS Power:   -99.55 dB   -99.53 dB
Maximum RMS Power:   -84.92 dB   -96.71 dB
Average RMS Power:   -98.61 dB   -98.65 dB
Total RMS Power:   -98.48 dB   -98.64 dB
Actual Bit Depth:   24 Bits   24 Bits

Using RMS Window of 50 ms

I would say get it swapped out and hope for a good one.

It would be interesting to see with the unit set like you have it, if you put in a signal lets say that is 0dBU into both left and right. Then look at the file in Audition and see if both levels equal and how far below 0dBFS they are.  Mine hits -0dBFS with a +4.7dBU signal (both sides are roughly equal). LIke someone else said, it almost seems like you've got some gain somewhere. Maybe the left input volume control isn't really going down to minimum.

J.T.

[BC]

I recently had a 24/48 set flp channels about 8-9 minutes into a 45 minute set, then recorded two more without a problem...

Flipping channels DURING a set? That sucks, I was under the impression that it would keep em' either flipped or not flipped for the whole recording duration. How did you notice the flipping, on playback?

This channel flipping thing bugs me more than the 2 GB limit. 

 

[silentmark]

Yeah it was 1.2.3 and yeah you could tell as it was an on stage recording and yeah I haven't upgraded to 1.3.3 yet ...

[eric.B]

I recently had a 24/48 set flp channels about 8-9 minutes into a 45 minute set, then recorded two more without a problem...

Flipping channels DURING a set? That sucks, I was under the impression that it would keep em' either flipped or not flipped for the whole recording duration. How did you notice the flipping, on playback?

This channel flipping thing bugs me more than the 2 GB limit. 

 

yep.. a small audible "pop" and the channels(somewhat smoothly mind you, minus the "pop") flipped.. 8-9 minutes into a 2448 onstage recording.. 

[ghibliss]

I have recorded three shows since the 1.3.3. firmware was released and it is working perfectly for me.  There is absolutely no channel flipping going on with this version on my device.  This was never experienced on my MT with earlier releases.  I am going into the MT 24/96 via spdif, could the problem be taking place using only the inputs on the MT which run through the microphone preamplifier stage.  If so this is why spdif may not exhibit the problem.

[eric.B]

I recently had a 24/48 set flp channels about 8-9 minutes into a 45 minute set, then recorded two more without a problem...

Flipping channels DURING a set? That sucks, I was under the impression that it would keep em' either flipped or not flipped for the whole recording duration. How did you notice the flipping, on playback?

This channel flipping thing bugs me more than the 2 GB limit. 

 

yep.. a small audible "pop" and the channels(somewhat smoothly mind you, minus the "pop") flipped.. 8-9 minutes into a 2448 onstage recording.. 

I guess I should be more specific..

MT2496 (version 1.2.3)
mics > V3(2448) spdif out > MT (@2448 spdif IN)

this occurance was THE FIRST channel flip EVER with this particular unit..  and I havent read a post yet that said that channels "flipped on the fly", and like I said, the two subsequent sets did not exhibit any problems.  This MT unit was used once since then at 2448 for three sets and all were fine. 

[jtessier]

I recently had a 24/48 set flp channels about 8-9 minutes into a 45 minute set, then recorded two more without a problem...

Flipping channels DURING a set? That sucks, I was under the impression that it would keep em' either flipped or not flipped for the whole recording duration. How did you notice the flipping, on playback?

This channel flipping thing bugs me more than the 2 GB limit. 

 

yep.. a small audible "pop" and the channels(somewhat smoothly mind you, minus the "pop") flipped.. 8-9 minutes into a 2448 onstage recording.. 

I guess I should be more specific..

MT2496 (version 1.2.3)
mics > V3(2448) spdif out > MT (@2448 spdif IN)

this occurance was THE FIRST channel flip EVER with this particular unit..  and I havent read a post yet that said that channels "flipped on the fly", and like I said, the two subsequent sets did not exhibit any problems.  This MT unit was used once since then at 2448 for three sets and all were fine. 

Yes in previous firmware versions the S/PDIF would flip on the fly and quite often actually (at least in my experience).  I've never had the problem in 1.2.3 and had thought the problem was fixed. Apparantly it wasn't fixed 100% of the time.

J.T.

[BC]

I have recorded three shows since the 1.3.3. firmware was released and it is working perfectly for me.  There is absolutely no channel flipping going on with this version on my device.  This was never experienced on my MT with earlier releases.  I am going into the MT 24/96 via spdif, could the problem be taking place using only the inputs on the MT which run through the microphone preamplifier stage.  If so this is why spdif may not exhibit the problem.

FWIW, I never ran analog in, but with the last firmware I put on there (1.2.3 I think, MT is at home so I am not 100% positive) every time I began recording taking SPDIF from my V3 at 24/44.1 the channels were flipped. This problem never happened when taking digi in at 16 bit.

Thanks for the feedback guys, +t's.

[JasonSobel]

just thought I'd post my initial feedback regarding firmware 1.3.3

although I've done many DAT transfers since I loaded up 1.3.3 (obviously, 16 bit via the S/PDIF input), last night at Club d'Elf was the first time that I ran S/PDIF at 24 bit with the new firmware.

for the main act, with a Sandisk Ultra II 4 gig CF card, no problems at all.  first set ran an hour & 45 minutes, second set was just about an hour.  I thought the first set might have gone over 2 hours (I tape these guys regularly), so when a good break came 45 minutes into the first set, I stopped the recording and started a new file, to avoid the 2 gig limit and non-seamless split.  so that wasn't an issue and I missed no music.  No channel swapping on any of the three files that I recorded.

so that's the good news.  the bad news came earlier in the night.  For the first time since using the MicroTrack, I lost a recording.  for the opening act, I was running a 1 gig regular Sandisk CF card (not Ultra II or III or whatever, just a plain Sandisk).  I've used this card many times for opening acts, but in the past, I've always run at 16 bit from the V3 (via S/PDIF) for the opener, giving me an hour and a half of recording time.  well these opening acts for Club d'Elf usually only run 45 minutes or so, so I thought I'd give 24/48 a whirl for the opener as well.  Also, Scott and Rob were both recording as well, so I knew that if anything went wrong, I could just get a copy from them.  this recording mysteriously stopped at 29:24.  by that time, I thought it was going smoothly, and was just enjoying the music and not looking at my gear, so I didn't notice that it had stopped until the end of the set.  However, I don't want to chalk this one up to the MicroTrack firmware, because I have a feeling that the standard Sandisk card just couldn't maintain the write speed needed for 24/48.  because I have never ran 24/48 with this card before, it's hard to say for sure.  but because both sets for the Club d'Elf went smoothly and perfectly with the Ultra II card, the only difference was the card, and I'll just have to continue to run 16 bit for the opening act, until I get another faster card.  oh, also, just FWIW, the 29 minutes that I did record, the channels were not swapped, and it sounds great, no clicks, pops nor any other signs that the card couldn't keep up with the sustained data rate.

does anyone else have any ideas or thoughts about it?  as I said, I'm pretty sure it's an issue with the card, and not the MT, but if anyone has had similar experiences, I'd love to hear them...

[ShawnF]

Does it seem strange, though, that the card worked fine for half an hour, before apparently failing?  It seems suspicious to me that it could keep up the required write speed for that long and then all of sudden, not.   Though, I hope that's the answer, since I don't have one of those cards 

[eric.B]

just thought I'd post my initial feedback regarding firmware 1.3.3

although I've done many DAT transfers since I loaded up 1.3.3 (obviously, 16 bit via the S/PDIF input), last night at Club d'Elf was the first time that I ran S/PDIF at 24 bit with the new firmware.

for the main act, with a Sandisk Ultra II 4 gig CF card, no problems at all.  first set ran an hour & 45 minutes, second set was just about an hour.  I thought the first set might have gone over 2 hours (I tape these guys regularly), so when a good break came 45 minutes into the first set, I stopped the recording and started a new file, to avoid the 2 gig limit and non-seamless split.  so that wasn't an issue and I missed no music.  No channel swapping on any of the three files that I recorded.

so that's the good news.  the bad news came earlier in the night.  For the first time since using the MicroTrack, I lost a recording.  for the opening act, I was running a 1 gig regular Sandisk CF card (not Ultra II or III or whatever, just a plain Sandisk).  I've used this card many times for opening acts, but in the past, I've always run at 16 bit from the V3 (via S/PDIF) for the opener, giving me an hour and a half of recording time.  well these opening acts for Club d'Elf usually only run 45 minutes or so, so I thought I'd give 24/48 a whirl for the opener as well.  Also, Scott and Rob were both recording as well, so I knew that if anything went wrong, I could just get a copy from them.  this recording mysteriously stopped at 29:24.  by that time, I thought it was going smoothly, and was just enjoying the music and not looking at my gear, so I didn't notice that it had stopped until the end of the set.  However, I don't want to chalk this one up to the MicroTrack firmware, because I have a feeling that the standard Sandisk card just couldn't maintain the write speed needed for 24/48.  because I have never ran 24/48 with this card before, it's hard to say for sure.  but because both sets for the Club d'Elf went smoothly and perfectly with the Ultra II card, the only difference was the card, and I'll just have to continue to run 16 bit for the opening act, until I get another faster card.  oh, also, just FWIW, the 29 minutes that I did record, the channels were not swapped, and it sounds great, no clicks, pops nor any other signs that the card couldn't keep up with the sustained data rate.

does anyone else have any ideas or thoughts about it?  as I said, I'm pretty sure it's an issue with the card, and not the MT, but if anyone has had similar experiences, I'd love to hear them...

My first guess (as yours is) is the different card.  If it was untested at 2448, Id would say its where you must start with the diagnostic process.  BUT.. the fact that the 29min you DID get was fine makes me scratch my head  ::scratching head::..  you would *think* that the recorded 29min *would* have some clicks and whatnot iffin the card couldnt keep up w/ writing the data..   hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[live2496]

However, I don't want to chalk this one up to the MicroTrack firmware, because I have a feeling that the standard Sandisk card just couldn't maintain the write speed needed for 24/48.  because I have never ran 24/48 with this card before, it's hard to say for sure. 

Hi Jason,
On that card on pocket pc we have measured it at 459 to 640 kb/sec depending upon the host. 576 kb/sec is required for 24/96, so you should be able to use that card for 24/48 (with some room to spare).

I have not heard any discussion of cluster sizes used with the MicroTracker. However on pocket pc's we have found for windows ce we need to format the card with large clusters for maximum throughput. Our thinking has been that large clusters helps because of less overhead required to maintain the file allocation table.

Gordon

[JasonSobel]

Gordon - I've always just formatted my CF cards directly in the MicroTrack.  if I format in windows (with the card in a card reader), how do I specify cluster size?.   also, once I do that, if I then re-format in the MicroTrack, will the cluster size go back to the default size, or will it remain as what I set it when I formatted in Windows?  and when you say "large" cluster size, how big?

thanks for everyone's input, I also found it strange that it was fine for 29 minutes and then nothing.  I'll try to run some tests this weekend, and see if I can reproduce it.

[live2496]

Gordon - I've always just formatted my CF cards directly in the MicroTrack.  if I format in windows (with the card in a card reader), how do I specify cluster size?.   also, once I do that, if I then re-format in the MicroTrack, will the cluster size go back to the default size, or will it remain as what I set it when I formatted in Windows?  and when you say "large" cluster size, how big?

I understand that the Microtracker will reformat the media for it's own use and that this will undo any changes made. However, if it can be determined that cluster size has an effect, then maybe M-audio could be convinced to adjust their firmware.

I'm not a Microtracker user, but just thought I would put this idea out there as a possibility.

Can the media be formatted elsewhere and then used in the Microtracker as is?
I think that in windows management console you can right click and specify the cluster size if I'm not mistaken.
From a cmd prompt it's "format <drive:> /A:64K"  (for 64kb clusters). Do "format /?" for help

Try it if you have time to experiment. It might help you get some additional speed out of the card.

If nothing else, it might be useful to know what formatting the microtracker uses.