Topic: Microtrack 24/96 1.3.3

[Vismars]

Hmmm ... i'm dumb ^^ tried everything in the context menu like "check volume for errors", but did not do a chckdsk /f b:.
The file is there, it's only 1 hour long though.

Thanks a lot

[slowburn]

I just hit record twice, the unit does it as fast as it can.  Keeps the operator error low

That feature was added in 1.2.3 and it is what I do.

But there's a bug with it.  If you turn off the HOLD switch, hit rec twice, turn on HOLD, it will fail to start the new recording.  It saves the rec just fine but then it apparently checks the state of the hold switch before starting the new rec and throws a 'hold switch is on error'.   So you really have to wait to throw the HOLD back on.. Definitely a chance for error in the dark or when you aren't even pulling it out of your pocket to do it.

Not that it really matters but this worked in 1.00 or whatever the very first firmware it shipped with was called. Not sure about the hold button cause I never use it either but this has "always" been the way to do it. I guess the new autosplit function comes in handy if you for some reason forget to split it manually.

[kbergend]

I've been using the Microtrack as an "all-in-one" recorder with 9V-powered AT943s for a while now (convenient but very noisy, especially using the 1/8" mic jack).  I recently acquired a Core Mic2496 preamp/ADC and I've been doing some home testing with it and the Microtrack @ 24/44.1 using a 4Gb SanDisk Ultra II CF card.  I'm running the v1.3.3 firmware.

The new auto-split feature seems to work, sort of.  After almost 2 hours of recording, the initial file closed properly and the MT opened another one (after a several-second delay), but the time remaining on the new file indicated only about 5 minutes.  This second file counted down and also closed, and then a third file showing about 2 hours of available time initialized.  When this 3rd file reached 1:03.39 remaining, the MT just stopped counting down.  I then hit the REC button hoping to close the file, and I got the usual "Writing file." screen.  However, it just stayed on that screen rather than going back to the meters.  Hitting the REC button again had no effect.  When I hit the on/off button, I got a message indicateding the recording had to be terminated before the recorder could be shut down.  Then I hit the MENU button and it switched to the normal menu, and selecting Files showed there were indeed 3 files on the card.  When I removed the card and stuck it in my CF reader, the three files were there along with a fourth file with 0 bytes, and the 3 files appear to be normal 24-bit .wavs and all loaded into CEP properly.  Weird!  Parenthetically, I had reformatted the CF card in the Microtrack just before the test. 

It's possible the problem was due to a weak signal from the Core unit after 3 hours as I was running it with a standard 9V battery (I'll be using a battery pack in the field) and its low battery LED had been lit for well over an hour, but I'm just speculating.  Even so, there should certainly be a more graceful way to deal with such contingencies.  There seemed to be plenty of juice left in the recorder based on the Microtrack charge indicator.  I'll be repeating this test soon with a battery pack powering the Mic2496.

I would manually split any recording of a long show in real life, but flaky behavior like this doesn't inspire a whole lot of confidence.  I'm also very troubled by the recent reports of the MT quitting unexpectedly after 29 minutes.  I'll definitely be using my Sharp IM-80 MD recorder (which is actually quieter than the MT as a standalone recorder, even after an analog transfer through my M-Audio soundcard) as backup until M-Audio gets this quirky machine working more reliably.

[rodeen]

This is the exact same behavior we saw last weekend when a recording is started and the MT is not getting a signal via SP/DIF.  Once we made sure a good signal was there prior to starting a recording we ran with no problems.  One other significant difference was that we were recording 16/44.1. 

[dointhatrag]

OK, I just purchased one of these units and I am trying to stay positive. upgraded to with latest XP firmware.  My unit does not recognized a 4 gig flash card!  It is formatted FAT32 and still  "no media found"  it is a scandisc CF and it has switches on it to make it 4 gig or 2 gig. Niether work!  With my card reader it works fine.  I have a 2 gig PNY CF and it works fine What am I doing wrong?

[dointhatrag]

Here's another one for everyone,  I recorded two files via SPIF at 16/44.1 on 2G CF.      the first file  had a pitch problem, its playing back to fast ( via MT or winamp)  the file is 844 meg that has the wrong pitch.  the second file I recorded is 498 meg and sounds just fine.

another thing I noticed was in WINAMP when I play the first file back it says 48K  and the second file says 44K   WTF?   no changes were made between file recordings.    Anyone ever see this problem before?

[china_rider]

Hmmm... I had no issues with my MT before last Friday recording Particle with the new 1.3.3 firmware.  The differences are that I had a 4XAA usb battery pack plugged in while recording and the new firmware.  Running ua5->microtrack with a kingston 4gb elite pro.

First set recorded perfectly.  Second set started recording... Went to get a beer and when I came back the MT had shut off.  Turned it back on when I came back and recorded the rest of the show.  Came home to find the all 3 recordings, one with size 0.  Ran check disk as mentioned above and recovered the file... However, now I have for the second set, one file that contains all music up to the shut off point and then continues after the restart until the end of the show and one file that just contains the music from the restart to the end of the show.  Very strange... Maybe somehow chkdsk duplicated the last part of the second set in the one file?

My MT had never shut down on it own before and I can't recreate the problem at home... very strange.

EDIT: Just noticed my battery box output is 5.6v / 800mA and not a standard 5.0v, could this cause the problem?  Battery box is at:
http://zxpro.com/catalog/product_16686_USB_Battery_Box_with_LED_light_Emergency_Charger_cat_284.html

[udovdh]

Are those unexpected recording stops for 1.3.3 all due to SPDIF? Or do they happen with analog input as well?

Maybe media issues?

[balou2]

.

[china_rider]

Mine was SPDIF... Used it plenty of times before without issue.  Also have been using the same CF card.  Only differences were the new firmware and the batterypack.

Over the weekend I've used the exact same setup in front of the TV for over 20 hours and have had no turnoffs

[it-goes-to-eleven]

My USB bbox is dead nuts on 5.0 volts.    I have never seen the one you linked to before but the 5.6 volts is off by 12%..  More bench testing?

[rodeen]

My USB bbox is dead nuts on 5.0 volts.    I have never seen the one you linked to before but the 5.6 volts is off by 12%..  More bench testing?

Maybe no voltage regulator on his battery box?  I'm guessing (really) that this could reek havoc on the MT.

[guysonic]

My USB bbox is dead nuts on 5.0 volts.    I have never seen the one you linked to before but the 5.6 volts is off by 12%..  More bench testing?

Maybe no voltage regulator on his battery box?  I'm guessing (really) that this could reek havoc on the MT.

USB specifications have two voltage ranges:

1.1 needs 4.4 to 5.25 volts supplied and equipment powered to work within this range
2.0 requires 4.7 to 5.25 specifications

Many low costing and homemade battery boxes for USB powering do NOT have sufficient voltage regulation and/or operational range as the battery capacity is consumed.

For example, using 4 AA alkaline cells with no regulation starts out at ~6.5 volts (~1.65v/cell), but immediately starts a downward voltage slope that ends at 3.2 volts (0.8v/cell) if the entire 2200-2500 milliamperes capacity is consumed.  Obviously, this is not good for powering USB devices so adding a low dropout 5 volt linear regulator solves the high voltage issues, but at 4.7 volts (~1.2v/cell) there remains significant 'juice' in the pack that is unused. 

Using rechargeable NiCD or NiMH cells of equivalent current capacity also doesn't work as the starting voltage for 4 cells is ~5.2volts (~1.3v/cell) is a good starting place, but quickly reduces to <4.7volts (~1.17v/cell) where most of the cells capacity remains unusable if USB 2.0 specifications are important.

Using 5 rechargeable NiMH cells (6.5 volts) WITH linear LDO or switching 5 volt regulation seems the most practical 'proper' way to get most all the capacity from these cells with end of capacity pack voltage of ~5.2 volts (~1.05-1.1v/cell).

The other causes of malfunction in cheap or badly designed cell packs that use individual cells within spring loaded battery holder, is the terminal contacts can be intermittant from the slightest dust, grease, and/or vibration.   Good practice is to keep all contacts spotless with initial alcohol cleaning, and secure the cells from any vibrations with foam strips on the holder lid.

The microtrack uses power managment to apply USB power to charge up the battery while also running the deck.  If USB power goes away for a fraction of a second, the deck auto switches in the battery quickly so a recording continues without incident, or so this is supposed to work.  However, the power management can fail to switch quickly enough on rare occassions (experience has shown) and the deck will shut down completely without saving the file.  If enough of these interruptions occur from the external pack, the rare failure becomes more likely.  Maybe this is what is happening to some recordists using cheap solutions?

Also, USB connector is NOT robust and the slightly loose fitting gets looser with use, so moving this connector while recording is asking for trouble, and will eventually wear out the mechanical to become more unreliable than when new.

Just some of the considerations when using external USB power with the microtrack.  I have designed special microtrack powering sleds that address all these issues (minus the inherent weakness of the USB connector itself).  These use a special precision switching regulator that uses ALL THE capacity (7 or 14 amperes!) available in C or D alkaline cells in a holder that has been modified NOT TO FLEX to break the contacts at any time. 

Go to my site to see these solutions, maybe these will give the DIY some good ideas, and keep in mind that one lost recording is likely worth more than a few dollars saved with using a cheap powering solution of unreliable design.

[JasonSobel]

my latest experience with the MT.  a bit similar to my experience a couple of weeks ago, only a bit more disturbing this time:

Just for clarity, I'm using the latest fimrware (v1.3.3), and I'm recording via the S/PDIF input from me V3.  and I'm using an external battery pack, a 7.2V 5000mAH battery with ToddR's "juice box" voltage regulator to supply the 5V to the MT.  I know that both the S/PDIF cable and the USB cable were firmly in place the entire time.

opening set:
using my standard Sandisk 1 gig CF card.  after my bad experience a couple of weeks ago running 24/48 with this card (the recording mysteriously stopped 29 minutes into that set), I was playing it safe with this card and only running at 16/48.  I've run 16/48 with this card countless times with no problems, and last night was no different.  great, I got the full opener.

Club d'Elf
running 24/48 with my Sandisk Ultra II 4 gig CF card - previously, I've never had a bad experience with this card, and I've been running at 24/48 with it since last October.

Set I: no problems.  they usually play about 2 hours, which means the 2 gig limit is always a concern.  sometimes just under 2 hours, sometimes over it.  usually, after 45 minutes - 1 hour of constant music, they stop, Mike will introduce the band, and then they'll get going again for the remainder of the set.  so I know that there's usually only one good place to stop, save, and start a new file.  however, last night, they took no breaks and played straight through.  I was getting nervous, but the set ended with 2 minutes left before I would have hit the 2 gig limit.  phew.  (not that it would have been the end of the world, because I wasn't the only taper, but it's just nice to get the whole thing ).  ok, no problems, everything is going smoothly.

Set II.  I know that the second set is only going to be about an hour, so I don't have to worry about the 2 gig limit.  and I still have 2 gigs free on the card, so that's not an issue either.  everything is going smoothly.  then, mysteriously, the recording stopped at just past 1 hour (off hand, I don't know the exact time it stopped, I'm at work now, but I check this evening when I get home).  I didn't see it happen, so I don't know if the MT displayed any message, but because it was towards the end of the set, I was paying close attention, and I noticed that it was no longer recording.  I quickly hit the REC button again to see if it would start up again, and it flashed the screen "HOLD switch enabled" (I'm paraphrasing there, I don't recall exactly what the MT says when hold is on).  duh, ok, undo the hold switch, then I press REC.  and it starts up a new file.  it says that I've got just over an hour of record time, which is perfectly consistent with how much available space is left on the card.  it then records perfectly for the next 7 minutes or so, the set ended, and I tore everything down pretty quick to get home (after all, it was 2:15am, and I have to wake up at 6 to get ready for work).

so, here I am.  I probably only missed a minute or two of the second set, and I can easily patch it with Scott's Schoeps source.  but, these past two experiences haven't left a good taste in my mouth.  prior to last night, I had never had any problems with the Ultra II card.  and based on my last two outings with the MT, I'm beginning to think it's a problem with the MT firmware.  I've been lucky that the two recordings I've lost, there have been other tapers.  but that's not always the case.  I've been using the MT since last Sept, using it at 24 bit since last Oct, and not running my D8 as a backup (or any backup) since November.  Many people have gotten fed up with the MT, and I've usually been quick to post my good to great experience with the recorder.  no I don't know what do to.  I'm really close to purchasing a stock PMD-671 or the Tascam.  I need to do some research to see which is cheaper and which is easier to power.  the Sound Devices aren't an option, because of the cost involved (I'm not willing to sell my V3).  also, I like the idea of recording onto CF card, and no harddrive.

on the other hand, maybe I should just continue to be patient and hope for a firmware fix.

the bottom line is, I just don't like to worry about anything when taping.  there's enough stuff going on to worry about that I can't control (drunk wook knocking over my stand or spilling beer, etc, etc) that I feel like everything I can control, I should do so to minimize stress.  that's why I always carry around an lead battery for my V3 that would run it for 15 hours, even though I never tape festivals.  and while I never tested it, my 5 AH battery for the MicroTrack would probably run it for over 24 hours.  the 2 gig limit is something I can deal with usually, although I don't like having to worry about it.  many of my taping outings are on-stage, and I know that the V3 needs to be at +33dB.  it's great to set it all up and not worry about a thing.  it's unnacceptable for me to worry about whether or not the recorder is going to mysteriously stop recording.  that's why I think I need a more reliable recorder.

any thoughts or suggestions?

[cmoorevt]

Jason-  Two questions:

1.  Did you turn off the deck between sets?
2. When you started recording the second set, did you happen to notice how much record time was remaining on the display? 

Reason I ask is because I had a similar experience the other night.  2gb card, recording at 16/48, so I have about 3 hours of recording time....

First set was 1hr.  Everything went fine.  Second set was just over an hour, but the unit stopped recording around 58-59 mins.  SOMEHOW, I happened to be looking at the deck when it happened, saw the media full message flash (even though I should have had another hour of recording time remaining) and was able to start a new file without missing any more than 5 seconds.

Two things that were different than my previous outings. 

1.) It was my first taping experience with 1.3.3

2.) I didn't turn the deck off between sets.  For whatever reason, I have always done this previously and never had any of problems with the deck stopping the recording or any other problem for that matter.

When I get home tonight, I'm going to try to recreate what happened.  Record for an hour, stop, leave deck on, start second file, and see if the display gives me an incorrect time remaining.  Then I'll try recording an hour, turn deck off, turn it back on, start second file, and see if display gives me a different time remaining.