Topic: Mic Upgrade Recommendations?

[BayTaynt3d]

Alright, I've started to toy with the idea of getting more serious about my mics. Many of you may be already familiar with my deal, but if not, here's a quick recap. I'm about 8 months into being somewhat hardcore about my taping. I'd been into video for a while, but I've become more interested in audio lately. On some very good suggestions by TS members, I started with the standard C4 > UA5 > JB3 setup, and slowly moved onto to a C4/CK391-393 > R4 setup. I'm running 3-4 mics or AUD/SBD matrixes of mostly acoustic jazz on a regular basis (one recording per week these days or more).

Anyway, I'm thinking about a real upgrade on the mic front, and I'm looking for suggestions. I can't really see myself spending more that $1,500-$2,000 on this madness. I'm also a little torn about whether I can raise some funds by selling my current mics. For starters, I want to keep four mics on hand because that has produced some really nice recordings with my R4. The next thing that complicates things, is that I like having my current flexibility of 2 omnis, 4 cards, and 2 hypers between the C4s and the 390s. Depending on the situation, I routinely use all three types of caps. I'm not sure I'm going to be able to keep that though with an upgrade. I mostly use the cards in DIN/NOS/XY/ORTF or spot-micing configs, but I run the hypers for crappy venues (and sometimes for indoor video work) and I love running the omnis in j-disc form or split in certain situations (especially for onstage AUD when doing matrix, and more recently under windy outdoor conditions). Now, since the C4s are so cheap and they have the omni caps, I think I'll just keep them (and who knows? maybe they'll be hypers some day, LOL). So, that makes me feel like I might be willing to give up the AKG card/hypers (391/3) in the name of getting one nice set of cards? Not sure though.

So, anyone care to make some recommendations? I got some really good advice from TS when I started out eight months ago, and I'm hoping for a little more of that wisdom now. I'm looking for pencil condensers I think, so LDs are out of scope right now. Also, remember I'm running on an R4 with nothing inbetween, and I'm taping mostly acoustic jazz with my pick of setups (onstage, sbd access, etc.). Right now, both sets of mics I have are the perfect sensativety cause I can run mic-in on the R4 with the mic's 10 db pads engaged for almost all of my gigs, so I was hoping not to end up with mics that were so sensative, I'd have to go line-in on the R4, but who knows? Should I go for some better AKGs? Honestly, sometimes I think I like my C4s more than my 390's, which makes me hesitate on the AKG front. How about Neumans? Or are their any Schoeps that are even in my price range at all?

Thanks in advance for your ideas!

[JasonSobel]

for the $1500 - $2000 range, you have a lot of choices.
you should be able to get a pair of Neumann or Schoeps, especially if you buy used.
and if you are happy with just a pair of cards, you could get a pair of km184's for $800 - $900 used.
of course, going with the km140's or Schoeps mics gives you the option of more caps down the road.
personally, I'd recommend the Microtech Gefell mics.  if you're willing to spend 2 grand, you can get a brand new pair.  I'm recommending them because I love them and think they're better than Neumman's or Schoeps (although fewer cap options.  just cards, hypers, and omnis), that's why I run them.

but really, for that amount of money, you have your pick, and will have to decide for yourself what sounds best.

[guysonic]

Or go really crazy for double the budget for something entirely different.

My choice for R-4 is HRTF 4 channel surround mic array.  Of course this 4-ch baffled omni mic method devolves well for into making 2 channel stereo versions, and with surround information mostly intact if careful with edit mix, but really natural sounding for direct to 4 channel DVD-audio disc without doing much of anything in edit.

Photo of 4 ch HRTF mic array (sans proper baffle) was shown somewhere in a 4 channel recording discussion a month or two back. 

I'm sure some of you (maybe Teddy?) recalls where this is posted, maybe knowing right were to find the surround recording reference?  Otherwise, I can likely dig it up in a search.

[krebsy]

My mic path was C-4's, then 393/391's, then KM140's. Each step was a definite upgrade. The Neumann's don't have the low end thump of the 39x's, but the mids and highs are so silky smooth that you won't miss it much.  You have lots of cap options with the 140's, but they are pricey and not that easy to find used.  Also, running the lo profile setup with the active cables is a really nice feature. Good luck deciding!!

[grider]

despite the advantage of having several different mics in your arsenal, I'd suggest selling them all and just buying one set of high quality set of mics, maybe 480's, or 140/150's, mk4's, something like that, and you will be set, run them right into the R4 and you are set to make great and easy recordings

[BayTaynt3d]

Thanks for all of the suggestions guys, it's definitely helping me think about things. For the record (somewhat a response to above), I want to continue to have four mics, so getting rid of all of my current mics is not an option unless I buy four new ones. The difference that third or fouth mic has made for me over the past few months is immeasurable -- sometimes it ends up being AUD plus a mic stuck in a piano, other times it's AUD plus a spot on a bass and piano, and still other times for trios or quartets it's been spot-micing each instrument individually. There's no way I'm giving up that flexibility now. Also, I want a pair of omnis, and I actually think the C4 omnis sound great, and since those mics are so inexpensive anyway, those will be the ones I keep. So, I'm really looking to upgrade the 391/3s I think. The comment about the neuman's is interesting because I often find the lows of the AKGs kind of annoying, and I end up rolling some of it off regularly -- so, maybe I'm a good fit for the neumans?

[muj]

try nevaton ..nice russian mics

[bgalizio]

The Peluso CEMC6's have a bunch of cap choices as well.

[Sanjay]

Have you considered LD mics?  I know you might not like AKG's but the XLS has 5 patterns, the ADK TL's have 4, SP c3 have 3, etc....

[BayTaynt3d]

I was thinking I didn't want to deal with the size factor cause my rig is already way too big, LOL! But maybe I should reconsider? I guess I'd have to modify my vert bar if I went LD eh?

[jlykos]

If you want to keep some of your existing AKG mics, then I would recommend some 480s because they have the same tonal qualities as the 390x series.  The 480s sound better and can handle higher SPLs than the 390 series, but the general tonal qualities are similar.  You can easily find them used for not a whole lot of money; for $2000 or even less, you can probably pick up two used sets of them.  They also have a wide range of caps.

Maybe you can get one set of the 480s, keep one set of the 390s for reinforcement, sell the other pair of 390s to help finance it, and spend the rest of your budget on a nice preamp for the R4.  Something like a used V2 would probably be nice with that setup and would fit within your budget if you buy used.

Microtech Gefell are still the best mics on the planet.  Had to throw that in there.

[Scooter]

Microtech Gefell are still the best mics on the planet.  Had to throw that in there.

Yessir!   In addition to MG's, i'd vote for 480's or Peluso's w/ all the caps.  You'd be set.

[Bdifr78]

Microtech Gefell are still the best mics on the planet.  Had to throw that in there.

Yessir!   In addition to MG's, i'd vote for 480's or Peluso's w/ all the caps.  You'd be set.

Someone on here is selling a pair of m300s for 1000.  I thinnk TimP.  You could then sell the 390s and get a pair of 483s for the hyper work load.

[beanstalk]

SD -  Peluso CEMC6 Stereo Kit Loaded w/ all the caps and shocks (aprox $1200.00 give or take)
LD - AKG C414BXLS ( 5 patterns) (approx $1500.00 give or take)

Ran them both, love them both. When the my $$'s are right and when or if an active setup is made. I'll get a set of Peluso's again.