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Author Topic: Nakamichi CM100 and 300 attenuators...  (Read 1853 times)

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jessedscott

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Nakamichi CM100 and 300 attenuators...
« on: February 28, 2007, 11:36:31 AM »
I recall never having a problem using either attenuatos with either body, the 100's or 300's. Over 2 years ago I sold a set of Naks. 100 bodies and apparently the 300 attenators with that set. Turns out the person pm'ed me last night saying that they have never worked right. After 2 years I hear this, I'm bummed.


any help...

I asked which batteries he is using, havn't heard back yet...


 :'(
« Last Edit: February 28, 2007, 11:39:17 AM by Tree Top Flyer »

stirinthesauce

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Re: Nakamichi CM100 and 300 attenuators...
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2007, 11:45:55 AM »
That sucks. 

Isn't 2 years a little bit too long to be contacting a seller about a problem with equipment?   :-\ When I buy something, whether new or used I try it out pretty quickly.  If something isn't right, that is the time to look at resolving the situation.

+t for the headache

jessedscott

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Re: Nakamichi CM100 and 300 attenuators...
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2007, 11:48:34 AM »
That sucks. 

Isn't 2 years a little bit too long to be contacting a seller about a problem with equipment?   :-\ When I buy something, whether new or used I try it out pretty quickly.  If something isn't right, that is the time to look at resolving the situation.

+t for the headache


yeah, my thoughts as well. BUT, I did sell them that way. SO I do need to make it right.

The thing is, I remember switching the cap(attenators) all the time.

stirinthesauce

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Re: Nakamichi CM100 and 300 attenuators...
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2007, 11:54:02 AM »
That sucks. 

Isn't 2 years a little bit too long to be contacting a seller about a problem with equipment?   :-\ When I buy something, whether new or used I try it out pretty quickly.  If something isn't right, that is the time to look at resolving the situation.

+t for the headache


yeah, my thoughts as well. BUT, I did sell them that way. SO I do need to make it right.

The thing is, I remember switching the cap(attenators) all the time.

I hear ya, doing what 's right.

As far as switchig attenuators/caps, I wouldn't think that would be an issue.  No real electronics in the body, just a housing for the battery.  The fet is in the attenuator barrel from what I can remember.

jessedscott

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Re: Nakamichi CM100 and 300 attenuators...
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2007, 12:09:21 PM »
yeah, I don't recall ever having an issue switching the att's on either bodies. I just wish I would've know about this, well, 2 years ago...

Offline Patrick

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Re: Nakamichi CM100 and 300 attenuators...
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2007, 12:32:20 PM »
The 100's run off AA batts, while the Cm300 run from 9v's.  If he has a cm100 barrel, he can still use the cm300 cap/attenuator, he just needs to use the red 9v batteries.  That'll solve the problem right there.


jessedscott

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Re: Nakamichi CM100 and 300 attenuators...
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2007, 12:38:35 PM »
The 100's run off AA batts, while the Cm300 run from 9v's.  If he has a cm100 barrel, he can still use the cm300 cap/attenuator, he just needs to use the red 9v batteries.  That'll solve the problem right there.



that's what I said.. 

just got off the phone with him.

Offline SmokinJoe

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Re: Nakamichi CM100 and 300 attenuators...
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2007, 10:32:59 PM »
OK.  I'm the idiot who ignored the problem for two years.   ;D  I had recording levels which were rediculously low and if I cranked up the preamps until I got an almost decent level the noise level was rediculous.  I tried cards and omnis, AA and 9V bats, and all that.  Jessie successfully convinced me that the problem was my pre-amp, so I left him alone, and let the mics collect dust.  Just yesterday I happened to see a picture of the the attenuators and counted the slots, and realized the mismatch.  I'm not trying to shakedown Jessie for a refund, just hoped he knew what happened to know where the other parts were, and we could figure something out.  I don't want to badmouth Jessie.

Technically, there is a significant amount of electronics in the body/barrel.  Look at the attached picture (copied from one of the Active mod threads).  Everything in the middle of the upper picture, labeled "battery/transformer/switch assembly" is in that barrel assy.  Yes, the FET is in the attenuator, but it's only half the circuit.  The CM-100 circuit is significantly different, in particular 200ohm vs. 600ohm impedence.

Bottom line, I'm looking for a pair of CM-300 barrels, thinking that there may be some left over from a Franken-Nak conversion (which elimiate the barrel I believe).  Or, somewhere in this world there must be a guy with CM-300 barrels, and CM-100 attenuators.  If you read this, please contact me  ;D

Thanks,
Joe
« Last Edit: February 28, 2007, 10:36:44 PM by SmokinJoe »
Mics: Schoeps MK4 & CMC5's / Gefell M200's & M210's / ADK-TL / DPA4061's
Pres: V3 / ST9100
Decks: Oade Concert Mod R4Pro / R09 / R05
Big Rig: split snake > Focusrite & Presonus Pres > ADAT > Alesis HD-24 > Protools 11
Daughter's rig:  AT4050ST > Busman Hybrid R4
Photo: Nikon D700's, 2.8 Zooms, and Zeiss primes
Playback: Raspberry Pi > Modi2 Uber > Magni2 > HD650

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Re: Nakamichi CM100 and 300 attenuators...
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2007, 10:57:09 PM »
Well - first make sure the attenuators are OFF....sounds like they are turned ON - hence the low output - (and these mics have low output to start with!)

All of these Primo OEM mic parts are interchangeable - I dont think mixing these NAK parts is going to make a huge difference in performance...

The capsules are the same on the 100 and 300...

Offline SmokinJoe

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Re: Nakamichi CM100 and 300 attenuators...
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2007, 11:57:16 PM »
Well - first make sure the attenuators are OFF....sounds like they are turned ON - hence the low output - (and these mics have low output to start with!)

All of these Primo OEM mic parts are interchangeable - I dont think mixing these NAK parts is going to make a huge difference in performance...

The capsules are the same on the 100 and 300...

Yes, I do have the attenuators off.  And I tried them on, just in case I had it backwards. I ran them through an MX-100 mixer -> Line in.  Also tried Nak -> old cassette deck "Mic in".  No dice.  These aren't 10db low, they are more like 80db low.  I don't have a scope handy, but if I crank all the gains up on everything, put them 1" from my mouth and yell, I get a small blip on the meter.  I haven't tried to tape a live show, but it I set everything up in the living room with my stereo blasting, turn up the preamp gains all the way, you can just barely hear some sound through the noise floor.

If you look at http://computorney.com/nak/ he has the actual schematics for the different mics in the owner's manuals.  Most of the compenent's values are listed, although some are deliberately missing. The CM-100 and CM-300 have a lot of subtle circuitry differences. I have an EE degree, but that was 20+ years ago, and I most of the details are pretty fuzzy... I expect there are folks here who have this a lot fresher in mind than me.  I remember sweating over "FET bias curves" and that getting the bias voltages and pull-up resistors was absolutely critical to getting an amplifier circuit with the right gain. Certainly mixing and matching these parts was not something the designers intended. I don't remember much about impedence matching, I think I killed that braincell at a dead show in '88 ;D   Yes, the capsules are interchangable, but that was a design decision, and they designed the amp circuits around that.  It's common knowledge the CM300 can take a lot more BPL than the CM-100.  Where does that come from?  If it's not in the capsule, it must be in the amp circuit, half of which is in the attenuator, and half is in the barrel.  Based on science, and this limited experience, I believe there are not interchangable.  Somewhere there is an opposite set of CM-100 attenuators/CM-300 bodies with the leftover parts from my set, and that probably has gain up the wazoo.  That guy is probably complaining about brickwalling...

I looked quickly at Primo.  I think they just make/made capsules.  The bodies and attenuators where nak design and manufacture.
Mics: Schoeps MK4 & CMC5's / Gefell M200's & M210's / ADK-TL / DPA4061's
Pres: V3 / ST9100
Decks: Oade Concert Mod R4Pro / R09 / R05
Big Rig: split snake > Focusrite & Presonus Pres > ADAT > Alesis HD-24 > Protools 11
Daughter's rig:  AT4050ST > Busman Hybrid R4
Photo: Nikon D700's, 2.8 Zooms, and Zeiss primes
Playback: Raspberry Pi > Modi2 Uber > Magni2 > HD650

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Re: Nakamichi CM100 and 300 attenuators...
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2007, 12:14:30 AM »


I looked quickly at Primo.  I think they just make/made capsules.  The bodies and attenuators where nak design and manufacture.

Pretty sure Primo made the whole shebang - there are a bunch of mics with the same bodies/attenuators - TEAC/TASCAM/JVC/as well as Primo branded models...

I have a the body innards from a pair of TEAC ME-80s...Pretty sure these were made to run on 9V - I'd be happy to ship them to you if you are interested...not sure if I Have spec sheet for these - (I do have specs for the similar ME120) -

I can send some pics if you want...


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Re: Nakamichi CM100 and 300 attenuators...
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2007, 12:23:15 AM »
~

jessedscott

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Re: Nakamichi CM100 and 300 attenuators...
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2007, 04:52:04 AM »
Quote
Somewhere there is an opposite set of CM-100 attenuators/CM-300 bodies with the leftover parts from my set, and that probably has gain up the wazoo

and , thankfully I have NEVER deleted my SENT emails through yahoo. I have traced where I think I sold the set of 3 CM300's in April of 2004. so, we'll wait and see. I had 3 300's and they went in one deal. I had 3 100's, Joe bought a pair, and I sent the third away w/ the P-mod ua5 as the third mic option.

I am truly real sorry about this. I remember checking every thing before I sold it. even taping shows w/ both the different sets, 100's and 300's. I was also using a few different pre's/ad's as well. you do have to crank the levels with NAks. I would have never sold anything to anyone not working. I could have mixed the att's and this could vary well be the problem, who know's.

it will get solved...

so sorry Joe...
« Last Edit: March 01, 2007, 04:56:05 AM by Tree Top Flyer »

Offline SmokinJoe

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Re: Nakamichi CM100 and 300 attenuators...
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2007, 06:49:51 AM »
Don't worry Jessie, we're cool ;D  PM's are starting to roll in... I'm sure I'll end up with a working pair of something.
Mics: Schoeps MK4 & CMC5's / Gefell M200's & M210's / ADK-TL / DPA4061's
Pres: V3 / ST9100
Decks: Oade Concert Mod R4Pro / R09 / R05
Big Rig: split snake > Focusrite & Presonus Pres > ADAT > Alesis HD-24 > Protools 11
Daughter's rig:  AT4050ST > Busman Hybrid R4
Photo: Nikon D700's, 2.8 Zooms, and Zeiss primes
Playback: Raspberry Pi > Modi2 Uber > Magni2 > HD650

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Re: Nakamichi CM100 and 300 attenuators...
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2018, 08:59:49 PM »
Anyone have the schematic or diagram to male the franken naks, I really wanna use a.set of the cm100s as stealth
Ca14 cards> Rode M5 > Nak CP-1,CP-2,CP-4 >Superlux S502
Ugly Box 2
Tascam DR60D MKII > R-09

 

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