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Author Topic: MOTU UltraLite and external L-Ion Batts?  (Read 6388 times)

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Offline ArchivalAudio

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Re: MOTU UltraLite and external L-Ion Batts?
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2007, 09:53:59 PM »
hey
taper420
thanx

do you have any inline resistors on you SLA?

thanx
~ Archival Audio ~
Archiving Worthy Music
since 1986 & digitally since 1995

https://www.facebook.com/ArchivalAudio/

Main Mics: Milab VM-44 Links • Milab DC-196's (Matched  Pair)  • MBHO KA500 or KA300 • Line Audio CM3's
PreAmps:  Naiant LittleBox • Naiant [Milab VM44] TinyBox • Naiant PIPsqueak
Recorders: MixPre 10T •  Tascam DR-100 mkIII • Sony M-10 

macMini 3Ghz i7 16GB Ram 500GB SSD • MOTU UltraLite
Naiant MSH-2's •   TOA K1's • Beyer TG 153c's •  AT 853 (4.7kmod darktrain) • Countryman B3's (1 k mod)  + other assorted mics

Offline ArchivalAudio

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Re: MOTU UltraLite and external L-Ion Batts?
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2007, 09:55:27 PM »
after 1 week of no reply to MOTU
here is an email I sent...
any answers here?

hello

so it has now been 1 week since I sent my inquiry sent on 4/30/07
it is not 5/8/07
I still await any response.

I was really hoping some reply back from you....
the last tech support response was 4 days, but it has now been 1-week

could some one reply
please

since no tech reply I am cc Customer service and Sales
I hope that someone in you company will take the time to help a customer
with your own product




if you need more information please let me know...

see my original question below
I am registered on your site: login:  ArchivalAudio  my name is: ___ ____
and I own a MOTU Ultralite

I do recording of live music, where I sometimes do not have access to 110v AC power
I am looking to power My ultralite with some external battery cell

I currently own a PowerSonic PS-1230 12 volt 3.4 amp hour Sealed Lead Acid battery
which I have used to power other devices in the field
specifically: my Denecke AD-20 and my Denecke PS-2 (dual48v-phantom supply) at the same time
also I used it to power my Presonus Firebox while it was plugged into my iBook G4
to conserve my iBook's internal battery

what I was hoping is that I could use a Lithium - ion battery (perhaps 9 v) to power the ultralite which would lighten my load  to carry, since Lead is darn heavy

 I am planing on running a show in the "field" on may 26th
and really would like a response soon

the information in the manual has conflicting information that is noted on page 19 of the manual

it states that it can run from 8-18volts  but the notation online states differently

I do not want to be drawing power from my bus (computer)  so I can save battery power, and want to power the ultralite externally, via a battery.


also would you suggest a resistor to limit the current flowing to the ultralite? and if so how much resistance?

what is the "optimal" voltage the ultralite needs?
While the back pannel states 9vDC tip + or -  I see the pwer supply that shipped with it is actually 15v DC
can you clear this up?


I have found some others running similarly, on tapersection , but would like to hear from MOTU since you are the "experts"  no one on unicornation has responded to my question.

please reply

thank you
~ Archival Audio ~
Archiving Worthy Music
since 1986 & digitally since 1995

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Main Mics: Milab VM-44 Links • Milab DC-196's (Matched  Pair)  • MBHO KA500 or KA300 • Line Audio CM3's
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Recorders: MixPre 10T •  Tascam DR-100 mkIII • Sony M-10 

macMini 3Ghz i7 16GB Ram 500GB SSD • MOTU UltraLite
Naiant MSH-2's •   TOA K1's • Beyer TG 153c's •  AT 853 (4.7kmod darktrain) • Countryman B3's (1 k mod)  + other assorted mics

Offline ArchivalAudio

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Re: MOTU UltraLite and external L-Ion Batts?
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2007, 11:50:02 PM »
so here is the reply from MOTU

Thank you for your interest.

Depending on whether phantom power is engaged on the mic pre amps,
the UltraLite will draw roughly 7 watts.
The UltraLite will operate with a DC voltage from 9 to 24 volts.

If I can be of further service, please let me know.



I also sent more questions
funny though
the reply cam e from
sales
and not tech support....
since I cc'd  sales upgrades and tech support
I am glad someone replied

now awaiting my other questions...

taper420  are you running your sla with either in line fuses or any resistors to limit current draw?

thanx

peace out!
 ;D
~ Archival Audio ~
Archiving Worthy Music
since 1986 & digitally since 1995

https://www.facebook.com/ArchivalAudio/

Main Mics: Milab VM-44 Links • Milab DC-196's (Matched  Pair)  • MBHO KA500 or KA300 • Line Audio CM3's
PreAmps:  Naiant LittleBox • Naiant [Milab VM44] TinyBox • Naiant PIPsqueak
Recorders: MixPre 10T •  Tascam DR-100 mkIII • Sony M-10 

macMini 3Ghz i7 16GB Ram 500GB SSD • MOTU UltraLite
Naiant MSH-2's •   TOA K1's • Beyer TG 153c's •  AT 853 (4.7kmod darktrain) • Countryman B3's (1 k mod)  + other assorted mics

Offline taper420

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Re: MOTU UltraLite and external L-Ion Batts?
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2007, 08:04:23 AM »
no resistors... yes fuses.

SLA's tend to lose voltage as they drain... so while they may be ~14 volts when fully charged, this will begin tapering off to the point that perhaps only 9 volts are available toward the end. This is probably the reason that the ultralite will take a range of voltages. If it only took 12 then you would maybe only get half the life out of the battery. Lithium Ion's are not like this. They will hold a steady voltage until the die, but then they die suddenly. There is no dip in voltage to warn of the decrease in charge. Interesting they say they'll take up to 24 volts.... their responce to me stated only up to 18.
Magic wands > magic box > magic bucket

Offline ArchivalAudio

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Re: MOTU UltraLite and external L-Ion Batts?
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2007, 11:27:57 AM »
taper420
cool!

what size  (how small or large) fuses do you have in line
on your SLA to your ultralite
~ Archival Audio ~
Archiving Worthy Music
since 1986 & digitally since 1995

https://www.facebook.com/ArchivalAudio/

Main Mics: Milab VM-44 Links • Milab DC-196's (Matched  Pair)  • MBHO KA500 or KA300 • Line Audio CM3's
PreAmps:  Naiant LittleBox • Naiant [Milab VM44] TinyBox • Naiant PIPsqueak
Recorders: MixPre 10T •  Tascam DR-100 mkIII • Sony M-10 

macMini 3Ghz i7 16GB Ram 500GB SSD • MOTU UltraLite
Naiant MSH-2's •   TOA K1's • Beyer TG 153c's •  AT 853 (4.7kmod darktrain) • Countryman B3's (1 k mod)  + other assorted mics

Offline ArchivalAudio

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Re: MOTU UltraLite and external L-Ion Batts?
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2007, 02:17:01 PM »

so here is
a reply I sent w/ more questions
I also CC'd to tech support, as all of my corrrispondence has been with "sales", because tech never answered my inquiry

Thank you for your reply.

I do wonder is that 7 watt draw with or with out the phantom?  I will always be using Phantom power to power my mics.
also
Since there is no physical bus/DC power switch like on the traveler, how far (or low) does the voltage need to drop in the external supply before it "switches" back to bus power?
in the manual on PG 19 under the heading
Bus Power versus DC power....
the entire paragraph is some what less than helpful
which source is favored?
it states which ever is the highest voltage, but how low is does the voltage have to drop before it automatically switches to BUS power?
(not answered)
and if I am running my laptop off my internal battery (contrary to what is stated in the paragraph)  IT does matter , as I want to reserve as much battery time for my iBook and not bus power the ultralite.  hence powering it with a battery and not bus power.

next paragraph
Turining off the ultralite

also in the sleep/ off  mode how much draw is  the "very little practical impact"

I know some of this will come with field experience

but If I am trying to record a 2+ hour event for instance
I know that without buspower from my iBook that is easily achieved, in my experience  with Bus power and Phantom running expecting more than 2 hours is unlikely, which leaves little room for  extra on time errors (turning the equipment on too early).



thanx for your reply
~ Archival Audio ~
Archiving Worthy Music
since 1986 & digitally since 1995

https://www.facebook.com/ArchivalAudio/

Main Mics: Milab VM-44 Links • Milab DC-196's (Matched  Pair)  • MBHO KA500 or KA300 • Line Audio CM3's
PreAmps:  Naiant LittleBox • Naiant [Milab VM44] TinyBox • Naiant PIPsqueak
Recorders: MixPre 10T •  Tascam DR-100 mkIII • Sony M-10 

macMini 3Ghz i7 16GB Ram 500GB SSD • MOTU UltraLite
Naiant MSH-2's •   TOA K1's • Beyer TG 153c's •  AT 853 (4.7kmod darktrain) • Countryman B3's (1 k mod)  + other assorted mics

Offline ArchivalAudio

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Re: MOTU UltraLite and external L-Ion Batts?
« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2007, 02:21:06 PM »
so here was the reply I got from sales:

MOTU has not tested the UltraLite in terms of how low an external
voltage must be before the unit switches to Firewire bus power.  The
UltraLite is designed to operate with input voltage as low as 9v.

then my reply
wow
that's weird
since the manual states that the ultralite is powewred  by : "The source that is currently supplying the greatest voltage."
so can you tell me  how much voltage is supplied by the firewire bus?


his reply

That probably depends on the model of computer.  You'd have to check
with Apple for that info.


which I found as a pdf of the developers manual



~ Archival Audio ~
Archiving Worthy Music
since 1986 & digitally since 1995

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Main Mics: Milab VM-44 Links • Milab DC-196's (Matched  Pair)  • MBHO KA500 or KA300 • Line Audio CM3's
PreAmps:  Naiant LittleBox • Naiant [Milab VM44] TinyBox • Naiant PIPsqueak
Recorders: MixPre 10T •  Tascam DR-100 mkIII • Sony M-10 

macMini 3Ghz i7 16GB Ram 500GB SSD • MOTU UltraLite
Naiant MSH-2's •   TOA K1's • Beyer TG 153c's •  AT 853 (4.7kmod darktrain) • Countryman B3's (1 k mod)  + other assorted mics

Offline ArchivalAudio

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Re: MOTU UltraLite and external L-Ion Batts?
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2007, 02:24:24 PM »
so I sent a
rteply
as I have been some what dissatisified with the less than clear answers

and CC'd this to Tech support

its funny though there is aparently no Customer service at MOTU?

thanx
I see
well...
I thought since your units are made to interface with apples products
that some one there may know...

Still curious why no on from tech support has responded, as this seem to be a tech question

with a google search
of:
apple firewire bus supplied voltage for iBook G4

I found the developer PDF

and it stated:
■ provides up to 7watts o f peak power when the computer system is on or the power adapter is connected

Sounds like some one at MOTU knew this as that is the draw of the ultra lite... right?

also shows this:
Unregulated DC;12.0–16.8V no load when operating with battery or power adapter

which it would seem that unless I have over 16.8v to the MOTU
ultralite
it will "automatically" be switched to BUS power since 16.8v is higher than 12v,
is that true?

could you forward these questions to tech support?

is there an engineer or devloper that would be able to answer when the ultralite actually switches to bus power?
since there is no physical switch like on the traveler, I notice the wall wort supply that shipped with it is only 15v dc. One might assume that that is enough not to draw bus power, but at what point does change...

really I know that some one there has some answers, and I am sure there are "varibles" to the conditions and answers
but skirting around the answers is not a way to address them.



thanx

and I appreciate the time that you have taken, I am just still waiting answers...
~ Archival Audio ~
Archiving Worthy Music
since 1986 & digitally since 1995

https://www.facebook.com/ArchivalAudio/

Main Mics: Milab VM-44 Links • Milab DC-196's (Matched  Pair)  • MBHO KA500 or KA300 • Line Audio CM3's
PreAmps:  Naiant LittleBox • Naiant [Milab VM44] TinyBox • Naiant PIPsqueak
Recorders: MixPre 10T •  Tascam DR-100 mkIII • Sony M-10 

macMini 3Ghz i7 16GB Ram 500GB SSD • MOTU UltraLite
Naiant MSH-2's •   TOA K1's • Beyer TG 153c's •  AT 853 (4.7kmod darktrain) • Countryman B3's (1 k mod)  + other assorted mics

Offline ArchivalAudio

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Re: MOTU UltraLite and external L-Ion Batts?
« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2007, 02:28:15 PM »
tech finally replied with this:

 The Ultralite can only be powered off your computers Firewire bus or using a DC adapter. It is not possible to power it using a battery pack. The Traveler features a 4pin XLR battery power jack that allows you to connect a standard DC battery pack for remote recording.




What a bunch of lies....

I replied , but it was friday after the east coast was shut down (after 5 )

perhaps they will reply
yo might tell I was a bit miffed

here's what I said:
hi
well
I know this is not a true statement...

as there are others running them off Sealed Lead Acid batteries in the field
I think the questions that I asked  are straight forward for the company that designed this unit

there is much conflicting information that I have gotten from  the manual
and from the suggestions of Dave aka magic dave in sales

I have heard that some folks are using Lithium Ion batteries and others are using SLA batteries

the real Question is:
at what voltage does the Ultralite switch from "DC Adaptor"  (which would for me be a external battery, but you could think of it as a wall wort)  to the Firewire BUS power?

as stated in the manual that the ultralite is powewred  by : "The source that is currently supplying the greatest voltage."

so then when exactly does it switch?  what voltage is that? over the 16 volts that my iBook proivides

is there some one (a developer perhaps) that I can call and talk to?
I really don't think the question is that difficult to answer, or at least it doesn't seem that it should be.

I know of another person (via online forums posts) that runs his ultralite off a 12v SLA  and it appears to work for him... and another that uses a Batterygeek 14-18-118  to power his
so yes the DC adaptor, can be a battery (DC source)

thanx
~ Archival Audio ~
Archiving Worthy Music
since 1986 & digitally since 1995

https://www.facebook.com/ArchivalAudio/

Main Mics: Milab VM-44 Links • Milab DC-196's (Matched  Pair)  • MBHO KA500 or KA300 • Line Audio CM3's
PreAmps:  Naiant LittleBox • Naiant [Milab VM44] TinyBox • Naiant PIPsqueak
Recorders: MixPre 10T •  Tascam DR-100 mkIII • Sony M-10 

macMini 3Ghz i7 16GB Ram 500GB SSD • MOTU UltraLite
Naiant MSH-2's •   TOA K1's • Beyer TG 153c's •  AT 853 (4.7kmod darktrain) • Countryman B3's (1 k mod)  + other assorted mics

Offline ArchivalAudio

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Re: MOTU UltraLite and external L-Ion Batts?
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2007, 12:03:58 AM »

ok
so here is the reply
I got
day before yesterday:


My apologies for the delay in a response, we have been quite inundated as of late.  The Ultralite will switch to bus power when the voltage supply from the wall is less than that of the the voltage supply from the firewire bus.  Therefore, if you would like to power your Ultralite off of an external supply, you should be sure that it is supplying a voltage greater than 18v.  Is there anything else I can help you with?

Have a good day,
MOTU Tech

I am gonna run some tests on my 12v SLA
Powersonic

I wired up my battery and alone it powers up the ultralite just fine
not for a treal test  to see duration

probably not til this weekend

more soon

peace


~ Archival Audio ~
Archiving Worthy Music
since 1986 & digitally since 1995

https://www.facebook.com/ArchivalAudio/

Main Mics: Milab VM-44 Links • Milab DC-196's (Matched  Pair)  • MBHO KA500 or KA300 • Line Audio CM3's
PreAmps:  Naiant LittleBox • Naiant [Milab VM44] TinyBox • Naiant PIPsqueak
Recorders: MixPre 10T •  Tascam DR-100 mkIII • Sony M-10 

macMini 3Ghz i7 16GB Ram 500GB SSD • MOTU UltraLite
Naiant MSH-2's •   TOA K1's • Beyer TG 153c's •  AT 853 (4.7kmod darktrain) • Countryman B3's (1 k mod)  + other assorted mics

Offline bluevolvo

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Re: MOTU UltraLite and external L-Ion Batts?
« Reply #25 on: May 17, 2007, 11:04:35 PM »
FWIW I have a Traveler and run it w/a 12V SLA 'cause I dig luggin' 7lbs around.  Never ran short of power running all 4 mic's w/phantom (say like 3+ hours/basic all night band sets in a bar, tho never ran tests to a dropout voltage).  My Firewire cable is 4 pin on the lappy so it can't supply bus power anyways (which is both a blessing and a curse).

If you're worried about running out of laptop battery and you only have a 6 pin Firewire Port on it, hack a cable to remove the power feed out and you'll run battery/Ext MOTU Jack only.

Finally someone that's had more fun with MOTU Tech Support than me...
full-on: AKG C414BXLS-ST/Neumann SKM184MT's/Oktava MK012's-COH > PMD671/MOTU Traveler+ADA8000/HD24XR|MX6650
down-low: AT831's > SP-SPSB-1 > iHP-120 (RockBox'd)
[p-mod UA-5 with/in between]

Offline ArchivalAudio

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Re: MOTU UltraLite and external L-Ion Batts?
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2007, 07:31:12 PM »
Hey
bluevolvo
thanx
sounds good either tomorrow or monday I am gonna set up my rig and just try it out
see how long it will all run...
my iBook has a higer voltage firewire bus than some other macbooks  or power books (of course it mine)
some mac books highest voltage is only 12v
mine has a range of       Unregulated DC;12.0–16.8V
rather than the high end of only 12v

I will report back soon
thanx for your post

I guess I am gonna have to dig luggin around my SLA  more now...
and yea fun from tech support
but
I will say that
MY
MOTU Ultralite
is way more trouble free (so far) than my Presonus Firebox ever was....

peace




~ Archival Audio ~
Archiving Worthy Music
since 1986 & digitally since 1995

https://www.facebook.com/ArchivalAudio/

Main Mics: Milab VM-44 Links • Milab DC-196's (Matched  Pair)  • MBHO KA500 or KA300 • Line Audio CM3's
PreAmps:  Naiant LittleBox • Naiant [Milab VM44] TinyBox • Naiant PIPsqueak
Recorders: MixPre 10T •  Tascam DR-100 mkIII • Sony M-10 

macMini 3Ghz i7 16GB Ram 500GB SSD • MOTU UltraLite
Naiant MSH-2's •   TOA K1's • Beyer TG 153c's •  AT 853 (4.7kmod darktrain) • Countryman B3's (1 k mod)  + other assorted mics

Offline ArchivalAudio

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Re: MOTU UltraLite and external L-Ion Batts?
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2007, 08:24:23 PM »
Ok so I tested my set up at home....
here's what I got


Set  (or) preset file
in Audio Desk 2.04 before battery power ( to enable just opening it)
this is a way I stoner proof  files before shows, to eliminate and screwups at gigs!

iBook G4 1.2ghz / 1.25GB Ram
7200 rpm 80GB drive / partitioned in to 2 ~ equal 1/2's

in battery power
open existing file
set levels
using Powersonic 12v 3.4 amp hr

turn off screen
mouse in and on then unplugged to save power
using OWC  (newer technoligies) higher capacity battery

nap on (not turned off) - usually I turn off nap  since I have installed CHUD Tools in the pref pannel I check not to allow Nap of the processor (this is diifferent than Hard drive nap or sleep)
Airport off



MOTU Ultralite w/48v phantom power on powering RODE NT5's
Headphones plugged in entire time   at    ~ -7db vol level


after 2 hrs 12 mins   @ 41% power

2 hrs 50 mins  ~ 21% power...
at
3 hours

16% battery power left on iBook

12v battery  @ 10.75 volts  after 3 hours

this all tells me that the external 12v SLA battery was in fact powering  the MOTU Ultralite


(this was all just set up in my living room....
playing CD's cranked up..)

now to test in the field




whicjh I will at
Spearhead
5.26.07
at the Cuthbert in Eugene
« Last Edit: May 25, 2007, 09:05:11 AM by ArchivalAudio »
~ Archival Audio ~
Archiving Worthy Music
since 1986 & digitally since 1995

https://www.facebook.com/ArchivalAudio/

Main Mics: Milab VM-44 Links • Milab DC-196's (Matched  Pair)  • MBHO KA500 or KA300 • Line Audio CM3's
PreAmps:  Naiant LittleBox • Naiant [Milab VM44] TinyBox • Naiant PIPsqueak
Recorders: MixPre 10T •  Tascam DR-100 mkIII • Sony M-10 

macMini 3Ghz i7 16GB Ram 500GB SSD • MOTU UltraLite
Naiant MSH-2's •   TOA K1's • Beyer TG 153c's •  AT 853 (4.7kmod darktrain) • Countryman B3's (1 k mod)  + other assorted mics

Offline ArchivalAudio

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Re: MOTU UltraLite and external L-Ion Batts?
« Reply #28 on: May 27, 2007, 04:33:03 PM »
more  field tests on my
MOTU Ultralite

after running at
Reeble Jar,  Blackalicious & Spearhead
@ the Cuthbert Amphitheatre  Eugene OR

iBook G4 1.2GHZ / 1.25 GB Ram OSX 10.3.9
7200rpm 80Gb HD Partitioned  in to 2 

MOTU AudioDesk 2.04
MOTU Ultralite (firmware v1.15)

Ultralite Powered by PowerSonic 3.4 AmpHour 12v SLA

48V Phantom ON to power RODE NT5's 
110° ORTF  Just in front of the Board ~ 10 up
24/44.1


turned off Airport
Screen illumination off  most of the time...

I used one battery in my iBook for the first 2 bands

Reeble Jar played 40 mins

Blackalicious played  59 mins

I switched batteries in the IBook before Spearhead
(which ended up at 42% after their set)

Spearhead played 2 hrs 8 mins

the 12v SLA was at 11.88v  after running all three...
so this still tells me that
it was powering this the whole time, and I was still not running off firewire bus power.

but this is great!
except I am sill luggin abound my heavy lead acid abttery
but it did manage to power it for what my needs were

I post these results  so others can  have the info
and that its out here

peace thru music!



 
~ Archival Audio ~
Archiving Worthy Music
since 1986 & digitally since 1995

https://www.facebook.com/ArchivalAudio/

Main Mics: Milab VM-44 Links • Milab DC-196's (Matched  Pair)  • MBHO KA500 or KA300 • Line Audio CM3's
PreAmps:  Naiant LittleBox • Naiant [Milab VM44] TinyBox • Naiant PIPsqueak
Recorders: MixPre 10T •  Tascam DR-100 mkIII • Sony M-10 

macMini 3Ghz i7 16GB Ram 500GB SSD • MOTU UltraLite
Naiant MSH-2's •   TOA K1's • Beyer TG 153c's •  AT 853 (4.7kmod darktrain) • Countryman B3's (1 k mod)  + other assorted mics

 

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