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Author Topic: 4 Channel Field Mixer or Multi channel mixing board?  (Read 4623 times)

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Offline NOLAfishwater

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4 Channel Field Mixer or Multi channel mixing board?
« on: May 04, 2007, 02:11:06 PM »
I run a PMD660 but was thinking about buying a mixer so I can run 2 sets of mics. I was looking at this Rolls 4 Channel mixer for field use.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=364536&is=REG&addedTroughType=search



or I was looking at this other one:Sign Video ENG-44 4-Channel Portable Field Audio Mixer

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=438841&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

If someone knows of another affordable 4 ch mixer, please let me know.


The alternative is to run a mixing board into either my PMD660 or into my laptop. Here is one of the mixers I was looking at:Samson MDR1064 - 10 Channel Audio Mixer

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=331846&is=REG&addedTroughType=search



do you think I would be wasting my money and should just save up and buy a 4 channel field recorder

Offline Shawn

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Re: 4 Channel Field Mixer or Multi channel mixing board?
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2007, 02:32:13 PM »
This is a matter of opinion, and certainly some folks will disagree with me....

4 channels are great, and if you have a specific use for them then go for it, but if you are just doing typical audience recording your money would probably be better spent on two great channels. With that being said since I made the move to 4 track field recording I absolutley love it. I went with 4 track because I had some very specific needs (doing matrixes and being able to spot mic) and they required more than 2 channels. The added bonus is that I can do 4 mic audience recording when the feeling hits me.

easy jim

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Re: 4 Channel Field Mixer or Multi channel mixing board?
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2007, 02:36:24 PM »
You'll be better off with a 4 channel recorder where you can capture the tracks discreetly.  4 mic mixes, depending on microphone placement, are prone to phasing issues/comb filter effects when mixed-on-the-fly.  Similarly with SBD + mic matrix recordings, unless your mics are either on stage or within 20-25' of the PA/stage, you'll have too much delay between the feeds to mix on the fly.

It is better, and you have more control, doing post-mixes of anything more than 2 channels IMO...the only exception being 3 channel mic mixes like shotgun x2 + card/omni recordings.

Offline oleg

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Re: 4 Channel Field Mixer or Multi channel mixing board?
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2007, 05:43:08 PM »
stay away from the "affordable" mixers you did mention
both really dont worth allot
if you need something in Les then a grand range , used wendt4  or ad-260 

as others said for music recording 4 channel recorder will give you more freedom to mix it right after show
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Offline gusbud1

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Re: 4 Channel Field Mixer or Multi channel mixing board?
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2007, 09:03:40 PM »
You'll be better off with a 4 channel recorder where you can capture the tracks discreetly.  4 mic mixes, depending on microphone placement, are prone to phasing issues/comb filter effects when mixed-on-the-fly.  Similarly with SBD + mic matrix recordings, unless your mics are either on stage or within 20-25' of the PA/stage, you'll have too much delay between the feeds to mix on the fly.

It is better, and you have more control, doing post-mixes of anything more than 2 channels IMO...the only exception being 3 channel mic mixes like shotgun x2 + card/omni recordings.


I second the information given here.  Depending on what you would be using the 4 mic mix for, I would stick with a good 2 mic set up or a 3 mic setup for live show recording, based on the info easyjim gave (which I think is good info.) I like my 3 mic set up, and really couldn't justify 4 channels for concert recording. However it would be interesting to hear a 4 mic, spread omni recording or a 4 channel 2 omni + 2 card or hyper and throw it up against a 3 mic set up to see if there is a difference.
eathworks sr78(L)>rode nt2a (c-omni)>earthworks sr78(R)>sound devices 302>apogee minime 24/96khz s/pidf>tascam hd-p2

Offline NOLAfishwater

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Re: 4 Channel Field Mixer or Multi channel mixing board?
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2007, 01:51:46 PM »
Thanks for all the great input fellas.

Offline ArchivalAudio

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Re: 4 Channel Field Mixer or Multi channel mixing board?
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2007, 02:02:43 AM »
NOLAfishwater
glad to see your post!

and I agree.. so far

what about modding the pre's in your 660 ???
any one got Ideas for that?


peace


~ Archival Audio ~
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since 1986 & digitally since 1995

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Main Mics: Milab VM-44 Links • Milab DC-196's (Matched  Pair)  •  Busman BSC2 BusBox (K21-O, K41-SC, K11-C)  • Line Audio CM3's
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stirinthesauce

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Re: 4 Channel Field Mixer or Multi channel mixing board?
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2007, 07:21:12 PM »
Ran across this.  It is a passive 4:2 line mixer.  No batts, nothing needed.  Just 4 mic pre's and a recorder on the other end.  Not to bad a price, supposedly sounds great from the little I've read on it.

http://www.brentaverill.com/products/index.asp?itemnum=4


Offline NOLAfishwater

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Re: 4 Channel Field Mixer or Multi channel mixing board?
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2007, 11:55:31 PM »
That unit looks interesting. I will have to give them a call to see what it is all about. The only bad thing is that it doesn't look like you can actually moniter the individual levels for each mic or for that matter, any of them. I am going to give them a call to see if I can get more info on them. Until then, I think I am going to start a thread on either the Rolls or the Sign 4 channel field mixers. Thanks for the input.

stirinthesauce

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Re: 4 Channel Field Mixer or Multi channel mixing board?
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2007, 01:08:23 AM »
That unit looks interesting. I will have to give them a call to see what it is all about. The only bad thing is that it doesn't look like you can actually moniter the individual levels for each mic or for that matter, any of them. I am going to give them a call to see if I can get more info on them. Until then, I think I am going to start a thread on either the Rolls or the Sign 4 channel field mixers. Thanks for the input.

I stumbled on a thread on Gearslutz, basically the same question you asked.  Thread is here: 

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/remote-possibilities-acoustic-music-location-recording/123934-box-sum-4-channels-2-remote-work.html

Most of the items listed are not suitable (read cost effective) for tapers but the box I linked above seemed to be interesting, just for the fact that it appears to be very sturdy, and idiot proof (no batteries, no pan knobs, no preamps, no nothing).  Just a simple way to sum 4 channels to 2 in the field. 

Offline Kindguy

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Re: 4 Channel Field Mixer or Multi channel mixing board?
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2007, 02:19:39 AM »
Not sure how attached you are to the 660. You could sell & pick up a Mod R4?

A recorder in next on my list. Trying to decide between a 2 or 4 channel? After running weeks 722 I really want one.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2007, 02:21:53 AM by Kindguy »
TDS!

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Offline dointhatrag

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Re: 4 Channel Field Mixer or Multi channel mixing board?
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2007, 10:43:14 AM »
here are some great 3 mike mixes on a 2 track recorder, when I can offord the 4th mike, I will get it.

http://www.archive.org/details/avalonallstars2007-03-06.Schoeps-Neumann-Sonosax.flac

http://www.archive.org/details/avalonallstars2007-03-07.Schoeps-Neumann-Sonosax.flac


remember the most important part of recording, Your opinion is the only one that matters !!




Schoeps + Neumann + DPA - Sonosax PR - Apogee Mini Me - 24/96

Offline dointhatrag

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Re: 4 Channel Field Mixer or Multi channel mixing board?
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2007, 10:48:23 AM »
here is a good recording of schoeps FOB plus SND vocals (4 inputs) on a two track recorder.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mc_gSM29lVQ

And if you got yourself a good pair of field headphones ( or inner ears)  you dont need to have level meters on every input, just overload LED's is all you really need.



« Last Edit: May 17, 2007, 10:51:05 AM by dointhatrag »
Schoeps + Neumann + DPA - Sonosax PR - Apogee Mini Me - 24/96

Offline NOLAfishwater

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Re: 4 Channel Field Mixer or Multi channel mixing board?
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2007, 10:20:49 AM »
did you have 3 mics into your video camera or did you mix the audio to the video post show? Were the vocal coming via phantom power condensers or did you patch off the board? That is some funky shtufffff. It sounds really good.

Offline dointhatrag

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Re: 4 Channel Field Mixer or Multi channel mixing board?
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2007, 03:54:21 PM »
did you have 3 mics into your video camera or did you mix the audio to the video post show? Were the vocal coming via phantom power condensers or did you patch off the board? That is some funky shtufffff. It sounds really good.

I will try to explain the setup as easy as possible:

Lineage = Schoeps CMXY4v (stage lip, @ 10 feet) + Vocals (board r/l out balanced) - SX-PR (mixer) - 722 - (Balanced analog out) - Beachtek DXA-4 - Samsung Camcorder (mic input).

Audio was mixed on the fly into the 722, the audio you hear is from the MINIDV tape from the camcorder.

If you like what you hear/see visit www.jhickeymusic.com and record his gigs if you are near.

Peace.
Schoeps + Neumann + DPA - Sonosax PR - Apogee Mini Me - 24/96

 

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