Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: 4 Channel Field Mixer or Multi channel mixing board?  (Read 4492 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline NOLAfishwater

  • is not taping much these days
  • Trade Count: (72)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 6348
  • Gender: Male
  • I LIKE FISHIN
4 Channel Field Mixer or Multi channel mixing board?
« on: May 04, 2007, 02:11:06 PM »
I run a PMD660 but was thinking about buying a mixer so I can run 2 sets of mics. I was looking at this Rolls 4 Channel mixer for field use.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=364536&is=REG&addedTroughType=search



or I was looking at this other one:Sign Video ENG-44 4-Channel Portable Field Audio Mixer

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=438841&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

If someone knows of another affordable 4 ch mixer, please let me know.


The alternative is to run a mixing board into either my PMD660 or into my laptop. Here is one of the mixers I was looking at:Samson MDR1064 - 10 Channel Audio Mixer

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=331846&is=REG&addedTroughType=search



do you think I would be wasting my money and should just save up and buy a 4 channel field recorder

Offline Shawn

  • is old and tired
  • Trade Count: (11)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3255
  • Gender: Male
Re: 4 Channel Field Mixer or Multi channel mixing board?
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2007, 02:32:13 PM »
This is a matter of opinion, and certainly some folks will disagree with me....

4 channels are great, and if you have a specific use for them then go for it, but if you are just doing typical audience recording your money would probably be better spent on two great channels. With that being said since I made the move to 4 track field recording I absolutley love it. I went with 4 track because I had some very specific needs (doing matrixes and being able to spot mic) and they required more than 2 channels. The added bonus is that I can do 4 mic audience recording when the feeling hits me.

easy jim

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: 4 Channel Field Mixer or Multi channel mixing board?
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2007, 02:36:24 PM »
You'll be better off with a 4 channel recorder where you can capture the tracks discreetly.  4 mic mixes, depending on microphone placement, are prone to phasing issues/comb filter effects when mixed-on-the-fly.  Similarly with SBD + mic matrix recordings, unless your mics are either on stage or within 20-25' of the PA/stage, you'll have too much delay between the feeds to mix on the fly.

It is better, and you have more control, doing post-mixes of anything more than 2 channels IMO...the only exception being 3 channel mic mixes like shotgun x2 + card/omni recordings.

Offline oleg

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 835
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm a proud Jew
    • you can find me here
Re: 4 Channel Field Mixer or Multi channel mixing board?
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2007, 05:43:08 PM »
stay away from the "affordable" mixers you did mention
both really dont worth allot
if you need something in Les then a grand range , used wendt4  or ad-260 

as others said for music recording 4 channel recorder will give you more freedom to mix it right after show
oleg kaizerman(gebe)hollyland
kaizeroaudio-rentals -sound for film/tv sales

schoepses, gefells, sankens, sennheisers....all kind of shit ....ends with deva 16  fusion ,zfr,788, 744, hhb
http://groups.google.com/group/sellbuyexchange-film-videoaudiogear

Offline gusbud1

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 276
  • Gender: Male
  • I need more cowbell.
Re: 4 Channel Field Mixer or Multi channel mixing board?
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2007, 09:03:40 PM »
You'll be better off with a 4 channel recorder where you can capture the tracks discreetly.  4 mic mixes, depending on microphone placement, are prone to phasing issues/comb filter effects when mixed-on-the-fly.  Similarly with SBD + mic matrix recordings, unless your mics are either on stage or within 20-25' of the PA/stage, you'll have too much delay between the feeds to mix on the fly.

It is better, and you have more control, doing post-mixes of anything more than 2 channels IMO...the only exception being 3 channel mic mixes like shotgun x2 + card/omni recordings.


I second the information given here.  Depending on what you would be using the 4 mic mix for, I would stick with a good 2 mic set up or a 3 mic setup for live show recording, based on the info easyjim gave (which I think is good info.) I like my 3 mic set up, and really couldn't justify 4 channels for concert recording. However it would be interesting to hear a 4 mic, spread omni recording or a 4 channel 2 omni + 2 card or hyper and throw it up against a 3 mic set up to see if there is a difference.
eathworks sr78(L)>rode nt2a (c-omni)>earthworks sr78(R)>sound devices 302>apogee minime 24/96khz s/pidf>tascam hd-p2

Offline NOLAfishwater

  • is not taping much these days
  • Trade Count: (72)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 6348
  • Gender: Male
  • I LIKE FISHIN
Re: 4 Channel Field Mixer or Multi channel mixing board?
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2007, 01:51:46 PM »
Thanks for all the great input fellas.

Offline ArchivalAudio

  • Trade Count: (15)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2732
  • Gender: Male
  • Team Milab | TeamVW:2004 TDI Beetle -Malone1.5
Re: 4 Channel Field Mixer or Multi channel mixing board?
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2007, 02:02:43 AM »
NOLAfishwater
glad to see your post!

and I agree.. so far

what about modding the pre's in your 660 ???
any one got Ideas for that?


peace


~ Archival Audio ~
Archiving Worthy Music
since 1986 & digitally since 1995

https://www.facebook.com/ArchivalAudio/

Main Mics: Milab VM-44 Links • Milab DC-196's (Matched  Pair)  •  Busman BSC2 BusBox (K21-O, K41-SC, K11-C)  • Line Audio CM3's
PreAmps:  SD USB-Pre2  • Naiant LittleBox • Naiant [Milab VM44] TinyBox (no bodies) • Naiant PIPsqueak
Recorders: Zoom F8 • Tascam DR-680 • Tascam DR-60D • Marantz PMD 661 • Sony M-10 

macMini 3Ghz i7 16GB Ram 500GB SSD • MOTU UltraLite
RODE  NT5's • Naiant MSH-2's •   TOA K1's • Beyer TG 153c's •  AT 853 (4.7kmod darktrain) • Countryman B3's (1 k mod)  + other assorted mics
==============================
Extra:  Denecke AD-20   |    Presonus FireB

stirinthesauce

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: 4 Channel Field Mixer or Multi channel mixing board?
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2007, 07:21:12 PM »
Ran across this.  It is a passive 4:2 line mixer.  No batts, nothing needed.  Just 4 mic pre's and a recorder on the other end.  Not to bad a price, supposedly sounds great from the little I've read on it.

http://www.brentaverill.com/products/index.asp?itemnum=4


Offline NOLAfishwater

  • is not taping much these days
  • Trade Count: (72)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 6348
  • Gender: Male
  • I LIKE FISHIN
Re: 4 Channel Field Mixer or Multi channel mixing board?
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2007, 11:55:31 PM »
That unit looks interesting. I will have to give them a call to see what it is all about. The only bad thing is that it doesn't look like you can actually moniter the individual levels for each mic or for that matter, any of them. I am going to give them a call to see if I can get more info on them. Until then, I think I am going to start a thread on either the Rolls or the Sign 4 channel field mixers. Thanks for the input.

stirinthesauce

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: 4 Channel Field Mixer or Multi channel mixing board?
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2007, 01:08:23 AM »
That unit looks interesting. I will have to give them a call to see what it is all about. The only bad thing is that it doesn't look like you can actually moniter the individual levels for each mic or for that matter, any of them. I am going to give them a call to see if I can get more info on them. Until then, I think I am going to start a thread on either the Rolls or the Sign 4 channel field mixers. Thanks for the input.

I stumbled on a thread on Gearslutz, basically the same question you asked.  Thread is here: 

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/remote-possibilities-acoustic-music-location-recording/123934-box-sum-4-channels-2-remote-work.html

Most of the items listed are not suitable (read cost effective) for tapers but the box I linked above seemed to be interesting, just for the fact that it appears to be very sturdy, and idiot proof (no batteries, no pan knobs, no preamps, no nothing).  Just a simple way to sum 4 channels to 2 in the field. 

Offline Kindguy

  • Team Bama
  • Trade Count: (11)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 6391
  • Gender: Male
Re: 4 Channel Field Mixer or Multi channel mixing board?
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2007, 02:19:39 AM »
Not sure how attached you are to the 660. You could sell & pick up a Mod R4?

A recorder in next on my list. Trying to decide between a 2 or 4 channel? After running weeks 722 I really want one.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2007, 02:21:53 AM by Kindguy »
TDS!

DPA 4023> aeta PSP-2> Apogee Mini Me > R-44

http://www.basicallyfrightened.com/

Offline dointhatrag

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 95
  • Gender: Male
    • my band
Re: 4 Channel Field Mixer or Multi channel mixing board?
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2007, 10:43:14 AM »
here are some great 3 mike mixes on a 2 track recorder, when I can offord the 4th mike, I will get it.

http://www.archive.org/details/avalonallstars2007-03-06.Schoeps-Neumann-Sonosax.flac

http://www.archive.org/details/avalonallstars2007-03-07.Schoeps-Neumann-Sonosax.flac


remember the most important part of recording, Your opinion is the only one that matters !!




Schoeps + Neumann + DPA - Sonosax PR - Apogee Mini Me - 24/96

Offline dointhatrag

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 95
  • Gender: Male
    • my band
Re: 4 Channel Field Mixer or Multi channel mixing board?
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2007, 10:48:23 AM »
here is a good recording of schoeps FOB plus SND vocals (4 inputs) on a two track recorder.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mc_gSM29lVQ

And if you got yourself a good pair of field headphones ( or inner ears)  you dont need to have level meters on every input, just overload LED's is all you really need.



« Last Edit: May 17, 2007, 10:51:05 AM by dointhatrag »
Schoeps + Neumann + DPA - Sonosax PR - Apogee Mini Me - 24/96

Offline NOLAfishwater

  • is not taping much these days
  • Trade Count: (72)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 6348
  • Gender: Male
  • I LIKE FISHIN
Re: 4 Channel Field Mixer or Multi channel mixing board?
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2007, 10:20:49 AM »
did you have 3 mics into your video camera or did you mix the audio to the video post show? Were the vocal coming via phantom power condensers or did you patch off the board? That is some funky shtufffff. It sounds really good.

Offline dointhatrag

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 95
  • Gender: Male
    • my band
Re: 4 Channel Field Mixer or Multi channel mixing board?
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2007, 03:54:21 PM »
did you have 3 mics into your video camera or did you mix the audio to the video post show? Were the vocal coming via phantom power condensers or did you patch off the board? That is some funky shtufffff. It sounds really good.

I will try to explain the setup as easy as possible:

Lineage = Schoeps CMXY4v (stage lip, @ 10 feet) + Vocals (board r/l out balanced) - SX-PR (mixer) - 722 - (Balanced analog out) - Beachtek DXA-4 - Samsung Camcorder (mic input).

Audio was mixed on the fly into the 722, the audio you hear is from the MINIDV tape from the camcorder.

If you like what you hear/see visit www.jhickeymusic.com and record his gigs if you are near.

Peace.
Schoeps + Neumann + DPA - Sonosax PR - Apogee Mini Me - 24/96

Offline Colin Liston

  • Trade Count: (8)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2168
  • Gender: Male
Re: 4 Channel Field Mixer or Multi channel mixing board?
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2007, 11:42:00 AM »
How about one of these?

http://www.marenius.se/mm4210.htm

MM-4210 is a true professional Stereo Mixer for portable use.  I picked one up recently. It's pretty cool little box.
Occasionally....music mics record

Offline NOLAfishwater

  • is not taping much these days
  • Trade Count: (72)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 6348
  • Gender: Male
  • I LIKE FISHIN
Re: 4 Channel Field Mixer or Multi channel mixing board?
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2007, 12:19:20 PM »
How about one of these?

http://www.marenius.se/mm4210.htm

MM-4210 is a true professional Stereo Mixer for portable use.  I picked one up recently. It's pretty cool little box.

How muc did it set you back?  I was searching for a retailer online and couldn't find one. It looks interesting. The mixers that I was looking at were about $500. I like the idea of 4 mics, just not having to edit for separate wave files. Actually I just saw the Rolls model on sale for $385. The only thing is there are no reviews on the product. To mix on the fly takes a great deal of practice to produce masterful recordings. I think I am going to have to get my PMD modded. We will see what happens. Thanks for the heads up.

kirk97132

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: 4 Channel Field Mixer or Multi channel mixing board?
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2007, 09:46:54 PM »


How muc did it set you back?  I was searching for a retailer online and couldn't find one.
$725
http://www.marenius.se/indexeng.htm

Offline dointhatrag

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 95
  • Gender: Male
    • my band
Re: 4 Channel Field Mixer or Multi channel mixing board?
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2007, 10:57:17 AM »
Trew Audio now has a SX-PR in EX. condition for 2800.00

That is a steal compared to 5 grand for a new one.


http://www.trewaudio.com/consignment/mixers.htm#4591
Schoeps + Neumann + DPA - Sonosax PR - Apogee Mini Me - 24/96

Offline NOLAfishwater

  • is not taping much these days
  • Trade Count: (72)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 6348
  • Gender: Male
  • I LIKE FISHIN
Re: 4 Channel Field Mixer or Multi channel mixing board?
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2007, 11:17:26 AM »
Looks like a nice deal, but if I could spend that much money, I would just go ahead and buy a 744. they also had this piece of equipment, but don't know much about it:

PSC M4 MkII. Includes Portabrace case with shoulder strap and boompole fader. Condition: Good. $800 USD
ITEM #4190

Offline dointhatrag

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 95
  • Gender: Male
    • my band
Re: 4 Channel Field Mixer or Multi channel mixing board?
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2007, 12:08:15 PM »
Looks like a nice deal, but if I could spend that much money, I would just go ahead and buy a 744. they also had this piece of equipment, but don't know much about it:

PSC M4 MkII. Includes Portabrace case with shoulder strap and boompole fader. Condition: Good. $800 USD
ITEM #4190

I saw that too !!

great thing about TREW is, on the used stuff, they let you try it for 5 days, And if its not a fit in your setup, you can send it back.

now for more funk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLjxPgXoPWs




Schoeps + Neumann + DPA - Sonosax PR - Apogee Mini Me - 24/96

Offline ArchivalAudio

  • Trade Count: (15)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2732
  • Gender: Male
  • Team Milab | TeamVW:2004 TDI Beetle -Malone1.5
Re: 4 Channel Field Mixer or Multi channel mixing board?
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2007, 05:21:50 PM »
don't buy a rolls...
they are cheap

and really it is helpful for any on the fly mixing to actually be able to solo each channel independently and not just the overall output
then you can sorta make some vague judgments on what each channel sounds like

I used  a Mackie 1402 VLZ for years for this, but obviously it is not really portable, unless you can get wall power, which often I could. into my Fostex D-5 DAT master (not real portable either) sometimes using mic level out into my Denecke AD-20 then optical iknto the fostex, a better A-->D converter  then the one in the fostex...

~ Archival Audio ~
Archiving Worthy Music
since 1986 & digitally since 1995

https://www.facebook.com/ArchivalAudio/

Main Mics: Milab VM-44 Links • Milab DC-196's (Matched  Pair)  •  Busman BSC2 BusBox (K21-O, K41-SC, K11-C)  • Line Audio CM3's
PreAmps:  SD USB-Pre2  • Naiant LittleBox • Naiant [Milab VM44] TinyBox (no bodies) • Naiant PIPsqueak
Recorders: Zoom F8 • Tascam DR-680 • Tascam DR-60D • Marantz PMD 661 • Sony M-10 

macMini 3Ghz i7 16GB Ram 500GB SSD • MOTU UltraLite
RODE  NT5's • Naiant MSH-2's •   TOA K1's • Beyer TG 153c's •  AT 853 (4.7kmod darktrain) • Countryman B3's (1 k mod)  + other assorted mics
==============================
Extra:  Denecke AD-20   |    Presonus FireB

Offline NOLAfishwater

  • is not taping much these days
  • Trade Count: (72)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 6348
  • Gender: Male
  • I LIKE FISHIN
Re: 4 Channel Field Mixer or Multi channel mixing board?
« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2007, 05:44:28 PM »
Thanks for the heads up. I ended up buying an Alesis 8 channel mixer with USB out. It has 4 XLR inputs, so now I can start experimenting with mixing. The only thing is that the only time that I will be able to use this rig is when I can set up a station with the mixer, 4 mics, and my laptop. Have not had the opportunity to run it in public, but in trials at home recording music coming from my stereo, it has proven to be pretty impressive. The only thing that I cannot figure out is what settings have to be on in order to monitor the recording from the laptop. I have monitored it from the mixing board, but there is pretty noticeable hiss coming through the headphones. However, once I save the file in Cubase, I can play it back through Windows Media Player to actually hear what I have recorded. In addition, I haven't quite figured out how to track out selections in Cubase, or would I have to use a post recording program like Sony Sound Forge? Either way, I don't think I spent very much money to experiment. The Alesis was $150 and met my minimum requirements of having USB out and 4 Ch. XLR in.

Offline wbrisette

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2855
  • Gender: Male
    • Homepage
Re: 4 Channel Field Mixer or Multi channel mixing board?
« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2007, 11:22:24 PM »
if you need something in Les then a grand range , used wendt4  or ad-260 

I haven't seen any Wendt X-4 units going for less than a grand. The X-2's I have, but not the X-4 or X-5 units. Have you really seen these going for under a grand?

Wayne
Mics: Earthworks SR-77 (MP), QTC-1 (MP)

Editing: QSC RMX2450, MOTU 2408 MK3, Earthworks Sigma 6.2

Offline beefstew

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 675
  • Gender: Male
  • 18
Re: 4 Channel Field Mixer or Multi channel mixing board?
« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2007, 11:36:42 PM »
Thanks for the heads up. I ended up buying an Alesis 8 channel mixer with USB out. It has 4 XLR inputs, so now I can start experimenting with mixing. The only thing is that the only time that I will be able to use this rig is when I can set up a station with the mixer, 4 mics, and my laptop. Have not had the opportunity to run it in public, but in trials at home recording music coming from my stereo, it has proven to be pretty impressive. The only thing that I cannot figure out is what settings have to be on in order to monitor the recording from the laptop. I have monitored it from the mixing board, but there is pretty noticeable hiss coming through the headphones. However, once I save the file in Cubase, I can play it back through Windows Media Player to actually hear what I have recorded. In addition, I haven't quite figured out how to track out selections in Cubase, or would I have to use a post recording program like Sony Sound Forge? Either way, I don't think I spent very much money to experiment. The Alesis was $150 and met my minimum requirements of having USB out and 4 Ch. XLR in.

use a headphone output on the lappy to monitor the mix

and for tracking - CD Wave is your best friend :)
*Audio*
Mics:
SP-CMC-19
Panasonic WM61a

Recorders:
MZ-RH910 (Hi-MD)
Sony TC-WE435 (CASS)

*Video*
Canon ZR-500 [Mini DV]
54" Tripod

I spend most of my money on gambling, booze, and women. The rest i spend foolishly.

Offline NOLAfishwater

  • is not taping much these days
  • Trade Count: (72)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 6348
  • Gender: Male
  • I LIKE FISHIN
Re: 4 Channel Field Mixer or Multi channel mixing board?
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2007, 10:46:40 AM »
For some reason, I am having trouble monitoring through the laptop. Can't figure out why? It seems like the only time I can listen to the recording is when the file has been saved. Anyone use Cubase LE?

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.453 seconds with 53 queries.
© 2002-2017 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF
Website Design by Foxtrot Media, Inc., a Baltimore Website Company