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Author Topic: split omnis onstage ?'s  (Read 3882 times)

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Offline cmquinn

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Re: split omnis onstage ?'s
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2007, 04:17:01 PM »
Never run onstage before, and was just wondering what would be a good seperation for onstage omnis. I was thinking of maybe one at each side of the bands setup on the front of the stage. I will also be running some cards on the front of the stage prob. in an xy DFC. any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

-Tyler

Did Living Daylights a few years back with AKG414s as split omnis. Placed both mics about 8 ft apart. One between sax and drums on between bass and drums. When you listen on home stereo through speakers you can tell where each band member was.

Offline cfox

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Re: split omnis onstage ?'s
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2007, 05:33:40 PM »
NOS
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Offline boojum

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Re: split omnis onstage ?'s
« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2007, 06:36:55 PM »
This is always a good starting point: http://www.dpamicrophones.com/.   Go to Stereo Techniques.  It is all there.

Cheers
Nov schmoz kapop.

Offline PH

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Re: split omnis onstage ?'s
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2007, 05:28:07 AM »
I agree with those in the larger spread camp. I like to get to the outside edge of stage setup, to be just inside the edge of the band on both sides of the stage, and somewhere in the middle area between the audience, pa, and stage setup. This is only true if you are also running a SBD mix of some sort to blend with later. Without that, it will take the perfect placement to pull a good balanced mix out of your omni recording. In that case, I would suggest Card or Subcard with a modest split of 1-3' max. As has been said, placement is key and IME it takes major skill to pull off really good 2-track stage tapes. Not only that, but the right band and right stage setup.

For bluegrass and small club shows, I usaully run my CCM5's in card setting and on the ORTF bar and clamp it to the front side of the center vocal mic stand or put up a small stand in front of that and just below instrument height, pointed upwards about 30 degrees. That seems to work really well for me and it blends well with the flat SBD feeds. Having the mics centered and so close to sound source usually reduces the phase issues of blending significantly.

Sounds crazy, but the best place to put some killer LD omni's onstage would be equal distance on either side of the drummer, about 5' high and right in the middle of the stage and band. I would love to find a band that will let me do that!

One time at a Del McCoury instore show at a local bookstore, they were using one mic and one stand since it was such a small stage. AT4033.
I clamped my CCM5's directly underneath the 4033 on the same stand, ran them card/ortf. Oh Momma!
The best part was that after the first song, the PA was crackling so they just turned it off and played the rest of the set unamplified. Out of habit, they kept playing around the mics just as they always would. Having Del lean in and sing directly into the Schoeps at 18 inches or less is one my all time taping highlights.

Don't be afraid to get those mics onstage. That's the best place for them.
Cheers, Phil
« Last Edit: August 28, 2007, 05:29:32 PM by nashphil »

Offline fandelive

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Re: split omnis onstage ?'s
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2020, 12:39:28 AM »
Exhuming this very interesting topic. I might try onstage omnis myself tomorrow for the first time.

You're talking about the ideal width both mics need to be split apart to get a good stereo separation, but what about the height? Would rising them up at waist level be enough? Chest, head, or even higher?
« Last Edit: February 10, 2020, 01:00:49 AM by fandelive »
Mics : Sony ECM-717, MM-HLSC-1 (4.7k mod), SP-CMC-4 (at853), 2x DPA4060, 2x DPA4061
Battery box : SP-SPSB-6524 w/bass roll-off filter, MM-CBM-1
Preamp : Church Audio CA-9100
Recorders : Sony MZR-700PC, Edirol R-09HR, Tascam DR-2d

Offline morst

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Re: split omnis onstage ?'s
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2020, 03:26:12 AM »
Exhuming this very interesting topic. I might try onstage omnis myself tomorrow for the first time.

You're talking about the ideal width both mics need to be split apart to get a good stereo separation, but what about the height? Would rising them up at waist level be enough? Chest, head, or even higher?
When I run onstage (I don't have omni mics but I do have wide-pattern cardioids, aka open cardioid, hypocardioid, subcardioid etc) and I have a direct sound board feed available, I usually put the onstage mics as LOW as I can, in order to avoid the vocal monitor wedges. My goal when running on stage is to get the sound of the instruments with the stage mics, and let the direct board feed enhance (or carry) the vocals.
This might not work with what you wish to record, but it is good for rock & roll!



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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: split omnis onstage ?'s
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2020, 01:35:30 PM »
Low works fine.  I've run boundary mounted omni taped to the floor surface itself at times, as long as there is no problem with floor vibrations and foot stomps as mentioned previously.  Helps to get the mics higher if there are acoustic instruments which are amplified and you are trying to pick up the direct acoustic radiation from them which is not super energetic in comparison to the sound level in the room.

Keep in mind that omnis on-stage will be behaving not only in a time-of-arrival way (which is what the stereo image calculators and tables and stereo configuration suggestions are based upon), but also in a level-difference stereo manor due to sources being significantly closer to one microphone or the other.  That means that the typical suggestions for spacing omnis when used at a distance (like in the center of the room or back at the board) don't necessarily apply in the same way and you'll want to consider how loud each source on stage is and how that relates to the microphone positions.

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Re: split omnis onstage ?'s
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2020, 01:39:20 PM »
I've run very sucessfully with a ceiling mount with about 6' separation and about 5' from the stage lip with about a meter

Offline fandelive

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Re: split omnis onstage ?'s
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2020, 07:36:00 AM »
Stage setup for tonight: 2x DPA 4061 at knees height. XY.

Edit: I think I'm gonna replace those omnis with cards. Sennheiser MKE's.

« Last Edit: February 11, 2020, 08:18:27 AM by fandelive »
Mics : Sony ECM-717, MM-HLSC-1 (4.7k mod), SP-CMC-4 (at853), 2x DPA4060, 2x DPA4061
Battery box : SP-SPSB-6524 w/bass roll-off filter, MM-CBM-1
Preamp : Church Audio CA-9100
Recorders : Sony MZR-700PC, Edirol R-09HR, Tascam DR-2d

Offline fandelive

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Re: split omnis onstage ?'s
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2020, 07:37:38 AM »
Balcony setup: 2x at853 XY (middle of the bar) + 2x dpa4060 AB (at each ends of the bar).
Mics : Sony ECM-717, MM-HLSC-1 (4.7k mod), SP-CMC-4 (at853), 2x DPA4060, 2x DPA4061
Battery box : SP-SPSB-6524 w/bass roll-off filter, MM-CBM-1
Preamp : Church Audio CA-9100
Recorders : Sony MZR-700PC, Edirol R-09HR, Tascam DR-2d

Offline lmgbtapes

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Re: split omnis onstage ?'s
« Reply #25 on: February 25, 2020, 05:53:04 PM »
I love running healy on stage with CA-14s just to capture ambiance and matrix with SBD. SBD alone is cold and heartless, stage omnis alone lose vocals and sound boomy, but mixed together with some EQ to reduce lowend makes for some beautiful tapes :headphones:

Have a lot of luck getting to place onstage in otherwise tricky situations too due to the low profile nature of a healy setup. Able to 'set it and forget it' in less than a few seconds. Cover equipment with a black rag and blends right into the stage.

 

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