Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: inexpensive 3 channel mixer for "on the fly" m/s recordings?  (Read 2314 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline heyitsmejess

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1208
  • Gender: Male
inexpensive 3 channel mixer for "on the fly" m/s recordings?
« on: September 03, 2007, 05:22:33 PM »
im looking at under $200 to spend.  is there anything?

im assuming it would have to have pan controls for each line.

thanks in advance!
cause we zig and zag between good and bad
stumble and fall on right and wrong


http://www.rumpkemountainboys.org/

Offline DSatz

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (35)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 2880
  • Gender: Male
Re: inexpensive 3 channel mixer for "on the fly" m/s recordings?
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2007, 08:49:32 PM »
jess, you don't need a mixer or a matrix setup of any kind to record M/S. You can record the "M" and "S" microphone signals directly onto two tracks of whatever stereo recording device you've got.

In fact, that's the coolest way by far, because then you can then choose whatever ratio of M to S you prefer in playback, and adjust the stereo image width to your preferred setting as you listen over your good loudspeakers at home. If you want to play it back on a different system in a different environment, you can make a different choice if you want. You can go anywhere from mono to realistic stereo to super-wide stereo, all with the same basic sound quality--just vary the amount of the "S" signal you send into your matrix or mixer during playback.

Also, since the "S" microphone's output is often several dB lower in level than the "M" channel microphone's, you can set the recorder so that both signals peak just below 0 dB (full scale) and in that way, get a better signal-to-noise ratio. Of course it's nice if you can monitor in left/right stereo while you're recording, but you can do that by matrixing the outputs of your recorder--the M and S signals from the microphones still go directly into the inputs of the recorder.

There are people who dematrix the M and S into left and right and then record those signals, but it throws away half the potential of the M/S technique when things are done that way--and headphone monitoring provides only a very poor basis for deciding what levels (what relationship between M and S signal levels) to set for the dematrixing process.

--best regards
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline heyitsmejess

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1208
  • Gender: Male
Re: inexpensive 3 channel mixer for "on the fly" m/s recordings?
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2007, 07:40:59 AM »
thanks for the info!

where could i read more about m/s micing technics?

my understanding was one card pointed directly at the source, and 2 omnis ran healey (with the cardioid intersecting), or a figure 8 mic inplace of the 2 omnis. ive also heard of a omni/card technic as well, but cant find much on it.
cause we zig and zag between good and bad
stumble and fall on right and wrong


http://www.rumpkemountainboys.org/

Offline tms

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 429
  • Gender: Male
Re: inexpensive 3 channel mixer for "on the fly" m/s recordings?
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2007, 04:22:26 PM »
A nak mx-100 can do a 3 mic mix into two stereo channels, can be made to run on 2 9 volt batteries and acts as a pre-amp too

im looking at under $200 to spend.  is there anything?

im assuming it would have to have pan controls for each line.

thanks in advance!
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Ben Franklin

SP-CMC-4 (AT853) > SP battery box > Edirol R-09

Offline SmokinJoe

  • Trade Count: (63)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 4203
  • Gender: Male
  • "75 and sunny"... life is so much simpler.
    • uploads to archive.org
Re: inexpensive 3 channel mixer for "on the fly" m/s recordings?
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2007, 08:39:41 PM »
Yes, you could run 2 omnis and a card into an MX-100 and get a great result.  CapnHook has a recent NRPS show on the LMA which runs like that and it impresses the hell out of me.  But, it's not technically M/S.

Mixer issues aside, there is a fundamental difference between the figure 8 sideways and the healy omnis...  the math and physics are completely different.  I'm not saying it's wrong, or bad, just that it's not really figure 8, therefore it's not really M/S.

The L and R side of the figure 8 are in one capsule, and one wave form, which grabs from the sides and very little from dead ahead.   In post you break this up into two seperate wave forms, identical except one is upside down.  The healy omnis are for the most part in phase, and will pick up from dead ahead.

Here is a sales pitch, but it has a good picture.  http://tracktion.mackie.com/products/800r/midsize.html

I recently did a "real Mid-side recording" at Garaj Mahal, with the mic stand just on the stage, hence I'm pretty much micing the band's instruments, inside of the stacks.  I recording the raw Mid > Left, and Side > Right, and mixed them at home into Left = 40% mid + 60%side, Right= 40%mid + 60% inverted sided.  I liked it.

I also recently taped Little Feat from the audience and ran two similar rigs... 2 sets of Nak CM-300s, one with cards NOS, and one with omnis healy.  Then I brought them home and listened to them.  The healy method had some appeal to it, in particular a little more bass and ambience, but I ended up seeding the tape made with the cards, mostly because it had less audience chatter.

Mics: Schoeps MK4 & CMC5's / Gefell M200's & M210's / ADK-TL / DPA4061's
Pres: V3 / ST9100
Decks: Oade Concert Mod R4Pro / R09 / R05
Big Rig: split snake > Focusrite & Presonus Pres > ADAT > Alesis HD-24 > Protools 11
Daughter's rig:  AT4050ST > Busman Hybrid R4
Photo: Nikon D700's, 2.8 Zooms, and Zeiss primes
Playback: Raspberry Pi > Modi2 Uber > Magni2 > HD650

Offline 108Ω

  • + pace, amore e felicita +
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 11248
  • Gender: Male
  • Waiting on the next cladogenetic event...
    • Oceana North America
Re: inexpensive 3 channel mixer for "on the fly" m/s recordings?
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2007, 08:50:40 AM »
Here's a cool freebie for ya!
http://www.voxengo.com/product/msed/
"Peace is for everyone"
        - Norah Jones
 “Success is moving from failure to failure with renewed enthusiasm.”
         - Peter Mayer

Offline heyitsmejess

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1208
  • Gender: Male
Re: inexpensive 3 channel mixer for "on the fly" m/s recordings?
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2007, 05:40:33 PM »
what would one offer for an mx-100 with no power supply?

and how would you run power to it?  one of those universal power pak things?

btw...thanks for the advice, yall!
cause we zig and zag between good and bad
stumble and fall on right and wrong


http://www.rumpkemountainboys.org/

Offline tms

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 429
  • Gender: Male
Re: inexpensive 3 channel mixer for "on the fly" m/s recordings?
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2007, 04:55:07 PM »
CapnHook has the one I modified to run on a pair of 9v batteries.  Normally it runs on +10 and -10 with a ground.  The modification I did was just to take the power connector off and replace it with a CB radio connector from radioshack, then make a cable to a pair of 9v battery connectors.  You could also just hard wire the cable into the box.  The mx-100 is great, but about the size and weight of a brick.

what would one offer for an mx-100 with no power supply?

and how would you run power to it?  one of those universal power pak things?

btw...thanks for the advice, yall!
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Ben Franklin

SP-CMC-4 (AT853) > SP battery box > Edirol R-09

Offline heyitsmejess

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1208
  • Gender: Male
Re: inexpensive 3 channel mixer for "on the fly" m/s recordings?
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2007, 06:20:07 PM »
thanks!
cause we zig and zag between good and bad
stumble and fall on right and wrong


http://www.rumpkemountainboys.org/

Offline Roger Gustavsson

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 423
Re: inexpensive 3 channel mixer for "on the fly" m/s recordings?
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2007, 01:41:44 PM »
CapnHook has the one I modified to run on a pair of 9v batteries.  Normally it runs on +10 and -10 with a ground.  The modification I did was just to take the power connector off and replace it with a CB radio connector from radioshack, then make a cable to a pair of 9v battery connectors.  You could also just hard wire the cable into the box.  The mx-100 is great, but about the size and weight of a brick.

Hi tms,

What about that mic/line mod on the MX-100? Some 470k resistors but where? Sorry, for being off topic....

Roger

Offline tms

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 429
  • Gender: Male
Re: inexpensive 3 channel mixer for "on the fly" m/s recordings?
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2007, 10:21:33 PM »
I have no clue about the line/mic modification, sorry,
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Ben Franklin

SP-CMC-4 (AT853) > SP battery box > Edirol R-09

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.122 seconds with 52 queries.
© 2002-2020 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF