Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: Small 8 channel A/D...does such a thing exist?  (Read 3465 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline hoserama

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 312
  • Gender: Male
Small 8 channel A/D...does such a thing exist?
« on: October 20, 2007, 03:49:34 AM »
I have an RME digiface with 3 lightpipe optical inputs. Already got a rack sized A/D with XLR + 1/4" inputs. What I'd love to find is something that is reasonably small, can be hooked up to the digiface, and has 8 1/4" inputs. XLR inputs would be fine too.

And yes--I do know about the multiface. Might end up having to trade in. Would just love to find something that would give me another 8 inputs without lugging around a full rack of stuff.
Audio: Countryman B3 + SBD feeds
Wireless Receivers: Lots of those
Antennas: Lots of those
Cables: Lots of those
Recorders: Cymatic Utrack24, Cymatic LR16, RME Multiface, Zoom F8, (3) Tascam 680, (2) Tascam 2D, Zoom H6, Zoom H4n, and a graveyard of irivers/nomads/minidiscs.

Offline Evil Taper

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2771
  • Gender: Male
  • Going pro...no time for taping now
Re: Small 8 channel A/D...does such a thing exist?
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2007, 05:17:50 AM »
There's alot of 8 channel pre strips with build in ADCs (Onyx 800R for example) but if you're running a Multiface you might as well just sell it and buy an all in one.

FWIW the RME converters sound arguably as good as Apogee converters and they actually sound better than the Pro Tools HD converters (and that system is like $8k for the smallest config) so I'd maybe recommend purchasing an RME Fireface and be done with it.  The quality of the Fireface is unreal for the pricetag (especially used) and it will do everything you need it to do.
Really not very evil at all now...

Offline analoghell

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: Small 8 channel A/D...does such a thing exist?
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2007, 04:39:23 AM »
The two cheap and chearfull options are:

A) Fostex VC8 - 8 in & out on RCA Phonos

b) Behringer - yeh, dirty word. But 8 XLR mic amp ins as well as 8 ins and outs on balanced jacks.

Both amazingly cheap.

ac

Offline Evil Taper

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2771
  • Gender: Male
  • Going pro...no time for taping now
Re: Small 8 channel A/D...does such a thing exist?
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2007, 01:34:39 AM »
there's a reason cheap gear is cheap.
Really not very evil at all now...

Offline analoghell

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: Small 8 channel A/D...does such a thing exist?
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2007, 02:40:17 PM »
He specified small, not audiophile ;-)

The VC8 is the smallest lightpipe converter I know of. And the behringer the next smallest with mic pre's.

Any others?

They are both good VFM at the bottom end of the market.

But of course you get what you pay for down that end.

ac

Offline Evil Taper

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2771
  • Gender: Male
  • Going pro...no time for taping now
Re: Small 8 channel A/D...does such a thing exist?
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2007, 04:13:39 PM »
Well if you just want the converters you can buy an ADAT 8 track and just use it as a converter box and output into something else.  Those converters are going to be better than anything behringer has to offer.
Really not very evil at all now...

Offline analoghell

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: Small 8 channel A/D...does such a thing exist?
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2007, 07:02:29 PM »
Well aside from the size issue, i think you'd be surprised. The Behringer post dates the last run of ADATS by 10 years and technology has come a long way in quality and price since then.

It's easy to piss on Behringer because of their budget status, but that Ultragain ADAT thing is actually amazing VFM. The converters are really quite good and the mic amps better than they should be for the money. Certainly, bypassing the mic pre's reveals just how good the ADC's are.

Side by side with a Digidesign 192 @ 44.1 it's not such a one horse race as you might expect. Yeh, i know the 192 isn't considered to be top-of-the-line but it's what 90% of the pro studios use and a reasonable comparison.

And the line level inputs on the Behringer are *way* better than the Fostex VC8. No contest there.

ac

Offline MattD

  • Taper Emeritus
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 4641
  • Gender: Male
Re: Small 8 channel A/D...does such a thing exist?
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2007, 07:19:55 PM »
Does that sonosax box exist yet? There's also Metric Halo and MOTU gear, but I don't know if that qualifies as small to you.
Out of the game … for now?

Offline analoghell

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: Small 8 channel A/D...does such a thing exist?
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2007, 09:13:06 PM »
I'm think hoserama was after a ADAT lightpipe format ADC to use with his digiface - in which case I don't think Metric Halo or MOTU make an ADC Lightpipe box. Only firewire / USB interfaces.

Do Sonosax have something lined up?

ac

Does that sonosax box exist yet? There's also Metric Halo and MOTU gear, but I don't know if that qualifies as small to you.

Offline Evil Taper

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2771
  • Gender: Male
  • Going pro...no time for taping now
Re: Small 8 channel A/D...does such a thing exist?
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2007, 05:48:57 AM »
Well aside from the size issue, i think you'd be surprised. The Behringer post dates the last run of ADATS by 10 years and technology has come a long way in quality and price since then.

It's easy to piss on Behringer because of their budget status, but that Ultragain ADAT thing is actually amazing VFM. The converters are really quite good and the mic amps better than they should be for the money. Certainly, bypassing the mic pre's reveals just how good the ADC's are.

Side by side with a Digidesign 192 @ 44.1 it's not such a one horse race as you might expect. Yeh, i know the 192 isn't considered to be top-of-the-line but it's what 90% of the pro studios use and a reasonable comparison.

And the line level inputs on the Behringer are *way* better than the Fostex VC8. No contest there.

ac


The only thing Behringer sells that's decent are their headphone amps.  They don't last too long but they're cheap enough to replace them a few times before you spend as much as you would on a Rane unit.

So, please explain your method of shootout between the Behringer and Digi 192 units and what were the conclusive results?

ALSO, what studio would ever run their 192 at 44.1Khz on a modern session?  That's like buying a Ferrari but only driving it 30mph.  (The 192 is a semi-pro level ADC at bes.  Apogee and RME converters are in the same ballpark price range and blow them away.  Once you get into the big dollar units like the Lavry gear you're on a different planet altogether.)
Really not very evil at all now...

Offline analoghell

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: Small 8 channel A/D...does such a thing exist?
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2007, 07:09:52 AM »
Have you actually heard the Beheringer?

Out "method of shootout" was simply to use our (professional) ears! We have some 192s, a 96 a VC8 and Behringer. We were all surprised at how not-bad the Behringer sounded. As an extra set of i/o's for inserts and emergencies it's a handy box to have.

Almost every pro studio in the world records at 44.1/24bit. Very very few run higher than that for pop/rock/dance music.
Classical and film score places often run sessions at higher sample rates but these are in the minority.

Calling the 192 semi-pro is ridiculous. I can't count the number of Professional (and v/expensive studios) i've been in that use raw front end 192s for their i/o.
Yes, quite a few places run something more expensive in front, but not many. They are the defacto professional standard - in Europe anyway.
The audiofiles (and their new clothes) might not like it, but it's the way things are.

ac

Offline Evil Taper

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2771
  • Gender: Male
  • Going pro...no time for taping now
Re: Small 8 channel A/D...does such a thing exist?
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2007, 09:17:41 AM »
That's cool man.  Here in the states we record everything at this highest sample rate the system can handle.  You know, for better wave smootheness and top end air that you can't achieve with a 44.1 rate.  Very true that everyone uses the Pro Tools HD stuff nowadays but that doesn't mean it's the boss hog at all, it just works really good with Pro Tools.  All of the Digidesign gear is kinda BS compared to similarly priced gear from other manufacturers but Digi make you buy it for their software to work so they kinda have us all by the scrote.

So when doing your shootout did you use a single source multed to both converters and then blind A/B on the monitors or what?
Really not very evil at all now...

Offline analoghell

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: Small 8 channel A/D...does such a thing exist?
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2007, 12:50:51 PM »
It's true the Digi stuff is way overpriced. But they have the market cornered because it's the standard and boy are they taking advantage of it!

That's the way the pro marketplace work's I suppose.

We didn't do a formal shootout ie it wasn't totally blind. But we did parallel out our listening tests to each of the converts and a/b/c/d between them. It was quite an eye opener.

Depending on how you look at it, the Behringers are a bargain or the 192's are a complete rip off! I suppose both is true in reality.

It's not always wise to work at the highest sample rate a system gives as it leaves no leeway to push your system creatively; albeit at the expense of that last 1% of sonic perfection. Driving PT to the max all the time can really be a somewhat hair raising experience. And, in my experience, plenty of the bigger US studios work at 44.1/48 - even with 192 capability - for that very reason on a lot of "pop" projects. Even the Nashville perfectionists often plump for stability & safety rather than persue that last 1% that 99.9% of listeners can't hear on their shitty iPods.

Anyways, back to the topic in hand. Googling hasn't revealed any other smaller-than-1u-rack size lightpipe ADC units. I would have expected there to be some niche audiophile designs out there?

ac

That's cool man.  Here in the states we record everything at this highest sample rate the system can handle.  You know, for better wave smootheness and top end air that you can't achieve with a 44.1 rate.  Very true that everyone uses the Pro Tools HD stuff nowadays but that doesn't mean it's the boss hog at all, it just works really good with Pro Tools.  All of the Digidesign gear is kinda BS compared to similarly priced gear from other manufacturers but Digi make you buy it for their software to work so they kinda have us all by the scrote.

So when doing your shootout did you use a single source multed to both converters and then blind A/B on the monitors or what?

Offline MattD

  • Taper Emeritus
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 4641
  • Gender: Male
Re: Small 8 channel A/D...does such a thing exist?
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2007, 06:19:05 PM »
I'm think hoserama was after a ADAT lightpipe format ADC to use with his digiface - in which case I don't think Metric Halo or MOTU make an ADC Lightpipe box. Only firewire / USB interfaces.

Metric Halo's MIO definitely has an 8-channel ADAT optical interface.
Out of the game … for now?

Offline analoghell

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: Small 8 channel A/D...does such a thing exist?
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2007, 07:07:11 PM »
Yes it does. But it's not a lightpipe converter. It's a computer interface. I'm pretty sure you can't just use it as an ADC->Lightpipe converter which is what hoserama was after (i think).

http://www.mhlabs.com/metric_halo/products/mio/

Metric Halo's MIO definitely has an 8-channel ADAT optical interface.

Offline MattD

  • Taper Emeritus
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 4641
  • Gender: Male
Re: Small 8 channel A/D...does such a thing exist?
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2007, 07:31:30 PM »
I *think* their software allows you to program a "boot mode" and run standalone. However, you'd lose all access to input and mixing functions. Not a big deal if you're running an external mixer and feeding the MIO at line level, though.

Doable, but a PITA.
Out of the game … for now?

Offline analoghell

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: Small 8 channel A/D...does such a thing exist?
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2007, 06:14:00 AM »
I *think* their software allows you to program a "boot mode" and run standalone. However, you'd lose all access to input and mixing functions. Not a big deal if you're running an external mixer and feeding the MIO at line level, though.

Doable, but a PITA.

Interesting!
ac

Offline TNJazz

  • Ninja
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 5537
  • Gender: Male
  • "Those who know, know."
    • NINJA DYNAMITE
Re: Small 8 channel A/D...does such a thing exist?
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2007, 01:44:53 PM »
Well if you just want the converters you can buy an ADAT 8 track and just use it as a converter box and output into something else.  Those converters are going to be better than anything behringer has to offer.

The Behringer ADA8000 uses the Alesis A/D chips in it.  The suck factor of the Behringer is in the preamps.  The A/D converters in it are fairly decent.

I would take the Behringer any day of the week over an ADAT in terms of converters.
Check out my band!  --> http://www.ninjadynamite.com

Offline TNJazz

  • Ninja
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 5537
  • Gender: Male
  • "Those who know, know."
    • NINJA DYNAMITE
Re: Small 8 channel A/D...does such a thing exist?
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2007, 01:47:45 PM »
yes you can. 

MattD's post above is correct.

Yes it does. But it's not a lightpipe converter. It's a computer interface. I'm pretty sure you can't just use it as an ADC->Lightpipe converter which is what hoserama was after (i think).

http://www.mhlabs.com/metric_halo/products/mio/

Metric Halo's MIO definitely has an 8-channel ADAT optical interface.
Check out my band!  --> http://www.ninjadynamite.com

Offline Evil Taper

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2771
  • Gender: Male
  • Going pro...no time for taping now
Re: Small 8 channel A/D...does such a thing exist?
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2007, 01:57:40 AM »
Oh well that's interesting.  What about someone just building something simple and custom using Burr Brown converters?
Really not very evil at all now...

Offline alpine85

  • Trade Count: (7)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 329
  • Gender: Male
    • avatar (full-size)
Re: Small 8 channel A/D...does such a thing exist?
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2007, 03:20:35 PM »
hi all --

long time lurker here, 1st time poster.  was going to start a new thread but this one seems relevant...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/480537-REG/Edirol_Roland_M_10MX_M_10MX_10_Channel_Battery.html

Edirol M-10MX

anyone used one of these?  no xlr's, but 10 balanced 1/4-inch ins, and 24/96 digital out, plus battery or AC power.  no phantom power either, but it seems like it might be good for cheap mics that need plugin power (AT-822>JB3, for example?)

is the a/d converter any good?
MICS: AKG CK-1/CK-63/CK-8/CK-22 --> AKG 460/JW460/JW452
CABLES: GAKcables and Mogami
PRES: Apogee Mini-Me, SD USBPre-2, Busman UA-5
RECORDERS: Oade R-44, Tascam DR-100-MKII, JB3

Offline TNJazz

  • Ninja
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 5537
  • Gender: Male
  • "Those who know, know."
    • NINJA DYNAMITE
Re: Small 8 channel A/D...does such a thing exist?
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2007, 03:28:08 PM »

is the a/d converter any good?


It's $139 for 10 channels of A/D.  Remember, you get what you pay for.

Is it atrociously terrible?  Probably not.  Is it better than marginal?  Probably not.
Check out my band!  --> http://www.ninjadynamite.com

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.17 seconds with 63 queries.
© 2002-2020 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF