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Author Topic: 7xx pre amp questions  (Read 3431 times)

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Online ts

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7xx pre amp questions
« on: November 13, 2007, 02:01:46 PM »
I need someone to describe these for me and compare them with other popular pre's. I got stuck in a discussion recently about not running an external pre and found myself lacking in answers. I usually run a V3 in front but I have been leaving it home more often.

Also, what mics are 7xx users (no external pre) finding to work best. I'm still using JW460's but thinking of trying something different. Mk4's, 4022's or KM140's?

The Schoeps camp seems to think that their mics are more suited to what we do and that the DPA's are more for "professional" use. I love the KM140>V3 sound, but what do they sound like >722? I tape mostly in theaters or larger sized clubs. Rarely do I end up in large arenas. And ofcourse the outdoor stuff.

thanks
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Offline Brian

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Re: 7xx pre amp questions
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2007, 02:15:54 PM »
in my experience.....

the mid range is a little hyped(but not necessarily bad) and the low end isn't as tight as i'd like it.  nice clarity in the upper mids and highs.  the best recordings i've made with no external pre were with 4021s.  when i run my schoeps, i put the v2 in front to help tighten the low end up.

others may have different experiences. i've been wanting to try anhisr's neumanns straight into the 722.  i've heard recordings that sound great.  same with 480's, but i prefer the neumanns and dpa's over them straight into the 722. just a basic review, sorry. 

Offline H₂O

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Re: 7xx pre amp questions
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2007, 03:27:13 PM »
I only run Schoeps and what I have found is the 7xx pre-amp to be very brittle or harsh sounding with the xt's (no warmth).  With my setup I would never run without an external pre - which at present I run a PSP-2.

From what I have read on the board alot of people like AKGs > 7xx and DPA > 7xx; For Schoeps it almost always Schoeps > Pre > 7xx prefered over Schoeps > 7xx.  Don't know about Neumanns.

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Offline johnw

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Re: 7xx pre amp questions
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2007, 03:42:37 PM »
I run 140s>702 and really like it. I don't want a pre in front because I like the small size and I don't think a pre would add enough to make up for it. I previously ran JWmod460s>702 and haven't looked back.
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Offline Tim

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Re: 7xx pre amp questions
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2007, 05:11:36 PM »
in my experience.....

the mid range is a little hyped(but not necessarily bad) and the low end isn't as tight as i'd like it.  nice clarity in the upper mids and highs.  the best recordings i've made with no external pre were with 4021s.  when i run my schoeps, i put the v2 in front to help tighten the low end up.

others may have different experiences. i've been wanting to try anhisr's neumanns straight into the 722.  i've heard recordings that sound great.  same with 480's, but i prefer the neumanns and dpa's over them straight into the 722. just a basic review, sorry. 

Brian, I'd really like to hear that

my next mics will be neumann's
I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

Offline H₂O

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Re: 7xx pre amp questions
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2007, 05:35:51 PM »
Brian, I'd really like to hear that

my next mics will be neumann's

Tim - You already ran u89's; what nuemanns are you thinking about getting?

BTW - What are you running now?
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Online ts

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Re: 7xx pre amp questions
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2007, 07:49:53 AM »
I run 140s>702 and really like it. I don't want a pre in front because I like the small size and I don't think a pre would add enough to make up for it. I previously ran JWmod460s>702 and haven't looked back.

What do you find different between the JW's and the 140's>7xx? I find the JW's>7xx to be very pleasing. None of that harshness I sometimes get with the V3. So what are the technical differences between the two pre's? SD calls it the "Next Gen Pre", but I wonder how much different it is than the SD MP2. I use to run 184>MP2 and switched to 184>V3. What a difference.
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Offline JasonSobel

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Re: 7xx pre amp questions
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2007, 09:05:24 AM »
What do you find different between the JW's and the 140's>7xx? I find the JW's>7xx to be very pleasing. None of that harshness I sometimes get with the V3. So what are the technical differences between the two pre's? SD calls it the "Next Gen Pre", but I wonder how much different it is than the SD MP2. I use to run 184>MP2 and switched to 184>V3. What a difference.

well, the SD MP2 was (is) based on transformers, while the 7xx series is a transformerless design.  That's a pretty big difference between those two pres.

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Re: 7xx pre amp questions
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2007, 11:54:12 AM »
What do you find different between the JW's and the 140's>7xx? I find the JW's>7xx to be very pleasing. None of that harshness I sometimes get with the V3. So what are the technical differences between the two pre's? SD calls it the "Next Gen Pre", but I wonder how much different it is than the SD MP2. I use to run 184>MP2 and switched to 184>V3. What a difference.

well, the SD MP2 was (is) based on transformers, while the 7xx series is a transformerless design.  That's a pretty big difference between those two pres.

yup, the mp-2 uses lundahl transformers.  Definitly will add it's own distinct characterizations to the sound.  Some like, some dislike.  Myself, bring on the transformers  ;D  7xx pre is a transformerless design.

My opininion on the 7xx pre from the times I play with one, it sounds plenty fine by itself.  A bit bloated sounding in the lower regions with the schoeps.  Brian was spot on about it being a little loose.  However, I think those characteristics pair nicely with the neumanns.

It's all about preference.  I like running external pre's because it gives me options.  I know the specific characteristic I want sonically.  If I grow tired of that characteristic, I swap pre's.  Or often times mics  :P

Offline johnw

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Re: 7xx pre amp questions
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2007, 01:19:52 PM »
I run 140s>702 and really like it. I don't want a pre in front because I like the small size and I don't think a pre would add enough to make up for it. I previously ran JWmod460s>702 and haven't looked back.

What do you find different between the JW's and the 140's>7xx? I find the JW's>7xx to be very pleasing. None of that harshness I sometimes get with the V3. So what are the technical differences between the two pre's? SD calls it the "Next Gen Pre", but I wonder how much different it is than the SD MP2. I use to run 184>MP2 and switched to 184>V3. What a difference.

The JWmod463 is what I usually ran and it sounds great from anywhere DINA. The 140s sound a little better if run DIN in the right spot. I've heard great recordings with these XY as well, but those experiments haven't turned out as well for me. I haven't run ORTF yet though. I guess I would describe the 140s as warmer and a bit less detailed. Mostly I like the portability of 140s>702.
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Offline Tim

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Re: 7xx pre amp questions
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2007, 01:23:32 PM »
I ran the 140's X/Y last weekend at a bar show and am really, really happy with the results. It was a less than ideal taping situation, one of those nights where you are just hoping you leave with something you can listen to, and I got a solid tape.

They are pretty versatile mics. It had been a few years since I ran them.

I'll be interested in hearing your 40->702 tapes.
I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

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Re: 7xx pre amp questions
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2007, 01:52:15 PM »
i run the 480s into a 722 but now use the 148 in front all the time.   i didn't at first because i didn't want to lug it around but i really believe it sounds better.   to me the better sound with the 480s/148 is all about the warmth in the low end rather as others have mentioned.

gray (from gina's computer as i wait for the printer :) )

Offline boojum

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Re: 7xx pre amp questions
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2007, 02:10:07 PM »
I have Schoeps (CMC64's) and DPA's (4006TL's).  I think the response of the mics is dependent upon the room.  Last night I tried both sets in a good recording venue on a chorale.  I wound up favoring the DPA's with the near field grids, behind the conductor and about 7' up.  I have yet to test them with the other grids.  In this venue the Schoeps sounded a little shrill without the windscreens.  I should have tried the windscreens as they smooth the high end a bit.  The DPA's sounded very clear and true.  With one earplug out (ER-4B) the sound in both ears was identical. 

I resampled down from 24/48 to 16/44.1 and burned a CD and am listening to it.  Again, over my monitors (Paradigm bookshelfs), the DPA's sound better.

So, about the pre-amps.  They are good, clean, clear pre-amps. Can they be bested?  Sure.  But for a go-anywhere, do-anything compact solution to capturing fine sound, and doing it in the field with a minimum of fuss, these pre-amps are fine.  The SD 7xx line is simple and head and shoulders above a lot of hardware.  I am well pleased with mine.
Nov schmoz kapop.

Offline Tim

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Re: 7xx pre amp questions
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2007, 02:26:09 PM »
boojum - are you running a 744?

been curious as to what you were running, sounds like you're making some great tapes :)
I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

Offline boojum

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Re: 7xx pre amp questions
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2007, 07:01:12 PM »
^^^^ On the advice of Teddy, I am running two channels to try and learn that technique.  Then, and only then, four channels.  I can do four channels with my Mackie 1402-VLZ3 > SD 722 but I screw it up as much as not.  I think when it is four channel time I will get another 722 and link them so that I have identical sound paths.  Yes, yes, I know I will be running different mics, but I want to control the opportunities for error.  I.E., if there is a serious difference in the channels, it is most likely the mics.  I need to keep it simple.  With a 744T I am lugging a pre-amp around anyway, unless it is heavy metal.  ;o)  I like acoustic, especially classical.  Last night was rehearsals for the Bach Magnificat.

NB, I am still fighting my way up the learning curve here.  The DPA sound is uncolored.  I have not played with the different grids or the nylon balls which will modify the sound to be like the older tube mics.  There are three sets of balls in the kit I have. 

If you are considering omnis, the DPA 4006/4006TL kit with the bar, mic mounts, grids and nylon balls offer the equivalent seven different omnis in one setup.  It comes with the Samsonite case and the fitted foam for the various bits. That saves some money.  According to DPA, dust is not an issue, either.  They poured talcum powder on the 4006's diaphragms and found no measurable sound degradation: thick, high-tension membranes are the reason.  Ah lak 'em.

Cheers 8)

PS - as for the quality of the recordings, well, they are getting better.  But I always am a little disappointed. 
Nov schmoz kapop.

Offline Tim

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Re: 7xx pre amp questions
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2007, 07:20:16 PM »
I always forget that the 744 only has 2 channels of pre

I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

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Re: 7xx pre amp questions
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2007, 08:26:33 PM »
I'll echo most of what was posted above.

To my ears the 722 preamp sounds a bit loose and thumpy in the low end compared to the V3 and the Portico.  The latter all produce a tighter sound with all the mics I've tried.

For running straight into the 722, I think the HF bump of the C414s and KM140s sort of balances the thumpy lower end.   I ran 4023>V3>722 quite a bit and like it.  I ran 4023>722 for the first time last month and I think the recording sounds pretty good.  I have not run 4023>portico yet but maybe that will be something to run at xmasjam.

All things considered, if I have the energy to drag a full bag, I'll run portico ahead of the 722.  But any of those mics directly into the 722 still makes a fine recording from gear that will easily ride in the pocket of some cargo shorts.

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