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Author Topic: Preamp for the R-09  (Read 7204 times)

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Offline Mr.Fantasy

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Preamp for the R-09
« on: November 21, 2007, 01:43:03 PM »
I need some recommendations for a good preamp to put in front of my R-09...

I did my first recording the other night....just with the R-09 and some crappy mics of my buddies....

Any recommendations would be very greatly appreciated...

Or if someone would tell me some pre's to investigate....

I am really new to taping but I am REALLY new to the pre amp....
"I read somewhere that 77 percent of all the mentally ill live in poverty. Actually, I'm more intrigued by the 23 percent who are apparently doing quite well for themselves" ---Jerry Garcia

Modified Nak 300's -> PS2 -> R-09 (looking for a pre-amp but am very indecisive)

Offline mrruin

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Re: Preamp for the R-09
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2007, 01:46:51 PM »
my recommendation would be Church Audio's ST 9100. Small, with great sound and excellent value for money. Get the package with his mics and you are good to go with an awesome starter set for a low price. The R09 is the perfect recorder for that setup.
AT 943/h or U853/c > 3 wire "crown-royal" BB > ST 9100 preamp v2.0 > R-09
my shows: http://db.etree.org/mrruin *updated April 2nd 2007*
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Offline bgalizio

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Re: Preamp for the R-09
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2007, 02:11:06 PM »
Budget?

easy jim

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Re: Preamp for the R-09
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2007, 02:18:20 PM »
Pre amp choice should also be somewhat conditioned by the mics you will be using.  The biggest component of a rig's 'sound' is the mic/pre combo, followed by A>D/capture.  The Church Pre might be appropriate if you're just going to be using smaller/stealth oriented mics.  For more high end mics, you want to look into getting a pre that will compliemnt the mics (as well as have the right connections/output to feed your r-09).

So, what kind of mics do expect to be using with the pre?
« Last Edit: November 21, 2007, 02:20:44 PM by easyjim »

Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: Preamp for the R-09
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2007, 02:34:17 PM »
church pre...., good no matter whats in front of it.  w/an outboard phantom supply feeding the 9100, it sounds DAMN GOOD.

other than that..., my next step would be to drop 7 bills on an apogee Mini-MP

Offline Mr.Fantasy

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Re: Preamp for the R-09
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2007, 02:41:01 PM »
My actual budget is $3000...

See threads from a few months ago where I asked for commendations on mics... HERE

Couldn't bring myself to pull the trigger on anything until I needed a recorder for my college classes...so I thought it was a good excuse to buy one that could do a little more than that 8)

But, like I was saying, I couldn't pull the trigger because I really didn't (and still don't) know enough about this hobby to invest that much money...as in I don't think I would spend it properly...or I would regret it when I wasn't satisfied....

So I decided that I am going to make a little...Learners Rig....which is two prong...

1)something to get me to where I am making good recordings in the field.....

2)Processing these recordings on my computer...to track split and burn, as well as be able to tweak a little if there is something I am not happy with...


My large budget mics are going to be SKM184's I think...

I have my dads old set of Nak Cm300s....he saw something like 168 shows with Jerry, and that is pretty good for a guy living in Oklahoma....and he has got all his old masters which I am slowly transferring to Cds....

But the Naks are not modded for phantom.......

So is my situation convoluted enough for you?
"I read somewhere that 77 percent of all the mentally ill live in poverty. Actually, I'm more intrigued by the 23 percent who are apparently doing quite well for themselves" ---Jerry Garcia

Modified Nak 300's -> PS2 -> R-09 (looking for a pre-amp but am very indecisive)

Offline Belexes

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Re: Preamp for the R-09
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2007, 02:42:48 PM »
I like the ST-9100 in front of the R-09 and it's a wonderful combo.  I give the ST-9100 high marks.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2007, 02:49:15 PM by Belexes »
Busman Audio BSC1-K1/K2/K3/K4 > HiHo Silver XLR's > Deck TBD

CA-14 (c,o)/MM-HLSC-1 (4.7k mod)/AT853(4.7k mod)(c,o,h,sc)/CAFS (o)/CA-1 (o) > CA-9100 (V. 4.1)/CA-9200/CA-UBB > Sony PCM-D50/Sony PCM-M10

Offline Will_S

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Re: Preamp for the R-09
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2007, 03:07:44 PM »
My large budget mics are going to be SKM184's I think...

In that case I'd NOT recommend the Church preamp.  Apparently there are issues "unbalancing" these mics to go into the kind of input the 9100 has.
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,92069.msg1259439.html#msg1259439


I have my dads old set of Nak Cm300s....he saw something like 168 shows with Jerry, and that is pretty good for a guy living in Oklahoma....and he has got all his old masters which I am slowly transferring to Cds....

But the Naks are not modded for phantom.......

Perfect!  Then no need to bother with a Phantom power adapter, and probably no need to bother with a preamp just yet.  I'd pick up a stereo XLR(F) to 1/8" stereo mini cable and run the Naks straight into your R09 for a while.  (If the Naks have the old XLR > 1/4" cables, you'll need some new mic cables too, or you can cobble together a dual 1/4" female > 1/8" stereo male adapter, but it will be clunky - I used to run something like that into a D6 in the late 90s and it was a PITA).  The preamp in the R09 should be "good enough" for a short term solution as you learn where and how to set up your mics in different venues and situations.  This will have far more impact on the quality of your recordings than will a preamp.

Then, once you've figured out how to set up your mics (and have established this is really something you want to put a lot of time and money into), you'll be able to take full advantage of the extra quality the Neumanns and a preamp will bring you.  In the meantime listen to every SKM184 recording you can find and pay attention to what preamp(s) are most often being used on the recordings you like.  Then get one of those.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2007, 03:09:16 PM by Will_S »

Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: Preamp for the R-09
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2007, 03:10:35 PM »
what he said...
although I'll add that if you go w/the NAKS, then get the 9100 church pre to put behind them.
if you go w/the neumanns, find a used V2/v3
heaven !

Offline bgalizio

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Re: Preamp for the R-09
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2007, 03:11:01 PM »
With that kind of a budget, you can really open up to many good pres. You can pick from an AERCO MP-2, Sound Devices MP-2, Grace V2/V3, Apogee Mini-MP, etc. etc. Really depends on what mics you're running.

EDIT: I think you are making a wise choice in doing a "starter rig" based around the Naks to make sure you like this hobby. Play around with the Naks & Church pre and listen to a bunch of shows on the archive to see if you even want to move to different gear.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2007, 03:13:59 PM by bgalizio »

Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: Preamp for the R-09
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2007, 03:16:20 PM »
Smokin'Joe runs nak > church 9100 and pulls the heat pretty consistently.

although, my vote goes for 184>Mme
you should be able to put that together for $1600 or so.
then sell the r9 and get the new Sony D50 (digital input).
done, for under $2k (including sale of r9)

sort of a "do it right the first time" approach.
buy used.  If you dont like the hobby, sell it back to the section and you'll loose no money at all, and make someone else's day!

+T for wise shopping.


Offline digifish_music

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Re: Preamp for the R-09
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2007, 05:15:15 PM »
My actual budget is $3000...


If that's the case, forget the R-09 (sell it on eBay) and buy a Sound Devices 702 or 722. End of story, nothing else needed. Spend the remaining on mics.

I use a Sound Devices MixPre with my R-09 and find it to be a match made in heaven.



digifish
« Last Edit: November 21, 2007, 05:17:23 PM by digifish_music »
- What's this knob do?

Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: Preamp for the R-09
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2007, 05:16:56 PM »
dont listen !!!
these SD boxes are super , super nice.  but expensive for what they offer.
you'd be foolish to spend 2x on your deck than on your mics.

if the mixpre / MP2 sound so good...(and they do), then just pick one up on fleabay.  they are common.
the ENG crowed drools for these things and they are super easy to sell, if need be.

since you've already got the r9 and all...., that would be a wise shopper type investment.
then get those Neumanns!

Offline digifish_music

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Re: Preamp for the R-09
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2007, 05:19:36 PM »
dont listen !!!
these SD boxes are super , super nice.  but expensive for what they offer.
you'd be foolish to spend 2x on your deck than on your mics.

if the mixpre / MP2 sound so good...(and they do), then just pick one up on fleabay.  they are common.
the ENG crowed drools for these things and they are super easy to sell, if need be.

since you've already got the r9 and all...., that would be a wise shopper type investment.
then get those Neumanns!

I hardly think so, you get a great mic preamp, one of the quietest around, solid rugged unit and it will last you the rest of your life. AND Here's the most important part. If you come to sell it you will get most of your money back, no problem, watch what happens when these things go up on eBay.

BTW: About the mic thing, once you spend more than $500 on a pair of stereo mics, you are in the realms of the last 5% of variability in performance. Today the first 90-95% of greatness happens in the first $500 from my experience.

digifish
« Last Edit: November 21, 2007, 05:24:09 PM by digifish_music »
- What's this knob do?

Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: Preamp for the R-09
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2007, 05:22:23 PM »
i'd rather have 2k mics and a 1k back end than <1k mics and a $2300 back end.

if sound is the key, you can do MUCH better for the price of a 722.
your ears may vary..., I prefer the sound of the ACM671 over the 722.  but thats me.


Like I said, the 722 is nice.  top notch A/D, features and lights.  preamps are good...but not world class good.

 

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