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Author Topic: Returning to Taping: DPA MMA-A > iPhone > Then what?  (Read 25337 times)

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Offline breakonthru

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Re: Returning to Taping: DPA MMA-A > iPhone > Then what?
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2023, 09:03:14 PM »
Although I don't mean to speak for Rocksuitcase, pretty sure he means the ability to use the raw files that were recorded to one phone on another without requiring conversion. The method of transfer between the phones is irrelevant.

as far as a phone, yes. audacity opens .caf fine on any platform it runs on

2. as far as feeding other mics into a d:vice, if its anything that needs a special power supply like schoeps etc its kind of overkill (and expensive), vs a cheaper, smaller, more battery efficient, more reliable A10. the sax obviously has phantom and 5V PIP and thus can power basically anything with the right mic bodies (real phantom). but any of the active boxes like nbox/tinybox etc, d:vice cant do that (elegantly)

That's very much an apples and oranges comparison, and incorrect or irrelevant in a number of ways.

First we should clarify what is meant by "active".  The only boxes that quality as being "active" in the way that term is used by Schoeps and around TS, are those which supply high-voltage to externally polarized microphone capsules, eliminating the microphone amplifier bodies. 

well he said on the last page he owns schoeps and several active boxes, so thats what i was responding to, specifically


MMA-A is not "overkill" for Schoeps mics, it is a "no kill" - it will not work at all because it is unable to power them.

well i meant it is overkill because it can only serve as a line-in (or mic-in with no power). In that role it has no clear advantage to an A10 as i mentioned in that post. whoever is using it with schoeps is using it with an external power supply at minimum. the pre and ADC is probably better than any other handhelds (sax aside at twice the price), so for those who have the setup, it can work, but anybody with an nbox or tinybox or ipa with a decent clean gain stage would do just as well easier and cheaper dumping the line-in into an A10 than using an mma with an iphone which is two pieces with extra cabling and less reliable than an a10... at 1/3 of the price.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2023, 09:12:10 PM by breakonthru »

Offline breakonthru

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Re: Returning to Taping: DPA MMA-A > iPhone > Then what?
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2023, 09:04:02 PM »
I would love an Apple App that records at 24 bit with four channels, so I can record an audience with either an ALD or and IEM and have them synched.  Is that possible?  Bonus for an interface with an Apple Watch to start the recording and change levels.

the go-to metarecorder has an apple watch app. there are several 4(+) channel recording apps for ios but your problem is the interface. nothing small exists. smallest multichannel ios interface i can think of is the teenage engineering unit. the rest are all desktop/halfrack units like the motus. between the phone and the interface you are back to the tascam dr-2d which is compact, reliable, and (nowadays considered)bulky but mostly plastic.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Returning to Taping: DPA MMA-A > iPhone > Then what?
« Reply #32 on: September 21, 2023, 09:29:48 AM »
well i meant it is overkill because it can only serve as a line-in (or mic-in with no power). In that role it has no clear advantage to an A10 as i mentioned in that post. whoever is using it with schoeps is using it with an external power supply at minimum. the pre and ADC is probably better than any other handhelds (sax aside at twice the price), so for those who have the setup, it can work, but anybody with an nbox or tinybox or ipa with a decent clean gain stage would do just as well easier and cheaper dumping the line-in into an A10 than using an mma with an iphone which is two pieces with extra cabling and less reliable than an a10... at 1/3 of the price.

Agreed.  Just to clarify for others reading, use of MMA-A as line-in or mic-in for microphones other than DPA is a hack and doesn't reflect its intended standard usage, so be aware of the implications and potential complications there.  I only aware of one taper using MMA-A in that way, primarily in support of hacked miniature Neumann cardioids (with a quite clever and well implemented solution).  I'm unaware of anyone using it with Schoeps, which as you say.would require a separate power source such as nbox, tinybox, etc. ahead of the MMA-A used as a line-in device.  Such non-standard arrangements can be made to work for folks adept in messing around with this kind of stuff, but its not a plug-n-play solution that works out of the box.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Returning to Taping: DPA MMA-A > iPhone > Then what?
« Reply #33 on: September 21, 2023, 09:41:16 AM »
[snip..] but your problem is the interface. nothing small exists. smallest multichannel ios interface i can think of is the teenage engineering unit. the rest are all desktop/halfrack units like the motus. between the phone and the interface you are back to the tascam dr-2d which is compact, reliable, and (nowadays considered)bulky but mostly plastic.

The world is in need of a small no-frills multichannel USB interface!  It could rather easily be packaged as a small dongle with several inputs. Doesn't need any physical controls on it.  We can handle the mic powering separately.  Essentially what the DR2d offers, which unfortunately remains unique.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline kindms

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Re: Returning to Taping: DPA MMA-A > iPhone > Then what?
« Reply #34 on: September 21, 2023, 09:14:56 PM »

the m2d2 is about the size of a pack of smokes

Well, only if you smoke lead cigarillos.  It's pretty solid, plus you will need a couple of TA3-F to XLR3-F cables for most normal phantom powered mics.  I've worn it to feed an iPhone, but it's pretty massy and only for places with zero security.

my point was guys get much larger rigs in to shows all the time. i dont stealth and have mine in a sled but its still pretty small
AKG c426, AKG414 XLS/ST, AKG ck61, ck22, >nBob colettes >PFA > V3, SD MixPre >  TCM-Mod Tascam HDP2, Sony M10
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Offline grawk

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Re: Returning to Taping: DPA MMA-A > iPhone > Then what?
« Reply #35 on: September 21, 2023, 09:39:38 PM »
small heavy things aren’t particularly hard to get past venue security.
4015gs/4018vlgs/kk14->mma:a d-vice/sonosax minir82/sonosax sx-m2d2/nagra vi/lectrosonics spdr

Offline jmz93

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Re: Returning to Taping: DPA MMA-A > iPhone > Then what?
« Reply #36 on: September 24, 2023, 08:48:47 AM »
Thanks everybody for all the great replies!

Since nothing exists that is quite as low profile as what I have now, I am going to keep my iPhone 8 Plus simply for taping, and invest in another pair of sub-miniatures. psst. Anybody selling Core 4060's or 4061's?
I'll look for a couple replacement cables as well to replace the DPA Lightning-to-USB ccable, again based on your recommendations.

Offline AdamHuston

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Re: Returning to Taping: DPA MMA-A > iPhone > Then what?
« Reply #37 on: September 24, 2023, 09:33:40 AM »
Just had a cable fail 3 songs into show the other night.  The cable that failed was the original that came with the MMA-A.  I will be ordering multiples of the Shure cable recommended. 
Mics: Schoeps MK4's, Telefunken TF11's, Telefunken Tubes, Busman BSC2's, DPA 4061's
Preamps: Audioroot Femto, DPA MMA-A
Recorders: Sound Devices MixPre 6-II, Zoom F3

Offline jmz93

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Re: Returning to Taping: DPA MMA-A > iPhone > Then what?
« Reply #38 on: September 25, 2023, 03:29:09 PM »
I emailed DPA asking about the D:Vice MMA-A and USB_C. Here's what they said.

"If the customer prefers not to change the setup, I would strongly recommend sticking with the current version of iPhone. While we haven't had the opportunity to test the new iPhone 15 yet, we anticipate that with the microUSB-to-USBC cord, the MMA-A will operate as a sound card for the iPhone - just as it does when used with computers and iPads. However, please note that the app for the iPhone may have limited or no functionality.

Please be aware that the MMA-A was discontinued in June 2023. As a result, DPA will not be releasing any further updates for the device or the app."

So does that mean you just won't be able to adjust gain?
I don't remember the DPA app actually doing much.

Then I asked Shure about USB-C cable options for the Motiv accessories, since someone here recommended their cable as a more rugged cable than the one that comes with the MMA-A. They said:
"Thanks for contacting Shure. We offer our AMV-USBC already! It is readily available for purchase here: https://www.shure.com/en-US/products/accessories/amv-usbc15?variant=AMV-USBC15

So, what happens if you use that cable with an iPhone 15 and the MMA-A? Will the DPA app refuse to work with the MMA-A because it doesn't detect a lightning port?

Offline flohma

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Re: Returning to Taping: DPA MMA-A > iPhone > Then what?
« Reply #39 on: October 14, 2023, 03:59:35 AM »
As a new owner of the iPhone 15 with USB-C and longtime owner of an MMA-A, I have the same issue and just tried the Amazon Basics Micro USB to USB-C cable and the dpa 4560 binaural headset. While it gets a signal into Metarecorder, the dpa App for MMA-A is not responsive. I don‘t know whether to put that down to the cable or the app but will experiment further. Has anyone else tried other cables with the above combination?

Offline tapeman

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Re: Returning to Taping: DPA MMA-A > iPhone > Then what?
« Reply #40 on: October 20, 2023, 06:47:33 AM »
The DPA 4063 miniature omni is the interesting one..  It has the same sensitivity and max SPL as 4061, but requires a powering voltage of only 3V (rather than the others needing about 2X that voltage) which enables it to work directly into some recorders providing PIP, without using an external battery battery box or preamp that supplies 6-9V.

I'm very curious about the possibility of using 4063 into the new, very inexpensive SoundProfessionals SP-SAPM-1. which provides PIP powered stereo microphone input to either USB-C or lightning connector.  That's MMA-A like functionaly for only $50.  I don't expect DPA quality from it, but who knows.  It doesn't produce enough PIP voltage to properly power 4060/4061, the miniature DPA directionals, or the premium DPA capsules, but should work with 4063's.

Waiting on more reports about it from TS members. One thing is certain. 4063 > SO-SAPM-1 > phone (USB-C) would be smallest and easiest to stealth external mic rig I've ever come across.

I was thinking about going with something like this and the SO-SAPM-1 is on sale right now, but I don't have the budget for the 4063 at the moment. Do you happen to know of some cheaper alternatives that only require 3V?

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Returning to Taping: DPA MMA-A > iPhone > Then what?
« Reply #41 on: October 23, 2023, 03:08:06 PM »
Not sure. I always use a preamp or PFA with them myself.  Search around TS for mics folks are successfully using direct into handheld digital recorders, as typically the PIP voltage they provide is going to be right around what the SO-SAPM-1 provides.

Sound Professionals has mics that will work, but not sure how they compare in terms of quality.  Maybe check the powering requirements of the miniature Sennheiser omnis (MKE2 and the like) which have good quality and might operate correctly with lower voltage powering.

Generally, if they do work, before the mics stop working at a low enough supply voltage they will loose headroom and distort at lower max SPL . 
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline breakonthru

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Re: Returning to Taping: DPA MMA-A > iPhone > Then what?
« Reply #42 on: November 06, 2023, 07:38:18 AM »
i dont think the 4063 is as much as they claim. its a bit de-rated for the lower voltage (6dB less on max spl vs the same sensitivity 4061 in current CORE version) , not really convinced it works any better with the common 2-2.5V PIP than the 5V versions at a given SPL

Offline aaronji

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Re: Returning to Taping: DPA MMA-A > iPhone > Then what?
« Reply #43 on: November 10, 2023, 10:28:55 AM »
i dont think the 4063 is as much as they claim. its a bit de-rated for the lower voltage (6dB less on max spl vs the same sensitivity 4061 in current CORE version) , not really convinced it works any better with the common 2-2.5V PIP than the 5V versions at a given SPL

Any evidence to support that or just shooting from the hip?

Offline breakonthru

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Re: Returning to Taping: DPA MMA-A > iPhone > Then what?
« Reply #44 on: December 11, 2023, 12:44:04 PM »
i dont think the 4063 is as much as they claim. its a bit de-rated for the lower voltage (6dB less on max spl vs the same sensitivity 4061 in current CORE version) , not really convinced it works any better with the common 2-2.5V PIP than the 5V versions at a given SPL

Any evidence to support that or just shooting from the hip?
how would you propose testing this? i have 4060,4061, and 4063 and a handful of the 2-2.5V PIP recorders, but no calibrated loud sound source

 

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