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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: phr on October 12, 2005, 07:13:43 AM
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I'm surprised there hasn't been more discussion of this machine. Does everyone hate it? I'm not entirely delighted with mine, but it has its good points and I figured I'd use it until there's an affordable 24 bit hard disk recorder that's easy on batteries (or flash gets a heck of a lot cheaper). Lately though I'm seeing lots of posts about the Microtrack being under $300 at Guitar Center so I'm wondering if I should sell my 660 and buy an MT. One important thing to me LONG recording time (30 hours=a weekend event) with no AC power. With the 660 that's just a matter of bringing a few spare sets of AA cells but with the MT, I'd have to use an external battery pack, which is a bit clumsier. Generally I hate anything with a non-removable Ipod-style pack, so I've been anti-MT. But I begin to think it has much better audio than the 660, giving me a bit of a dilemma. Thoughts are appreciated.
Edit: I should add, I'm specifically asking about the stock PMD660. I can't get an Oade mod without buying a whole new unit and I'm not enamored enough of the 660 to want to do that.
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i think the 660 would be getting more attention if it was 24bit. that seems to be what people are looking for now, many of us already have 16bit recorders that suit our purposes...so the 660 really wouldn't be a neccessary upgrade.
as for the mt and external battery packs, i guess it depends what environment you tape in. i already have an external battery pack for my v3...and when i finally get around to getting an mt, i'll probably run that off of the same kind of pack i have for my v3. the walmart batteries really aren't that cumbersome or heavy, and they fit nice and easy into my pack. and i could probably get 30 hours of recording off of two of them - or at least pretty close.
if i was stealthing i'd just get some of those small usb packs that AA's, doesn't seem like that'd be any different than swapping out batteries all the time. whats the difference if you're carrying a pocket full of batteries or a couple of battery packs. all the same to me.
just my $.02
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well said, Ed. 24-bit recording aside, I do see an Oade mod pmd660 (especially the ACM mod) as being a nice sounding, compact, all-in-one solution for those who want a low-profile rig with minimal fuss. Nick's Ratdog and Hornsby tapes made me a believer of the sound this thing can produce.
edit: d5 has also made some nice tapes with this box and his mod 460's
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heck yeah, that acm 660 sounds sweet. i'd totally run one if thats what i was looking for.
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The thing with 24 bit is 24/48 wav needs about 1gb/hour and 24/96 needs double that (I don't know of any of these machines supporting FLAC). So 30 hours at 24/48 needs 30gb of media which with CF flash cards is around $1500. It's a lot less with microdrives but it's still a bundle. I guess you could carry some kind of upload gizmo (hard drive media player with cf slot) but that's more junk to carry around and you still need at least two cf cards (so you can upload one while using the other). And external batteries while tolerable are still a nuisance. Finally the MT's mic preamps are supposedly not all that great by 24 bit standards, so you don't really have all-in-one if you're taking 24 bits seriously. I'm not trying to stealth but would rather keep the complexity of this stuff low if I can. With 16 bits I'm recording in 128 kbit mp3 (I know, I know) on the 660 so 30 hours fits in under 2gb. Although I'd sure rather use 192kbit if the stupid thing supported that.
What were people using for 16 bits before the 660 came along? Mostly DAT? How would you say the stock 660 compares sonically to something like a PCM-M1?
Thanks.
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The thing with 24 bit is 24/48 wav needs about 1gb/hour and 24/96 needs double that (I don't know of any of these machines supporting FLAC). So 30 hours at 24/48 needs 30gb of media which with CF flash cards is around $1500. It's a lot less with microdrives but it's still a bundle.
most people don't record for 30 hours on a night out taping. I'd say probably 3-4 hours max for most, maybe 5-6 if you've got an all nighter.
I guess you could carry some kind of upload gizmo (hard drive media player with cf slot) but that's more junk to carry around and you still need at least two cf cards (so you can upload one while using the other).
if i'm taping for 30 hours or a whole festival, i'd probably bring more than just my normal setup, gotta be prepared for anything afterall. it wouldn't be that big of a deal to have a laptop or a hdd on hand to dump the files to...making the expense of flash cards much less.
And external batteries while tolerable are still a nuisance.
personally, i'd think 5 walmart batteries would be less of nuisance than 20-30+ AA batteries, but thats just me.
Finally the MT's mic preamps are supposedly not all that great by 24 bit standards, so you don't really have all-in-one if you're taking 24 bits seriously.
thats a fair argument, but i already have a v3, so i only need a 24bit recorder, i could care less about the preamps or the adc stage. and there are other options to 24bit...there's the pmd671, the new tascam recorder, and then the 722. quite frankly, if i wanted a 24bit all in one, i'd get a 722 and be done with it. plus, i wouldn't even have to buy flash media, i could just record to the hard drive.
With 16 bits I'm recording in 128 kbit mp3 (I know, I know) on the 660 so 30 hours fits in under 2gb. Although I'd sure rather use 192kbit if the stupid thing supported that.
you can record 16 bit and mp3s on the mt, and some of the other 24bit recorders and get 30 hours under 2gb as well. however, if i'm buying a 24bit recorder, i'm going to record in 24bits, not mp3s. same with a 16bit recorder, recording to mp3 doesn't really interest me.
What were people using for 16 bits before the 660 came along? Mostly DAT? How would you say the stock 660 compares sonically to something like a PCM-M1?
if not dat's then jb3's, and i wouldn't trade my jb3 for a 660. i run optical into it, and it just records a wav file, no need for the internal preamps or a/d stage. if i didn't have a preamp/adc, then i'd look into an acm 660 if i wanted to record in only 16bits.
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I'd rather have 16 great bits than 24 mediocre ones, especially given file size considerations.
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if i go:
km140 > v3 > pmd660
or
km140> v3 > microtrack
why would the microtrack 24bits be mediocre?
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I might pick up an Oade 660. 16 bit recordings are fine with me. I don't have a high-end playback system anyway. But, I probably won't do it until after the holidays. By then, it will be interesting to see if the MT has worked its kinks out.
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if i go:
km140 > v3 > pmd660
or
km140> v3 > microtrack
why would the microtrack 24bits be mediocre?
phr didn't indicate he had a outboard front end
And it's a general comment, that particularly applies to cheap 24 bit soundcards.
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Edit: I should add, I'm specifically asking about the stock PMD660. I can't get an Oade mod without buying a whole new unit and I'm not enamored enough of the 660 to want to do that.
The stock 660 really doesn't provide alot of options for our hobby; there's no digital input, so running a good pre/adc in front of it's much of an option and the stock pre overloads easily with concert sound levels. I think the Oade mod makes all the differance and even then it'll only suit certain tastes ...simplicity or stealthing as mentioned earlier.
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I saw on the oade.com board that Doug is entertaining the notion of doing a "24 bit" upgrade for the 660... It would involve changing out the ADC, so it really would be a true 24 bit machine, not just a great sounding one... I believe all the other ACM changes would still be in effect...
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Does the stock 660 have noise problems on the line input too or just the mic input?
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I saw on the oade.com board that Doug is entertaining the notion of doing a "24 bit" upgrade for the 660... It would involve changing out the ADC, so it really would be a true 24 bit machine, not just a great sounding one... I believe all the other ACM changes would still be in effect...
I read where he said that would be a year away. It all depends on the success of the Microtracker.
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I might pick up an Oade 660. 16 bit recordings are fine with me. I don't have a high-end playback system anyway. But, I probably won't do it until after the holidays. By then, it will be interesting to see if the MT has worked its kinks out.
I am giving serious consideration to this machine
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I'm pretty much sold on this machine with the acm oade mod.
It's within my budget for the most part and sure as hell simplifies my rig .. oh yeah!
to think how quickly and easily you could set up with this rig.