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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: atxwolfattack on June 28, 2007, 01:03:28 AM
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Hey guys,
first off, i want to say that i am not trying to say anything bad about other microphones, or anyone else's gear, i just thought this observation was pretty interesting.
So a couple weeks ago, i went to record Dinosaur Jr is San Antonio Texas. First off, i know for a fact that they are very taper friendly, and ended up spending an hour before the show trying to convince the 100's of staff members at the venue that they are fine with taping. Luckily i ran into the road manager and he helped me get my gear in.
So i get a call from another Texas taper and told him he was gonna have a hard time getting his gear in. So since the road manager gave me a "audio press pass" i decided to go outside, and grab his gear, bring it in and let him clamp to my stand.
So here are the 2 setups...
jcrab66's - Schoeps MK4's > Nbox > Tascam HDP2
Mine - Church Audio Cardiod mics > Church Audio STC-9000 > iRiver ihp-120
I thought it would be kind of cool to compare the two recordings.
NOTE: Jcrab66's recording was originally 24bit, but was dithered to 16, so his original could potentially sound even better at 24bit. Also, these are mp3s, so they are compressed, but they are both compressed exactly the same way.
Here is Jcrabb66's recording with the Schoeps MK4's...
A.mp3 (http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/files/99694_1nrlq/A.mp3)
And my recording with the Church Audio Cards...
B.mp3 (http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/files/99695_4hyqj/B.mp3)
What do ya think?
The Schoeps MK4's sound better to me, but you gotta admit, those Church Audio mics sound pretty dang close for the price difference.
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Great job! T+
No doubt about it. Church audio bang for the buck factor is huge. Looking forward to trying my church omni caps out.
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Would it be possible to get the raw files - 24-bit MK4s and 16-bit CA? Or even 16-bit for both?
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yeah, i can post the 16 bit versions of both, i just need to upload them, i think the flac files both in 16bit are like 18mb each or so? I will post them in a little bit.
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Here is the 16-bit flac file from Jcrabb66's Schoeps MK4's
http://www.wikiupload.com/download_page.php?id=168069
Here is my 16-bit flac file for the Church Audio cardiod mics
http://www.wikiupload.com/download_page.php?id=168076
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I just listened to both samples at work on the cheap computer speakers and I couldvarely hear a difference between the two. The "DinosaurJr t02.flac" file I thought had a little more bass in it but that's the only difference I heard. This is great news for me because I bought a CA-9000 mic/preAmp from Chris and have been streming to use them for a while now. I'll get to use mine in a week or so. I can't wait!!
Mako
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Nice test. Thanks for sharing your results. :)
They sound great. I have some Church Audio coming soon. ;D
This helps justify my opinion to myself, which is similiar to yours.
I used to really like that song too. I still do I guess, it's just been a long time since I have listened to it.
The band actually sounds better to me than the times I saw them 15-20 years ago.
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Nice comparison!
+T.
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This is really interesting.
I actually preferred the CA recording, the vocal seemed a little clearer to my ears. (only listened to the Mp3 versions).
That being said, I would have liked to have seen this as a blind test and I am not a fan of the band, so my thoughts that the schoeps being slightly bass heavy, could simply reflect the fact that this is the band's "sound".
I have d/l'ed some great schoeps taped shows and some great CA shows. I guess given my budget, I am very happy with Chris' product.
+T (My First) now I can finally give them, for pulling constantly good sounds. You are doing way better than me :-[
Dave.
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Wow. a cursory listen to the .mp3 files reveals striking similarity.
I'm going to grab the .flac files tonight and put a little more into this. +t
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Great. Now chris's caps are going to run abou 1100 a peice.
Just when I was looking forward to the omnis.... ::)
+T's to samples and to the mic maker
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yeah, Chris really does make such fabulous audio equipment. His mics and preamps are top notch, and for the price, you are gonna have a hard time finding something better. My rig consisting of the Church Audio mics and preamp, and an iriver-ihp120 cost me somewhere between 300-350 bucks, and i am very pleased with the results i get with the setup.
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Hey guys Church Audio cards are now on sale $1199.99 a pair ;)
Chris
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Hey guys Church Audio cards are now on sale $1199.99 a pair ;)
Chris
oh, cool price chris...1200$ HAHA! ;)
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Hey guys Church Audio cards are now on sale $1199.99 a pair ;)
Chris
oh, cool price chris...1200$ HAHA! ;)
Some people are still selling them cheaper on eBay.
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24 Bit MK4 Sample (http://www.yousendit.com/download/bWJvN3RVdkdUWUEwTVE9PQ)
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24 Bit MK4 Sample (http://www.yousendit.com/download/bWJvN3RVdkdUWUEwTVE9PQ)
I think its kinda hard to compare 24 bit to 16 never mind my mics to Schoeps but the differences were not as great as one would expect. I guess it goes to show you that any good mic placed properly will sound good. I think my self the Schoeps sound a little better.. :) But for the price difference they better! :)
Chris
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^^^modesty is a great personality trait!^^^
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I guess it goes to show you that any good mic placed properly will sound good.
I offered this comp on another board as a discussion of "high-end mics" and "what rig is best" was starting and I wanted to nip it in the bud. My contention was pretty much what Chris wrote and, the board's split decision on which source was 'better' demonstrated.
+T to atx for the comp (again) and to you, Chris. I'm thinkig about a low-pro rig and you'll be my first stop.
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its always interesting comparing mics with that big a price difference
as a buddy of mine always points out...
if a pair of mics (A) are 200
and
if a pair of mics (B) are 2000
is (B) going to sound 10 times better than (A) if they are in the same spot etc etc
just about never in my opinion.. sometimes 1-2 times as much and sometimes 3-4 times but thats about it
of course this is just an example and i am not picking on anyone who owns nicer mics..
i myself own nicer mics and less expensive mics .. so i appreciate what each can do and has to offer
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its always interesting comparing mics with that big a price difference
as a buddy of mine always points out...
if a pair of mics (A) are 200
and
if a pair of mics (B) are 2000
is (B) going to sound 10 times better than (A) if they are in the same spot etc etc
just about never in my opinion.. sometimes 1-2 times as much and sometimes 3-4 times but thats about it
of course this is just an example and i am not picking on anyone who owns nicer mics..
i myself own nicer mics and less expensive mics .. so i appreciate what each can do and has to offer
The one thing I have learned and maybe this is why a lot of people like my mics.. Its pretty simple to make a good mic once.. Its another thing to make a good mic again and again.. I have found a way to test my mics and make sure they fall in line with the last pair I made. So when someone buys my mics they are always going to produce the same sound quality pair after pair..
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That brings up Mike's Corrollary:
... 15 feet of better mic position is worth $2,000 in gear....
;D
Mike
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lots of mics sound good BUT have a different colouration of sound.
this colouration is another subjective taste.
some like more bass, some less, some detailed high frequencies etc.
personally I prefer the Audio Technica sound over the church cards sound. I just like the colouration of the AT´s more. more detailed in my subjective opinion.
the HLSC MKE40´s sound completely different compared to the AT´s or church cards.
less bass and a very specific sound.
I am sure each of these 3 mics are a good investigation ;).
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lots of mics sound good BUT have a different colouration of sound.
this colouration is another subjective taste.
some like more bass, some less, some detailed high frequencies etc.
personally I prefer the Audio Technica sound over the church cards sound. I just like the colouration of the AT´s more. more detailed in my subjective opinion.
the HLSC MKE40´s sound completely different compared to the AT´s or church cards.
less bass and a very specific sound.
I am sure each of these 3 mics are a good investigation ;).
I have always looked at microphones as paint brushes.. Some paint a wide line some a thin line. They are tools, when you use them properly you end up with the sound you want. I agree its very subjective.. I like AT mics too I think they sound great.. There are things I dont like about them, Just like there are things I dont like about my own mics... In the end both will do a good job of capturing audio. Its just a matter of personal taste if the person listing to it likes the end result.
Chris
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24 Bit MK4 Sample (http://www.yousendit.com/download/bWJvN3RVdkdUWUEwTVE9PQ)
I think its kinda hard to compare 24 bit to 16 never mind my mics to Schoeps but the differences were not as great as one would expect. I guess it goes to show you that any good mic placed properly will sound good. I think my self the Schoeps sound a little better.. :) But for the price difference they better! :)
Chris
the 24bit was posted because someone asked about it. As for the sound, listening via my cheap little cambridge amp and alesis monitors i can tell enough of a difference to know which one i like better regardless of the source. IMO the CA source sounds too thin but then thats just my listening preference. I have a feeling that if it were a blind comp there may have been some different results...
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24 Bit MK4 Sample (http://www.yousendit.com/download/bWJvN3RVdkdUWUEwTVE9PQ)
I think its kinda hard to compare 24 bit to 16 never mind my mics to Schoeps but the differences were not as great as one would expect. I guess it goes to show you that any good mic placed properly will sound good. I think my self the Schoeps sound a little better.. :) But for the price difference they better! :)
Chris
the 24bit was posted because someone asked about it. As for the sound, listening via my cheap little cambridge amp and alesis monitors i can tell enough of a difference to know which one i like better regardless of the source. IMO the CA source sounds too thin but then thats just my listening preference. I have a feeling that if it were a blind comp there may have been some different results...
What I should really do one of these days is make a phantom powered version of my mics. So you guys can use the same signal chain.. Its not really a fair comparison but still the results were interesting. I think that if the mics were placed in the "exact" same position with the same preamp I am sure the Schoeps would have come out much more on top then they did. I just want to be truthful in saying there is no way one can compair the two.. :) But I guess if this comp shows anything it shows what I have said before mics placed well will sound good..
Chris
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24 Bit MK4 Sample (http://www.yousendit.com/download/bWJvN3RVdkdUWUEwTVE9PQ)
I think its kinda hard to compare 24 bit to 16 never mind my mics to Schoeps but the differences were not as great as one would expect. I guess it goes to show you that any good mic placed properly will sound good. I think my self the Schoeps sound a little better.. :) But for the price difference they better! :)
Chris
the 24bit was posted because someone asked about it. As for the sound, listening via my cheap little cambridge amp and alesis monitors i can tell enough of a difference to know which one i like better regardless of the source. IMO the CA source sounds too thin but then thats just my listening preference. I have a feeling that if it were a blind comp there may have been some different results...
What I should really do one of these days is make a phantom powered version of my mics. So you guys can use the same signal chain.. Its not really a fair comparison but still the results were interesting. I think that if the mics were placed in the "exact" same position with the same preamp I am sure the Schoeps would have come out much more on top then they did. I just want to be truthful in saying there is no way one can compair the two.. :) But I guess if this comp shows anything it shows what I have said before mics placed well will sound good..
Chris
Chris, the way I read it, both sets of mics were on the same stand, nearly co-located. So the differences are not as much mic placement as they are actually representative of the signal chains that were used.
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The MKE40 has something that Church and AT don't have:
SILK
The AT's and Church's sound damn similar. The AT's are slightly more detailed, but churches mics remind me of analog warmth...
Both great products. AT's had a leg up with the modular capsule system, but it seems Chucrch is all over that. Now he just needs a Sub-Card cap, a mini-shotgun and a figure 8! Woot!
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lots of mics sound good BUT have a different colouration of sound.
this colouration is another subjective taste.
some like more bass, some less, some detailed high frequencies etc.
personally I prefer the Audio Technica sound over the church cards sound. I just like the colouration of the AT´s more. more detailed in my subjective opinion.
the HLSC MKE40´s sound completely different compared to the AT´s or church cards.
less bass and a very specific sound.
I am sure each of these 3 mics are a good investigation ;).
I've tried the same mics... and more.
As I said in an earlier thread, there are several things that mics can do: color the sound (ie., different frequency response), lack detail (sounds washed out), add distortion (eg., extra simbalance that was not there in original show). There are probably other things too, like coloration of soundfield coming from different incidence angles, etc. My (informal) observation is that detail is ranked as follows: MKE40>AT853>Church, but coloration ranks Church>AT853>MKE40. Distortion probably ranks MKE40> (Church ~= AT853). So it is a toss up. But, for the money (!!!) and reliability (no distortion), and simplicity (standard, 2wire battery box), Church's mics are excellent. I was skeptical at first (used to love AT853), but now I pick Church's mics if I want a miniature directional mic.
Personally, I'm beginning to prefer omni recordings, usually from up front to get a good soundstage. But sometimes I run cards, esp. if the room is noisy (like a stage at one end and a *loud* bar at the other...
It is very informative to run a set of accurate omnidirectional mics beside your "go to" rig. Even a pair of Panasonic WM6x will work well. Take them home and compare the recordings. You'll hear more "room sound" in the omnis, but it will probably sound clearer and less distored too.
Richard
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Richard, if you run baffled omnis (J-disk or similar), you're going to like the omnis even better. Beyond the accurate, flat frequency response you get from omnis, when you run them in a properly baffled configuration, the acoustic delay between the mics will be similar to the delay you get between your own ears. The result is a recording that sounds good over speakers or over headphones. ORTF or DIN-A cardioids will do that too, but you get more coloration with the directional mics than you do with baffled omnis. Moke has some good examples if you search for "baffled omnis".
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Richard, if you run baffled omnis (J-disk or similar), you're going to like the omnis even better. Beyond the accurate, flat frequency response you get from omnis, when you run them in a properly baffled configuration, the acoustic delay between the mics will be similar to the delay you get between your own ears. The result is a recording that sounds good over speakers or over headphones. ORTF or DIN-A cardioids will do that too, but you get more coloration with the directional mics than you do with baffled omnis. Moke has some good examples if you search for "baffled omnis".
I usually run them with my head as a baffle :). I've been running Sennhesier MKE2 (omni) a lot in this configuation and like it a lot.
Richard
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The MKE40 has something that Church and AT don't have:
SILK
The AT's and Church's sound damn similar. The AT's are slightly more detailed, but churches mics remind me of analog warmth...
Both great products. AT's had a leg up with the modular capsule system, but it seems Chucrch is all over that. Now he just needs a Sub-Card cap, a mini-shotgun and a figure 8! Woot!
Pretty sure the ca mics have modular caps. Chris just released his omni...
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Richard, if you run baffled omnis (J-disk or similar), you're going to like the omnis even better. Beyond the accurate, flat frequency response you get from omnis, when you run them in a properly baffled configuration, the acoustic delay between the mics will be similar to the delay you get between your own ears. The result is a recording that sounds good over speakers or over headphones. ORTF or DIN-A cardioids will do that too, but you get more coloration with the directional mics than you do with baffled omnis. Moke has some good examples if you search for "baffled omnis".
I usually run them with my head as a baffle :). I've been running Sennhesier MKE2 (omni) a lot in this configuation and like it a lot.
Richard
Oh heck yes. When you use your head as a baffle, mounting the omnis near your ears, the resulting recording will put you "right there" again when you listen to it on headphones. The spacial realism will be absolutely stunning. I've run quite a few recordings like that and I'll hear my wife's voice at times on the recording. It never fails to trick me into thinking she's there. I often end up pulling my headphones off and make sure that she's not actually there. She gets irritated with me when she's trying to talk to me and I'm not hearing her because I'm listening to a show recording on my headphones. ;)
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Richard, if you run baffled omnis (J-disk or similar), you're going to like the omnis even better. Beyond the accurate, flat frequency response you get from omnis, when you run them in a properly baffled configuration, the acoustic delay between the mics will be similar to the delay you get between your own ears. The result is a recording that sounds good over speakers or over headphones. ORTF or DIN-A cardioids will do that too, but you get more coloration with the directional mics than you do with baffled omnis. Moke has some good examples if you search for "baffled omnis".
I usually run them with my head as a baffle :). I've been running Sennhesier MKE2 (omni) a lot in this configuation and like it a lot.
Richard
Oh heck yes. When you use your head as a baffle, mounting the omnis near your ears, the resulting recording will put you "right there" again when you listen to it on headphones. The spacial realism will be absolutely stunning. I've run quite a few recordings like that and I'll hear my wife's voice at times on the recording. It never fails to trick me into thinking she's there. I often end up pulling my headphones off and make sure that she's not actually there. She gets irritated with me when she's trying to talk to me and I'm not hearing her because I'm listening to a show recording on my headphones. ;)
So true! So does mine. T+
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My wife gets irritated with me for breathing. ;D
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My wife, bless her to pieces, always goes and buys beers for me when I have to stay glued to my mic stand. :D
Back on topic, though: I recently recorded a festival show with a mini-disc and a pair of Church Audio pro-binaural mics, and the fellow sitting right next to me was recording with Peluso CEMC-6 CK21 > Hydra Silvers. Later, when comparing his recording to mine, they were nearly identical, except I swear mine has more clarity in the mids. I've actually compared a lot of my recording with the binaurals to other people's recordings of the same shows, and despite some of the amazing (and expensive) gear they might have used, I haven't heard any mics I like better than these. Funny thing is, I had been researching a lot of mics before I bought these, and prior to discovering them, I was all set to drop several hundred dollars on more well-known mics. In the past few years, I've been giving a lot of tapers the online links to Church Audio mics, and many of these folks have actually bought them, and they tell me they absolutely love 'em.
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I love my AT853 and all of the MANY other electret mics I have owned, but there is significant improvment when moving to a true condensor IMO. This is esspecially true when not located in the perfect location. A true condensor is more forgiving.
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Even further proof:
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=508303
This is one hell of a recording. Sounds like the wind was a little heavy, but the mics really shine on this occasion.
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WOW! This IS a Helluva recording, Stan! I'm very impressed, whoever the tape is! I only hope I can make my rig work this good since I'll have the same set-up as far as mics>pre>recorder goes. Always wanted to hear Los Lonely Boys anyway. They rock! rWc3523
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The big difference you will notice will be listening to them on headphones. The schoeps or my favorite DPA tend to really show there difference through headphones, a much brighter richer sound
an auditory equivalent to a primary color
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You're probably right, but not everybody can afford those mics! I certainly can't, or at least, can't justify the expense! I'll settle for the CA cards for the time being! rWc3523
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Even further proof:
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=508303
This is one hell of a recording. Sounds like the was was a little heavy, but the mics really shine on this occasion.
Now that's a nice one, just finished listening to it. Makes me even more anxious in getting the package from Chris and testing these out myself :)
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Interesting to note those were spaced 3' apart @ 80' back. Kind of reiterates the "sweet spot" thing. Under the right conditions any decent rig can shine. Under the wrong conditions any rig can suck.
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Just had a listen - to my critical ear, the Schoeps have a lot more detail in the mid-highs, around 3kHz up to 8kHz. Both recordings have too much bass - levels are better on the Church, but while "true" bass is clear, top bass (around 250-300 Hz) seems a little muddy. Overall, the Churches are coloured far warmer.
Basically, to me, they sound completely different. But I'm a sound tech, it's my job to listen for these things. On the whole, the Church mics still sound 90% as good, which is a hell of a good job for the price! They just don't sound all that similar to me.
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enjoyed reading this thread!!! that Los Lonely Boys sounds incredible, I love it.
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How about another testament to team church. This was my 3rd recording with the rig i bought from him, and my 5th attempt overall. Sorry the sample is so short, it is all that is allowed. there are a few on the dime page though.
http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-nfo.php?id=153181
The Police
2007-07-02
Scottrade Center
St. Louis, Mo
FOB Section C Row 8
Church Audio Cardoids/Edirol R-09@ 24bit/44.1khz
Tracked in Goldwave>Dither to 16bit/44.1khz/FLAC/You
Taped/Transferred By: RandalP
Setlist:
01-"Message in a Bottle"
02-"Synchronicity II"
03-"Walking on the Moon"
04-"Voices Inside My Head/When the World is Running Down, You Make the Best of What's Still Around"
05-"Don't Stand So Close to Me"
06-"Driven To Tears"
07-"The Bed's Too Big Without You"
08-"Truth Hits Everybody"
09-"Every Little Thing She Does is Magic"
10-"Wrapped Around Your Finger"
11-"De Do Do Do, De Da Da Da"
12-"Invisible Sun"
13-"Walking In Your Footsteps"
14-"Can't Stand Losing You"
15-Encore one:"Roxanne"
16-Encore two:"King of Pain"
17-"So Lonely"
18-"Every Breath You Take"
19-Next to You
***PLEASE DO NOT ENCODE THIS TO MP3 OR ANY OTHER LOW QUALITY FILE TYPE AND SPREAD***
***TRADE AS HIGH QUALITY FLAC OR WAV FILES INSTEAD***
***PLEASE DO NOT BUY OR SELL THIS RECORDING***
THIS IS MY 5TH ATTEMPT AT TAPING AND I THINK I FINALLY GOT IT DIALED IN. THIS IS MY FIRST UPLOAD
AND THE FIRST RECORDING I FEEL CONFIDENT ENOUGH TO PUT OUT THERE FOR EVERYONE.
IF YOU HAVE NEGATIVE FEEDBACK KEEP IT TO YOURSELF, I SNEAK MY GEAR IN AND CHANCE IT, NOT YOU.
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Looks like you did good, man - over 1000 downloads and counting! +T
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How about another testament to team church. This was my 3rd recording with the rig i bought from him, and my 5th attempt overall. Sorry the sample is so short, it is all that is allowed. there are a few on the dime page though.
http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-nfo.php?id=153181
The Police
2007-07-02
Scottrade Center
St. Louis, Mo
FOB Section C Row 8
Church Audio Cardoids/Edirol R-09@ 24bit/44.1khz
Tracked in Goldwave>Dither to 16bit/44.1khz/FLAC/You
Taped/Transferred By: RandalP
Setlist:
01-"Message in a Bottle"
02-"Synchronicity II"
03-"Walking on the Moon"
04-"Voices Inside My Head/When the World is Running Down, You Make the Best of What's Still Around"
05-"Don't Stand So Close to Me"
06-"Driven To Tears"
07-"The Bed's Too Big Without You"
08-"Truth Hits Everybody"
09-"Every Little Thing She Does is Magic"
10-"Wrapped Around Your Finger"
11-"De Do Do Do, De Da Da Da"
12-"Invisible Sun"
13-"Walking In Your Footsteps"
14-"Can't Stand Losing You"
15-Encore one:"Roxanne"
16-Encore two:"King of Pain"
17-"So Lonely"
18-"Every Breath You Take"
19-Next to You
***PLEASE DO NOT ENCODE THIS TO MP3 OR ANY OTHER LOW QUALITY FILE TYPE AND SPREAD***
***TRADE AS HIGH QUALITY FLAC OR WAV FILES INSTEAD***
***PLEASE DO NOT BUY OR SELL THIS RECORDING***
THIS IS MY 5TH ATTEMPT AT TAPING AND I THINK I FINALLY GOT IT DIALED IN. THIS IS MY FIRST UPLOAD
AND THE FIRST RECORDING I FEEL CONFIDENT ENOUGH TO PUT OUT THERE FOR EVERYONE.
IF YOU HAVE NEGATIVE FEEDBACK KEEP IT TO YOURSELF, I SNEAK MY GEAR IN AND CHANCE IT, NOT YOU.
Hook me up with a copy :)
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LOL...
here's a question..
and please, be objective as possible.
do you find the church cards better than the 4.7k MOD 853s ?
are they smaller?
I needs to see a picture of these suckers. I'll check ebay.
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LOL...
here's a question..
and please, be objective as possible.
do you find the church cards better than the 4.7k MOD 853s ?
are they smaller?
I needs to see a picture of these suckers. I'll check ebay.
is anyone able to answer this by chance? Im also curious.
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LOL...
here's a question..
and please, be objective as possible.
do you find the church cards better than the 4.7k MOD 853s ?
are they smaller?
I needs to see a picture of these suckers. I'll check ebay.
is anyone able to answer this by chance? Im also curious.
Better is a matter of opinion. Personally *I* like them a bit better. What I found is they sound a bit more natural, less "colored" (frequencies balanced), and a bit more "forgiving" in general than AT853, but they have *a bit* less "detail". They are certainly the mic I would reach for first, if I wanted a mini cardioid. Although now I'm focussing more on omnis, or better cardioids, like Beyerdynamic, etc.
So, I think given the price I would start with Church's mics. You will probably end up keeping them as a backup/loaner pair even if you move on to something else.
Now I have: AT853 (lots of them, various caps, etc), Church's cards, Senn MKE40, Shure MX183/185. All have benefits/tradeoffs... that's why I keep them all, lol.
Richard
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yeah, I have the sens and the ATs but listening to this Black Crowes recording Im very tempted to get a CA rig. Not sure if my ATs could pull a tape like that.
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=508817
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yeah, I have the sens and the ATs but listening to this Black Crowes recording Im very tempted to get a CA rig. Not sure if my ATs could pull a tape like that.
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=508817
Oh yeah, the Senns are really good as far as detail goes, but very lacking in bass.
Remember also that so much is luck/placement of the mics. I've got some just killer AT853 recordings as well. The only way to know for sure is to run them side by side, or at least run them in venues/situations you know very well.
Richard
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Here is a sample with the CA cards and the 9100 from a recent show http://www.dimeadozen.org/attachments/165785/2075655/come%20together%20sample.mp3
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ca cards and 9100 sample
http://www.sendspace.com/file/jjo4nf
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I had them all: church cards, HLSC-1, at853U, at943.
The absolutely best recording I ever taped was with neither of the above mics BUT with my dpa4061s at an open air show in Austria.
Also in boomy halls or small clubs I like the dpa4061 result more than any of the above cardioid recordings I did at the same venues.
Sure a highpassfilter is needed sometimes for reducing little boomyness from the omnis, but the result still is more listenable for ME than any cardioid recording.
I simply think, dpa4061 omnis sound more natural(especially in low frequencies with fat bass).
Others might have a different taste of course ;).
For me cardioids simply sound to thin and "filtered".
It´s all about finding the sweet spot and mounting your mics properly and NOT MOVING yourself for 2 hours ;).
The church mics are hard to beat for their price.
Yes they are about half size of the at853ies and have the best low-frequency response of the above mentioned cardioids.
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This might help:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/rmh61i
CA cards > H320 (no bbox/preamp used)
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just checked out the mp3 samples (on the first page of thread) and do have to say am a bit impressed by the comparisons of these mics!
Now, being an owner of Core Sound Cards myself, I do hear a "sound" (that I have grown accustomed to in my own recordings) on the CA example (small mics trying to to do the best they can), however I would have to lean towards the Schoeps myself as to which I personally prefer. I like the extra detail those give.
From a cost standpoint (which is very real for me - "what's the best I can do for less"?), big kudo's for the CA mics !!
I agree, that both examples are a bit bassy, but then Dino Jr doesn't exactly put on a quiet show either.
+t!
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Okay, for any of you on DIME, here's a show I recently recorded in stealth mode, with the Church-Audio ST-11 cardiod mics > Church-Audio ST-20 pre-amp (-20dB/8kHz roll-off) > M-Audio 24/69 Microtrack (44.1kHz .wav), and the mics were clipped to my glasses, right in front of my my ears.
It's a Robyn Hitchcock acoustic set, by the way:
http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=172444
The opening set, by Sean Nelson, is here:
http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=172484
I made one change between the sets (switching the pre-amp from +20dB to -20dB), otherwise, recorded exactly the same. There are 128kbps .mp3 samples for each set, in case anyone wants to just give a quick listen.
I'm loving the new mics, I'd be interested in hearing other people's thoughts on the way they sound.
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just ordered a 9100 preamp and the CA cards... super keen... ;D this thread makes me even more excited... thanks for the all the posts...
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I've got a clip on soundmann.com now. Duane Rutter, at a regular venue for me, so you can compare the sound of these and other setups...
Richard
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Here's some samples of a Mayer show my son taped. His first time taping so I wouldn't let him out of the house with my MT or h120.
CA cards-->SP battery box-->Sharp DR7 MD
http://tinyurl.com/2evy76
http://tinyurl.com/26ye7v
...and a Police show I did from the far end of the arena
CA cards-->CA 9000 pre-->h120
http://tinyurl.com/22r6ow
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Here are some video clips from a show I recorded at Holocene in Portland, Oregon, on June 29, 2008:
http://www.vimeo.com/1603674
The video guys and I were recording independently of each other, after I made a few adjustments to the audio, they synched it to the video for the clips they posted.
I was running four Church Audio mics, through a custom 4-channel pre-amp made by Chris. The room was pretty quiet, and I was back at the soundboard, so I took a chance and bumped the high pass filter up to +30dB. Straight to M-Audio Microtrack (internal vol. boost off; 16-bit). Two cards, for direct stage acoustics, and two omnis, for room sound; mixed on the fly per song, through a Sony MDR-V6 headset.
In retrospect, I probably could have switched to 24-bit for this, but maybe next time!
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That mk4>nbox sample sounds thin and harsh as hell! I hope they don't all sound like this. The Church setup has better detail and smoothness all the way around in these samlpes. The midrange is more pronounced and clear, the wah guiatar part that opens the tune sounds harsh and growly on the mk4 setup, but much more smooth and pleasant on the church rig.
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j, free ?!?
heya heya, fancy seeing you here! Haven't seen you since that M'Pups show we taped last Fall at the Varsity!
Nice samples indeed, thanks for posting!
Here are some video clips from a show I recorded at Holocene in Portland, Oregon, on June 29, 2008:
http://www.vimeo.com/1603674
The video guys and I were recording independently of each other, after I made a few adjustments to the audio, they synched it to the video for the clips they posted.
I was running four Church Audio mics, through a custom 4-channel pre-amp made by Chris. The room was pretty quiet, and I was back at the soundboard, so I took a chance and bumped the high pass filter up to +30dB. Straight to M-Audio Microtrack (internal vol. boost off; 16-bit). Two cards, for direct stage acoustics, and two omnis, for room sound; mixed on the fly per song, through a Sony MDR-V6 headset.
In retrospect, I probably could have switched to 24-bit for this, but maybe next time!
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Howdy - good to hear from you! Yeah, this is the same rig I showed you at The Varsity, only Chris set me straight on a few things I was doing wrong at that Meat Puppets show, and I think I finally got it down after we settled in PDX. I was supposed to have run the Holocene show from the stage lip as well, but sound check actually started on time (!), and I was running late, so I went with setting up a taller stand at the soundboard. I think this recording could have benefited by a slight increase of the cards in the mix, but the band was happy with the results here, so I wasn't going to argue.
j, free ?!?
heya heya, fancy seeing you here! Haven't seen you since that M'Pups show we taped last Fall at the Varsity!
Nice samples indeed, thanks for posting!
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Here are some audio clips of The Retake (Trio), recorded live at the Nightlight Lounge (http://virb.com/retake) in Portland, OR on April, 3rd 2009 by J. Free.
These clips were recorded using the custom 4-channel pre-amp (http://www.sonicarchives.com/SOUND/pages/gear.htm#4chbatt) and custom single-line cards (http://www.sonicarchives.com/SOUND/pages/gear.htm#st11ext) built for me by Chris Church.
Each instrument was individually miked and mixed on the spot, in a situation where setting up a couple of room mics would have resulted in a lot of chatter with some background music.