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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: bensyverson on December 05, 2007, 03:34:33 PM
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Hi everyone,
I'm new here, but I've done a lot of reading and searching through the forums... I'm looking for suggestions for hypercardioid condensers. The Schoeps CMC641 comes up a lot, but it's something I would have to save up for for a while.
Are there any viable alternatives in the ~$500 or under range? Here are the mics I've been researching. Some of them are cardioids with patterns as tight or tighter than the hypercardioids. Directionality is a big concern...
AT 4053a
AKG SE300B/CK93
Sennheiser ME64
Rode NT55
Kel Audio P-1 aka MBHO 440
MBHO 603/KA 500
Peluso CEMC6 & hyper cap
Thoughts?
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I'm very pleased with my MBHO 603a + KA500HN performance. They do a great job cutting out crowd noise and still gathering a full stereo signal. I don't use them very frequently, but when I have I've been more than satisfied with the results.
I can't speak to any of the other models here, however, so I'll be curious to see what others think. I'm particularly hopeful that Bean will pop into this thread as he's loves him some hypers and uses them most of the time, or at least whenever he can get away with it...
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Save a few more bucks and buy some 483's. There seem to be a few in the YS still I think.
Best hyper period!
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Buy Twatts ADK TL's in the YS and you will have three more patterns to play with. I love mine especially in small noisy bars which I do most of my taping in.
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,93641.0.html
PEace
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Either the 480s with the CK63 capsule (aka 483s) or the MBHO 603s with the KA500. The AKGs are more popular and easier to find and, as OFOTD said, they're generally considered one of the top hypers in the industry.
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I just noticed we all are running higher then $500 budget of the poster.
Peace
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I just noticed we all are running higher then $500 budget of the poster.
Peace
How much higher is the MBHO 603/KA500?
And how much better is the ULS series than the Blueline?
You guys are lifesavers!
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Save a few more bucks and buy some 48ck63's. There seem to be a few in the YS still I think.
Best hyper period!
Fixed that for you ;D I agree that the ck63 is the best hyper capsule out there. It's a matter of taste, however, whether the ck63 sounds best on a 480, 460, or mod. 460 amplifier body
A c460b(stock)/ck63 pair can be found for not too much over $500...maybe $650ish.
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Save a few more bucks and buy some 48ck63's. There seem to be a few in the YS still I think.
Best hyper period!
Fixed that for you ;D I agree that the ck63 is the best hyper capsule out there. It's a matter of taste, however, whether the ck63 sounds best on a 480, 460, or mod. 460 amplifier body
A c460b(stock)/ck63 pair can be found for not too much over $500...maybe $650ish.
Agreed. ck63. I just have owned several pairs of 480's and own a pair currently. The 460's and JW460's paired with the ck63 caps are real good choices as well. I just have 480 stuck in my brain. +T
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Fixed that for you ;D I agree that the ck63 is the best hyper capsule out there. It's a matter of taste, however, whether the ck63 sounds best on a 480, 460, or mod. 460 amplifier body
A c460b(stock)/ck63 pair can be found for not too much over $500...maybe $650ish.
Awesome! The CK63 sounds good. Is the 460 just an older version of the 480? What mods do people do to the 460?
I'm looking for a really clean, natural sound with low noise. If there's not a huge difference between the 460 and the 480, I might just save that $200 or $300 and go with the 460...
?
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AT 4053a
AKG SE300B/CK93
Sennheiser ME64
Rode NT55
Kel Audio P-1 aka MBHO 440
MBHO 603/KA 500
Peluso CEMC6 & hyper cap
Thoughts?
I don't know about all of them, but the Peluso's will run about ~$600 just for the mics + ~$185 for a matched set of hypers... unless you can find them used.
If you want to stay in budget, Busman has (will have very shortly) a line of mics that come with the preamp bodies, 4 sets of caps, card, sub card, omni & hyper, shockmounts, t-bar and a case for $400.
details here http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,94050.0.html
They will be very similar to modified Avantone CK-1's
You could also just buy a set of Avantone CK-1's for $300 that come with pretty much the same stuff (including a hyper cap with each mic), but no t-bar, no subcard capsule and unmodified by Busman.
I have samples of the modded and unmodded CK-1's if you are interested.
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How much higher is the MBHO 603/KA500?
The problem is finding the HOs and in that combination. I think I've seen the 603's with cardiod caps on the YS that sold in the last couple months for ... what $700??? Hard to find the KA500 used though.
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Fixed that for you ;D I agree that the ck63 is the best hyper capsule out there. It's a matter of taste, however, whether the ck63 sounds best on a 480, 460, or mod. 460 amplifier body
A c460b(stock)/ck63 pair can be found for not too much over $500...maybe $650ish.
Awesome! The CK63 sounds good. Is the 460 just an older version of the 480? What mods do people do to the 460?
I'm looking for a really clean, natural sound with low noise. If there's not a huge difference between the 460 and the 480, I might just save that $200 or $300 and go with the 460...
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Yes, 460 is older and no longer in production from AKG. The JWMod460 is a mod that Jim Williams does to the 460s to make the 460s sound a little different. Many people prefer the stock 460 sound though...everyone has their own opinion.
Not a whole bunch of difference between the sound of the three bodies, but a little. If you search the archive on the term 'AKG comparison' you'll find a study that puts the CK61 and CK63 caps on all three of these bodies.
I'm not quite sure what you're after with the term 'natural sound', but most of us are after sound that accurately reproduces what we hear when the recording is made. I suppose that's what I'd call natural...or the more often used term around here is transparent. The AKG may or may not be that mic...you should give these mics a listen on the archive because AKG mics have their own distinct sound...I'm not saying it's not transparent or anything, but just ...well AKG!
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If you want to stay in budget, Busman has (will have very shortly) a line of mics that come with the preamp bodies, 4 sets of caps, card, sub card, omni & hyper, shockmounts, t-bar and a case for $400.
Yeah, I emailed Chris about this, but haven't heard back yet. I just bought a Busman PMD660, so it would be cool to have a 100% Busman setup. :)
How do you think modified CK1's stack up against a 463/483 setup?
Thank you all so much -- this is beyond helpful!
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If you want to stay in budget, Busman has (will have very shortly) a line of mics that come with the preamp bodies, 4 sets of caps, card, sub card, omni & hyper, shockmounts, t-bar and a case for $400.
Yeah, I emailed Chris about this, but haven't heard back yet. I just bought a Busman PMD660, so it would be cool to have a 100% Busman setup. :)
How do you think modified CK1's stack up against a 463/483 setup?
Thank you all so much -- this is beyond helpful!
You should find some samples and listen for yourself. I don't think that there are samples up on archive yet of the mod CK1's but there are some samples posted in the mic forum. Obviously, there are tons of samples posted in the archive for 483's.
FWIW, I think the mod Avantone's sound pretty dang nice and hold their own. However, the samples I heard I don't think were hypers and you should try to listen to the hyper caps since you've expressed an interest in running mostly hypers. Hypers tend to have a brighter, more brittle sound than their cardiod counterparts, so I wouldn't judge solely on how the cardiod sounds.
One of the things that peeps love about the CK63 caps...that they do a nice job rejecting off-axis sound without losing much warmth.
EDIT: Edited to add link to mod CK1 sample link...
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,94719.0.html
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another good option would be the Audix m1290-hc. Audix makes cardiod, hypers, and omni caps for the m1290's. very small mics, real nice sound, and not too pricy.
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Awesome -- I'm downloading the AKG shootout and CK1b samples now!
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Yeah, I emailed Chris about this, but haven't heard back yet. I just bought a Busman PMD660, so it would be cool to have a 100% Busman setup. :)
I have not heard from him since before the Holiday either... I am sure he is very busy right now trying to get the mics ready... plus a baby... plus a Holiday... I am sure we will hear from him soon.
How do you think modified CK1's stack up against a 463/483 setup?
beyond the scope of my experience... never recorded with those mics.
There should be plenty of samples with AKG's on the LMA
Thank you all so much -- this is beyond helpful!
it is a privilege to be of service.
here is all my Avantone stuff so far... right click to save as... http://fecundswamp.peanutonastring.com/ck1
the Lotus show was CK-1b with subcard caps, not hyper... the hyper samples are at the bottom of the page. Test_ck1b.ogg & Test_ck1b.flac
good look I hope this all helps you decide.
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I own both the AKG 483's and the MBHO KA500 HN's and I LOVE them both. I will never sell either capsule pair :) They both sound amazing in front of my 722.
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Okay... Here are my thoughts after doing some listening...
The stock 460 seems to have a "thicker," more bass-heavy sound than the JW460 or 480. I think it could be better for when you need to punch something up, but the vocals don't have quite the same crispness as the others.
The JW460 sounds extreeeemely close to the 480. Maybe I've been to too many noise shows, but it's a tossup to these ears. They're both very clear and "present" sounding.
The Busman CK-1 is the obvious winner over the CK40 to me... The CK40's bass is out of control, and the vocals sound slightly muffled. In contrast, the CK-1b's vocals and mids are clean and detailed -- it sounds like I'm closer to the band...
Now I wish I could hear a CK-1b vs 483/463JW comparison ;)
I thought I read somewhere that the 480 is transformerless while the 460 is not? Is that the case?
I own both the AKG 483's and the MBHO KA500 HN's and I LOVE them both. I will never sell either capsule pair :) They both sound amazing in front of my 722.
Bean, how would you characterize the difference between the two?
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I am sure he is very busy right now trying to get the mics ready... plus a baby... plus a Holiday...
Ha, that'll do it. :)
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Bean, how would you characterize the difference between the two?
I'm guessing with lots of emote icons.
;D
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Here is another CK-1 w/ hyper sample... this is before they were modded.
http://www.archive.org/details/cj2007-06-10.avantone_ck1
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The pre-mod CK-1s sound pretty good as well... maybe a higher noise floor? Or is that noise coming from the stage?
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The pre-mod CK-1s sound pretty good as well... maybe a higher noise floor? Or is that noise coming from the stage?
The show was recorded a little low. I was not prepared for a show where the applause is the loudest part of the show. So it is a ombination of R-4+mics noise after the levels are normalized.
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I thought I read somewhere that the 480 is transformerless while the 460 is not? Is that the case?
that is correct, and I believe the jwmod removes the transformer from the 460, which may have a lot to do with why you think they sound so similar.
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I really liked running the AKG 393s when I had them. Very nice microphone and you could probably find a pair for under $500. Interchangeable caps as well, so you can run multiple patterns and such.
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I've read a million posts, I've listened to a million samples, now I just can't wait to hear more about the Busman mics. :)
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I'll pimp twatts yardsale too.
The ADKs are heavy, but you get a lot of bang for the buck with 4 patterns. I'm thinking about getting new mics but I like the ADKs and plan on hanging onto them.
Here's a show I recorded last month using the hypers pattern if you wanna listen:
http://www.archive.org/details/rd2007-11-08.adkA51TL.flac
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I'll pimp twatts yardsale too.
The ADKs are heavy, but you get a lot of bang for the buck with 4 patterns. I'm thinking about getting new mics but I like the ADKs and plan on hanging onto them.
Here's a show I recorded last month using the hypers pattern if you wanna listen:
http://www.archive.org/details/rd2007-11-08.adkA51TL.flac
I have plenty of hyper DIN and XY tapes on LMA to check out in a small boomy bar and other venues. Follow bookmarks if interested.
Peace
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I ran some vintage AKG ck3 capsules on Wed. night with c452eb amplifier bodies. I was really happy with the results, and kind of surprised how much low end warmth they had. I expected more brightness, and having heard a few recordings made with c460b/ck63 from the same location, I was very pleased. The ck3 caps seem to me to have a little more mid-high presence vs. the ck63 caps.
I think I still like the ck63s better, but am now anxious to play with the ck3 caps with c460b/a60 vs. c45_ amplifier bodies. Soon than later I hope to do my own comps when I can score a ck63 pair.
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Save a few more bucks and buy some 483's. There seem to be a few in the YS still I think.
Best hyper period!
what he said.
I"ll also chime in for the T.H.E. KA series w/the hyper cap. very nice.
the Oktava hyper cap is exceptional for the money, IMO.
the Audix 1290hc also doesn't suck.