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Author Topic: neumann 184 vs akg 480b 61 caps  (Read 20657 times)

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Offline sygdwm

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Re: neumann 184 vs akg 480b 61 caps
« Reply #30 on: July 26, 2008, 02:26:18 AM »
went 480>ck61/ck63>460>a60>ck1/ck3 and couldnt be happier.
mics: (4)akg c460b(a60,mk46,ck1x,ck1,ck2,ck3,ck61,ck63)
pres: oade m148/edirol wmod ua5
recorders: marantz stock671/oade acm671/fostex busman vintage fr2le

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Offline rokpunk

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Re: neumann 184 vs akg 480b 61 caps
« Reply #31 on: July 26, 2008, 07:37:26 AM »
Quick story....
I own a sound company here in Baltimore. A couple of years ago a few of my engineers and I decided to do a condenser shootout to see which sounded "best" as a high-hat mic. We set up a PA system outside, and set up a drum kit in the shop to isolate it. We mic'ed the kit and had about 8 condensers on the high-hats. Obviously they weren't all in the exact same spot, but they were as close as we could get them. We tested Schoeps CMC6/MK4, AKG 480/ck61, AKG 460/ck61, Neumann KM184, Audix Micro series, plus some others that I can't seem to recall this early in the pre-coffee morning. Long story short, we each kept a small journal of notes, then, when we were done listening to all of the mics, we compared notes. All 4 of us preferred the sound of the 460/ck61 over all the others....so much so that we sold off the Neumanns and bought more 460's.
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Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: neumann 184 vs akg 480b 61 caps
« Reply #32 on: July 26, 2008, 07:50:29 AM »
I'll kick in my own opinion on the mics discussed.

1. 480 / 460  = gobs of detail.  classic AKG shimmery high end..., love them.  made nothing but excellent tapes.  I went from these to the Beyer CK930 set.

2. Beyer..., nice mics.  sort of dark sounding.  very "musical" and pleasing.  not much for hyper detail like the AKG and neumanns.

3. neumanns, colored.  and if you like that sound (the wet, squishy neumann sound, i typically refer to it as), then there really is nothing else.

I would not put the Beyer in the same class, imo.
there is a reason why a pair of them costs $700.  and its not because Beyerdynamic has enough $$ to offer "something for next to nothing" in this catagory of high-end studio condensers.

IMO, of course.  the AKG 480 / ck61 is definitely the most transparent of the pack.  And building off of RockPunk's test, AKGs just "jump out at you" w/any sort of percussion.  That is why they are my favorite mic for band that are drum/perc heavy.  WSP, prime example.  nothing tapes Panic better than AKG.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2008, 07:53:54 AM by Nick's Picks »

Offline bhadella

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Re: neumann 184 vs akg 480b 61 caps
« Reply #33 on: July 26, 2008, 10:41:14 AM »
Having been thru both mod 461/463's and 140's, I definitely prefer Neumann cards.  Never was really happy with any AKG card tapes. 

But if I ever lived somewhere where I would need a set of hypers and couldn't pony up for ck41's, I'd definitely pickup a set of 63's. 
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stirinthesauce

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Re: neumann 184 vs akg 480b 61 caps
« Reply #34 on: July 26, 2008, 11:39:04 AM »
I'm with Nick in the fact that I wouldn't put the beyers in the same class.  They are most definitly in a class above the akg's 480's and neumanns 184's.  Personally, I can't stand the sound of the 480/ck61.  The neumanns are nice, but nothing special.  Sound muffled on the top end (why I prefer the beyers).  Owned two pairs (930's and 803's), both for at least a year and have run with a wide variety of preamps/ad's.  Currently own milabs.  They sound great, but not 1000 dollars better.  In fact, i still prefer the beyers.  I will probably go back to beyers.  Never will own akg's (have run them plenty).  Never will I own shempz (for obvious reasons   >:D  ),  and never will I own ho's (can't fucking stand them).  Like rockpunk, I did a shootout one night.  On an acoustic Martin guitar one night.  There is a pic in rig pics from a few years ago detailing this shootout. The beyers won hands down. 

Sometimes we need to quit thinking that more expenisive means better.

Sometimes we need to own mics more than 2 months and run with a variety of different gear to formulate an opinion.   ;)

Sometimes (all the time) there will be differing opinions.
 
Sometimes mics are better suited for differing situations.

Sometimes (all the time) these thread topics are ridiculous. 



Listen and make a decision for yourself.

To sum up my opinion,

The reason why one person will choose a certain mic is the exact same reason why the next person will not.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2008, 11:47:57 AM by stirinthesauce »

Offline TNJazz

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Re: neumann 184 vs akg 480b 61 caps
« Reply #35 on: July 26, 2008, 11:46:10 AM »

Sometimes we need to own mics more than 2 months and run with a variety of different gear to formulate an opinion.   ;)



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stirinthesauce

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Re: neumann 184 vs akg 480b 61 caps
« Reply #36 on: July 26, 2008, 11:49:26 AM »

Sometimes we need to own mics more than 2 months and run with a variety of different gear to formulate an opinion.   ;)



BLASPHEMY !

How many pairs of akg's and neumann's have you owned over the years?  I wonder why the 2 pairs of beyers remain in your locker and there are no neumanns or 480's?   ;)  >:D

Offline TNJazz

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Re: neumann 184 vs akg 480b 61 caps
« Reply #37 on: July 26, 2008, 11:52:08 AM »

Sometimes we need to own mics more than 2 months and run with a variety of different gear to formulate an opinion.   ;)



BLASPHEMY !

How many pairs of akg's and neumann's have you owned over the years?  I wonder why the 2 pairs of beyers remain in your locker and there are no neumanns or 480's?   ;)  >:D


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Offline illconditioned

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Re: neumann 184 vs akg 480b 61 caps
« Reply #38 on: July 27, 2008, 12:43:57 AM »
I'll kick in my own opinion on the mics discussed.

1. 480 / 460  = gobs of detail.  classic AKG shimmery high end..., love them.  made nothing but excellent tapes.  I went from these to the Beyer CK930 set.

2. Beyer..., nice mics.  sort of dark sounding.  very "musical" and pleasing.  not much for hyper detail like the AKG and neumanns.

3. neumanns, colored.  and if you like that sound (the wet, squishy neumann sound, i typically refer to it as), then there really is nothing else.

I would not put the Beyer in the same class, imo.
there is a reason why a pair of them costs $700.  and its not because Beyerdynamic has enough $$ to offer "something for next to nothing" in this catagory of high-end studio condensers.

IMO, of course.  the AKG 480 / ck61 is definitely the most transparent of the pack.  And building off of RockPunk's test, AKGs just "jump out at you" w/any sort of percussion.  That is why they are my favorite mic for band that are drum/perc heavy.  WSP, prime example.  nothing tapes Panic better than AKG.

It is possible that the AKG have more detail.  I haven't used them enough.  But for me there is something irritating about the sound.  It sounds "edgy" or "scratchy" somehow in the upper mids.  Things like tamborine, snare, and vocal simbalence (sp?) bother me somehow.  Sort of like a distored DPA mic (ducks).  But even the DPA I find are lacking something.  "Clinical" or "not musical" is the common catchphrase.  So, while Beyerdynamic may not have as much detail, it has a reasonable amount, it is not colored like the Neumann, and it just "sounds good" to my ears.

I've been thinking mics might be rated on at least three apsects: Color vs neutral, Detail, and Distortion.  For me, I cannot tolerate any distortion at all.  Of the other two, I would rather have an uncolored mic over a detailed mic.

This doesn't explain why I dislike DPA 4060 though.  It seems to have all three, yet I just don't enjoy listening.  Maybe there is a fourth quality, "Musical".  A physicist once suggested that humans like distortion that has even harmonics, but dislike odd harmonics.  So, maybe DPA have some odd harmonics in their (very low) distortion.  Don't know how one would measure this though.

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Offline jkbyram

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Re: neumann 184 vs akg 480b 61 caps
« Reply #39 on: July 27, 2008, 10:13:43 AM »
  Personally, I can't stand the sound of the 480/ck61




Sometimes we need to quit thinking that more expensive means better.

this is why i love my 460/ck1 combo, i think it is much better than 480/ck61


unfortunately this is the mentality with most here.

stirinthesauce

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Re: neumann 184 vs akg 480b 61 caps
« Reply #40 on: July 27, 2008, 12:32:13 PM »
  Personally, I can't stand the sound of the 480/ck61




Sometimes we need to quit thinking that more expensive means better.

this is why i love my 460/ck1 combo, i think it is much better than 480/ck61


unfortunately this is the mentality with most here.

Kevin, your combo (460/ck1) I actually really like.  For the same reason why I dislike the 480 ck61.

Offline datbrad

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Re: neumann 184 vs akg 480b 61 caps
« Reply #41 on: July 28, 2008, 04:27:42 PM »
Transformers really can make a big difference in a microphone's perceived sound attributes, which explains the differences people hear between 480s and JW mod 460s versus stock 460s. With stock 460s, lacking a direct galvanic connection to the power supply/preamp, the transfer of signal via magnetic field instead of by direct circuit brings the quality of "warmth" that is associated with transformers.

I have carefully listened to a bunch a JW mod 460 recordings over the years compared with stock 460s and 480s. There is definately a coloration difference between all 3. However, for my ears, the smooth mid range the transformers give in the stock 460s are missing from the transformerless JW mod 460s and the 480s. I asked Jim a few years ago about this and he said for close instrument mic'ing in a studio setting, he felt transformerless was the way to go due to the accuracy, but also said he could understand transformer benefits in field recording situations that we mostly operation in. He suggested that he could do the same mod he does now to upgrade the op amps and caps, and also replace the stock AKG transformer with a Jensen transformer with better performance.

Jim said none of his normal clients have ever asked for this, but he was willing to give it a shot for just a few bucks more than his standard upgrade. I got cold feet and never took him up on it.
AKG C460B w/CK61/CK63>Luminous Monarch XLRs>SD MP-1(x2)>Luminous Monarch XLRs>PMD661(Oade WMOD)

Beyer M201>Luminous Monarch XLRs>PMD561 (Oade CMOD)

Offline carlbeck

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Re: neumann 184 vs akg 480b 61 caps
« Reply #42 on: July 28, 2008, 08:10:46 PM »
Transformers really can make a big difference in a microphone's perceived sound attributes, which explains the differences people hear between 480s and JW mod 460s versus stock 460s. With stock 460s, lacking a direct galvanic connection to the power supply/preamp, the transfer of signal via magnetic field instead of by direct circuit brings the quality of "warmth" that is associated with transformers.

I have carefully listened to a bunch a JW mod 460 recordings over the years compared with stock 460s and 480s. There is definately a coloration difference between all 3. However, for my ears, the smooth mid range the transformers give in the stock 460s are missing from the transformerless JW mod 460s and the 480s. I asked Jim a few years ago about this and he said for close instrument mic'ing in a studio setting, he felt transformerless was the way to go due to the accuracy, but also said he could understand transformer benefits in field recording situations that we mostly operation in. He suggested that he could do the same mod he does now to upgrade the op amps and caps, and also replace the stock AKG transformer with a Jensen transformer with better performance.

Jim said none of his normal clients have ever asked for this, but he was willing to give it a shot for just a few bucks more than his standard upgrade. I got cold feet and never took him up on it.

Damn, now that sounds like a great idea! I wonder how serious he would be about doing this?
I know you like, tape for people's approval and stuff, and wave your tapes around like they're your dick...  but even you can't actually think section tapes from philips sound good.  



Mics: Telefunken Elam 260, 61, 62, MBHO KA200, KA500 > Niant PFA's, AKG C34L-MS
Preamps: Grace Lunatec V2, Shure FP24
Decks: Tascam DR-2d, Zoom F8

Old rig: Recording: AKG C34 & AKG CK1X or CK2X > MK46 > 460 > Aeta Mix2000 > Sound Devices 702

Playback: Thorens TD125, Denon DVD-2900> Bel Canto DAC-1 > Audible Illusions 3B > Rogue Atlas >ZU Wax Shotgun> Hyperion 938
ALL TUBES BABY!!!

Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: neumann 184 vs akg 480b 61 caps
« Reply #43 on: July 29, 2008, 07:30:25 AM »
no shit !!

Offline datbrad

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Re: neumann 184 vs akg 480b 61 caps
« Reply #44 on: July 29, 2008, 04:07:19 PM »
Still have cold feat....maybe I could pick up a pair of used 460 bodies and have Jim try doing the transformer mod version, and if I don't like it, I still have my original stock bodies to fall back on.

Hmmmm.............this thread is making me think...............
AKG C460B w/CK61/CK63>Luminous Monarch XLRs>SD MP-1(x2)>Luminous Monarch XLRs>PMD661(Oade WMOD)

Beyer M201>Luminous Monarch XLRs>PMD561 (Oade CMOD)

 

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