Topic: boundary mics

[intpseeker]

I was just reading a promo for boundary mics from b&h. Are there any applications for what we do?

[John Willett]

It depends what you do.

They are excellent mics for recording in many situation - not stealth, though.

[rokpunk]

It depends what you do.

They are excellent mics for recording in many situation - not stealth, though.

Would I use them for recording a concert, hell no, but I use them on a daily basis for sound reinforcement at corporate meetings when there are a bunch of talking heads sitting around a conference table.

[Javier Cinakowski]

It depends what you do.

They are excellent mics for recording in many situation - not stealth, though.

Would I use them for recording a concert, hell no, but I use them on a daily basis for sound reinforcement at corporate meetings when there are a bunch of talking heads sitting around a conference table.

Recording a concert from the section, absolutly not.  But recording from stage lip there is a strong argument to be made for boundary/pzm mics.  The boundry mics reduce many reflections and give a really nice clean sound.  I have found recording jazz groups (without vocals) stage lip with boundary mics is about as good as it gets. 

Here is a pull with a pair of U851R boundary mics split on the stage lip.  This is a jazz band in a really shitty sounding lounge with glass walls on all sides and hardwood floors.  Tough room to get a nice sound in....

http://www.archive.org/details/grimace2007-10-29

[kskreider]

Bob Cogswell out here in the Bay Area uses pzm's to supplement his on-stage recordings.  You can check out a lot of his recordings here on the LMA.

[Gutbucket]

I find boundary mounting a useful technique to control echoy ambiences and add some presence that would be laking with omnis in other cofigs, and though not usually applicable for typical stealth recording, mics mounted on a surface instead of a stand are very unobtrusive and often invisible.

It's not the usual way I use them, but I've used dpa 4060's in boundary mounted situations for concert recording with great results.  I sometimes use the rubber DPA boundary mount adapters made for this purpose, but other times I just place or tape the mics to the surface (the mounts add a bit of additional boost around 10khz because of the tiny sound opening slot I suspect).

One situation had a concrete wall directly behind the soundboard and taping section at the rear of a shallow room. I taped the mics in the boundary mounts to the wall separated by about 3'.  The elimination of the bounce off the rear wall plus the added clarity and slightly reduced ambient ratio due to the boundary mounting worked much better than anywhere else in that case.

They are excellent mics for recording in many situation - not stealth, though.

One scenario I use regularly, similar to what Javier mentioned, works extremely well for a jazz trio on an outside patio.  We sit at a cafe table directly in front of the band and patrons pass between us and the band to enter the cafe.  I treat it as a non-open taping situation even though it could be, for several reasons -elimination of setup, not wanting to draw attention to recording for both the patrons and band's sake (the band knows), and believe it or not I can get superior mic placement this way.  I place the mics just above the floor in my shoes which gets closer to the band, provides nice boundary effect clarity for the the drums and especially the guitar and organ amps which are also on the floor, and 'looks though' the least shadowing portion of the people passing between us and the band - their ankles. 

Granted that application doesn't apply to many situations but works perfectly in this case.

[Gutbucket]

Also for typical stand style recording I think there are some Dead & Phish tapes from years past made with the Crown SASS baffle thing that used Crown PZM's.. I haven't heard them though.

[kskreider]

I think that is what Cogswell uses, the SASS setup.

[Will_S]

Yeah, Cogswell uses the Crown SASS setup.  While it uses PZM mics, the mounting (up higher) and small boundary surface (as opposed to being on a wall or the floor) makes the end result pretty different from what you'd get with standard boundary mics.

Moe's alley runs a house mix for recording that's SBD+PZM mics onstage.  http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=venue%3A%22Moe%27s%20Alley%22%20pzm

[Gutbucket]

Just to confuse things farther, there are also some SASS baffles modified to use omnis other than Crown PZMs.

[Krispy D]

I have made some great sounding choral group recordings using boundary pzm's and music stands as baffles.

[mblindsey]

Bob Cogswell out here in the Bay Area uses pzm's to supplement his on-stage recordings.  You can check out a lot of his recordings here on the LMA.

I'm impressed.  I like what he is doing with those mics...

--Michael

[Will_S]

But note, as Keith first pointed out, he's using the SASS mics IN ADDITION to another pair of run of the mill cardioids.  Usually he has the SASS on stage and the cardioid pair either FOH or suspended just in front of each main PA stack.

[anechoic]

find a pair of cheap Radio Shack PZM mics and read these pages:

http://www.jdbsound.com/art/art520.html
http://www.uneeda-audio.com/#pzm

I mod'd a pair of RS PZM's last year to PIP and attached a stereo 3.5mm plug

while I like the sound of them for sfx and certain ambiances
the capsules are pr0lly Panasonic WM60 equivalents so their self-noise is not great

[fobstl]

I have a pair of 9 volt mod Realistic PZM mics that I recorded shows with for years. There were a bunch of guys using them around 93, 94, 95. Made some pretty good tapes with them when the conditions were right.