Topic: Mics for Backcountry - Jungle, Safari etc..

[speedo]

I'm going to get a Sound Devices field recorder for some sample libraries I'm working on over the next year. The sounds will be nature in remote areas of central, s. america, hawaii, new zealand and africa. I will be backpacking in mostly.

I want them to be as high quality as possible. I'm wondering what kinds of mics I should get. I love the sound of Schoeps, but not sure if they'll withstand the humidity of a tropical rain forest.

Anyone have any experience in this field. I have a decent budget so that's not a huge worry - just wondering what your recommendations might be for a nice assortment of mics for high quality outdoor field recording.

[xpander]

I'm slowly gearing up for the same task, just that my conditions will be more arctic than tropical. I haven't got any decent mics yet, but certainly do have some ideas of what to look for. Since I don't have the first hand experience on these, I can't really recommend anything.

But you might find some of these following articles and sites interesting. Some of the gear might be more or less outdated, but there's handy info too.

Electronic Musician, Going Wild
http://emusician.com/daw/emusic_going_wild/
Electronic Musician, Bernie Krause interview in full
http://emusician.com/em_spotlight/bernie_krause_interview/index.html

Naturerecordists, E-Mail group for the people interested in nature recording. If you have time for search, the archives have lots of information.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/naturerecordists/

Wildlife Sound Recording Society
http://www.wildlife-sound.org/equipment/index.html

http://www.f7sound.com/field-recording.htm

[speedo]

Great resources. Thanks for that.

Seems like the MKH series might be the way to go for tropical forest work. Do you think with the 30 and 40 set up I would be good to go?

I'm wondering if I should get the piggy back trigger or a stand for ms setup... I'd rather not backpack with a stand but maybe there's some foldy lightweight think I can use.

[spcyrfc]

Great resources. Thanks for that.

Seems like the MKH series might be the way to go for tropical forest work. Do you think with the 30 and 40 set up I would be good to go?

I'm wondering if I should get the piggy back trigger or a stand for ms setup... I'd rather not backpack with a stand but maybe there's some foldy lightweight think I can use.

is the ability to handle humidity a universal with sennheiser?  traveling soon and wondering about brining along some mkh8040's.  maybe picking up a senn figure 8.

on a side note, any ideas on insuring gear while traveling abroad?

[speedo]

I'm also curious with a m-s setup how would you monitor if you a) don't have a mixer in the field and b) your recorder doesn't have a decoding option?

I guess my question is this: Is m-s monitoring completely necessary? Can you get decent results simply by monitoring the M and S separately in your cans?

[ghellquist]

Seems like the MKH series might be the way to go for tropical forest work. Do you think with the 30 and 40 set up I would be good to go?

You will definitely get the sound with a MKH30/40 and it will work in harsher conditions than many mics. Add a Rycote Windshield and it will work in wind conditions as well. Add the Sound Devices recorder and a pair of headphones and you are ready to go. Ready to carry a sort bulky combination around as well and ready to part with a bit of cash. I do have that combination and it really shines.

One idea if possible -- try to rent / borrow the equipment a day or two before buying. This will allow you to experiment and gives a much better feeling what is involved. Do check on battery charging - I run a few extra batteries + a combined wall charger / 12 V charger.

Personally, I am not fully convinced of the newe 80xx series yet and their roadworthyness. I believe all the MKH-s share same technology base and would stand tropical heat the same. But it has to be tested if you ask me. No figure 8 in the series yet.

Gunnar

[xpander]

is the ability to handle humidity a universal with sennheiser?  traveling soon and wondering about brining along some mkh8040's.  maybe picking up a senn figure 8.

As far as I know, its the RF condenser technology which makes these mics way better at handling the humidity. I have no idea if all Sennheisers are made like this, for example that MKH8040 seems to. I'm sure mic expert like DSatz could tell better what RF biasing is and what other brands (if any) would have similar technology or handle humidity nicely otherwise.

I guess my question is this: Is m-s monitoring completely necessary? Can you get decent results simply by monitoring the M and S separately in your cans?

M/S monitoring is not necessary as long as you are still able to do what you want, but for sure it would help. The little tests that I've done without, at first it was confusing to position the mics since you don't hear the real stereo field. After a while you might get used to that though. Again, I have too little experience on this to be definitive.

Even if your pre/recorder doesn't have M/S-decoding (monitoring), you could have a separate M/S headphone decoder. I've seen both passive decoders made with transformers and active designs.

Here's one example of the latter, DIY to boot.
http://www.pugetsoundman.com/articles/MSheadphone.htm


edit: ghellquist wrote some info too, while I was at it...thanks.

[shaggy]

I'm also curious with a m-s setup how would you monitor if you a) don't have a mixer in the field and b) your recorder doesn't have a decoding option?

I guess my question is this: Is m-s monitoring completely necessary? Can you get decent results simply by monitoring the M and S separately in your cans?

The SD 7XX series will allow you record discreet M and S channels while allowing you to monitor it as a decoded L and R.  You can mix it to taste in post.  Read the manual carefully and dry-run it a few times before you hit the road.

As far as environmental/nature mics go, I heard that the Audio Technica AT3032 is the most quiet mic for the money.  The nature recordists love these mics.  It is an omni so you will need a baffle or space them out a bit.  The other thing is that they are out of production but still can be found new if you poke around a bit.

[deedee]

is the obvious being overlooked here?
the dpa 406x series can be cleaned by immersing them in a glass of distilled water, and then repowered to help in drying them out. says so right in the owners manual.
A little humidity?

[speedo]

I record professional commercial sound libraries - mainly instruments up until now, but this will be my first incursion into nature recording. I am definitely after a professional system. Our company's quality standards are very high. As we all know, the gear won't always get you the best sound, so I'm thinking that I could get a system better budgeted that will still yield pro results.

After adding the costs together and seeing the physical bulk I'm thinking of slimming down the system to be more cost and travel effective. I've been doing a ton of research over the past few days and rather than getting the sound devices and mkh setup I'm thinking of going for the fostex fr2le and a Sure Vp88. This will be about $2k cheaper and a few microphones smaller and lighter - afterall, I do have to carry food and water too! I suppose I could throw a pair of omnis in the mix.

Does this seem like a legit system for professional work? I guess my question now is, should I consider getting a decent preamp for the fostex? Is it worth the extra weight, cost, bulk?

[it-goes-to-eleven]

As far as environmental/nature mics go, I heard that the Audio Technica AT3032 is the most quiet mic for the money.  The nature recordists love these mics.

Interesting.  I am also planning some remote nature recording this summer (leaving SOON) and trying to decide what to run.  I was leaning toward 4061's, since they are my only omnis (and they're tiny).  Though the 4061 self noise is rather high at 26-28dB.

As a comparison, I see the schoeps mk21at 14dB, mk2 at 12dB, and AT3032 at 16dB.  There is a big difference between 26 and 16 dB, but I wonder how significant it is in the big picture of quiet nature recording?  Gain tends to be quite high.

I haven't decided between the AERCO (smaller, easier unbal input) or V3 (more detail, probably even more quiet).  I haven't run the AERCO at very high gain, where I know the v3 is quiet.  I was going to run into the r09, but now that I think about it, using the v3's a/d into the dreaded microtrack would probably be more quiet.

I will have a lot of time to record in some incredibly quiet places, so I do want to do it right.  I need more mics like I need a hole in my head

To deedee's earlier point about cleaning the DPAs in water...  Just because they can be cleaned that way doesn't in itself say how they work in humidity.. Though it is very encouraging from a field fix standpoint.

I haven't done nature recording before, so if anyone has pointers to FAQs, etc, they would be very welcome!

[xpander]

No matter how wonderful lavaliers would be as far as handling and maintenance goes, I don't think their performance would be ideal in nature and field work otherwise. As I've understood, in general their frequency response might be too limited and self noise too high to handle quiet sources well. All this dependent on the application too, of course.

The afore mentioned Sennheiser MKH-series and AT303X have been on my short list of possibilities for quite some time and so far I've not been able to find much more suitable for my needs, as per all the tips and advice given.

[OOK]

The Rode NTG3 might fit the bill for the environment your going into....here is how rode describes it...I own Rode's NT2000 and the quality is excellent...I don't own an NTG3 but would assume the quality is the same....

Peace OOK

The NTG-3 is the result of years of development by RØDE engineers, providing the professional broadcast and film industries with an affordable yet uncompromising microphone.

Using a technology known as RF-bias the RØDE NTG-3 is almost completely resistant to moisture, making it the only option when recording in any demanding environments where condensation is an issue.

In addition to its robust properties the NTG-3 combines very low weight (163g), a durable anti-glare finish and incredibly low handling and self-noise (13dBA) to become RØDE’s premier A/V microphone.

When not in use the NTG-3 can be stored away in the included weather resistant aluminium storage cylinder, providing additional protection when travelling and storing the microphone.

    * Designed to withstand adverse environmental conditions
    * 50% less self-noise than the majority of shotgun microphones
    * True condenser (externally RF biased)
    * Extremely low handling noise
    * High level of immunity to radio frequency broadcast
    * Superior broadcast sound quality
    * Weather resistant aluminum storage cylinder included

Power     P48 (48V) phantom supply
Acoustic Principle    Line Gradient
Directional Pattern    Super Cardioid
Frequency range    40 Hz - 20 kHz
Output impedance    25Ω
Signal noise ratio    81 dB SPL (A - weighted per IEC651)
Equivalent noise    13 dB SPL (A - weighted per IEC651)
Maximum SPL    130dB SPL (@ 1kHz, 1% THD into 1KΩ load)
Maximum output voltage    8.2dBu (@ 1kHz, 1% THD into 1KΩ load)
Sensitivity    -30 dB re 1 Volt/Pascal (31.6 mV @ 94 dB SPL) +/- 2 dB @ 1kHz
Weight    163gm
Dimensions    255mmH x 19mmW x 19mmD

http://usa.rodemic.com/images/mics/ntg-3_polar.jpg

http://usa.rodemic.com/images/mics/ntg-3_freq.jpg

http://usa.rodemic.com/images/mics/ntg-3_quarter_front.jpg

http://usa.rodemic.com/images/mics/ntg-3_001.jpg

http://usa.rodemic.com/images/mics/ntg-3_with_case.jpg

[it-goes-to-eleven]

The adverse weather ability of the rf mics is interesting...  Though I'm glad I'm not going where it is humid.

I'm also more interested in non-directional ambient mics.  They tend to sound more natural, especially at lower price points.

[spcyrfc]

the main points i am considering for a travel kit are


- quality (of course)
- size/form
- battery life / hd space
- durability
- expense

   I own a vp-88 and have just begun to do cityscapes with it.  haven't had enough time to put it through the ringer and test the self noise in nature situations.  The mic itself is huge, a little heavy, but feel durable.  at the used market price point, if there is any left over cash it seems to me, will be a versatile mic to carry.  walking through the city with it in its shock mount with a rode windscreen and a pistol grip is a breeze.  so far, i have been pleased with the quality, but have not yet put it thru to a quiet test. 

i have been very pleased with the battery life of the sony d-50 (twelve hours) and the aerco on a dvd battery (at least 12 hours). add the seamless transition to internals and your over 20 hours for the preamp.  the sony is a little big, but solid.  much more solid, IME than the fr2-le, tho it is a great box.  that said, i don't know if i will ever need 20 hrs of record time without a recharge, but if i did, i would be glad to have it.

i have been thinking about picking up a 20-70 aerco for quiet sounds. 

great thread.