Topic: Mic upgrade need advise

[swordfish]

Hi TS,

I am trying to improve my system.  But don't know if I am marching in the right way..

Thought about getting the soundprofessionals SP-CMC-4U Hypercardoid and cardoid cap or the CA 14.

I use the below listed equipment with an EDIROL R09-HR at the present.  And have to admmitt that lately I am very pleased with the DPA's and CA 9100 in smaller clubs.

SP-CMC-8 with the omni and the cardoid caps and the SP-SPSB-11 BB.
For smalller clubs and acoustic shows I use the DPA 4061 with an CA 9100 or a 9 V mintbox.

Have to say that I only do stealth recordings often in venues without security checking bags at the entrance which is quite convenient.

For larger veues 1500-3000 I thought about the above mentioned SP-CMC-4U. Does that make sense or should I invest more money in a naiant littlebox to get more headroom.

I am open for all suggestions ....and I still consider myself a newbie/rockkie to taping ..so bear with me...

Cheers SFT

[Nick's Picks]

you've got good mics, and a nice deck.
I would stick w/the DPA/9100 combo.  that's hard to beat.  Just focus on *where* you are at this point.  its all about location.

If you need cards, then i'd go straight for those Church CA14's.

[swordfish]

you've got good mics, and a nice deck.
I would stick w/the DPA/9100 combo.  that's hard to beat.  Just focus on *where* you are at this point.  its all about location.

If you need cards, then i'd go straight for those Church CA14's.

I know the CA 14 is a good mic ...but not really stealthy...as well I thought about a hyper element ......if you are further away from stage and you are not able to walk a CA 9100 and a recorder in addtion thru security...

Just my 2 Cents

SFT

But I don't know if I make the right assumptions....being far a way from stage to get a decent recording with hyper caps/Battery Box without the CA 9100

[Nick's Picks]

nope.  you want to use the basic formula of the equalateral triangle.
distance between the STACKS...,, and stand that distance away from the stage.
so if the PA is 40' from one side to the other on stage, then being 40-60' away from stage should yield good results.

Remember, the sound guy is dialing it in to his ears.  if you are near the board, you are hearing what he hears, how he wants it to sound, and likely one of the "sweet spots" in the venue.
You really need to sort of walk around while the house music is playing (before the band starts) and just listen.  Plant yourself where you think it sounds best.

Sneaking a 9100>R9 in for a stealth situation is not too hard.
Just think like a taping Jedi, have good excuses on hand for questions at the door...and you're good to go.

[swordfish]

nope.  you want to use the basic formula of the equalateral triangle.
distance between the STACKS...,, and stand that distance away from the stage.
so if the PA is 40' from one side to the other on stage, then being 40-60' away from stage should yield good results.

Remember, the sound guy is dialing it in to his ears.  if you are near the board, you are hearing what he hears, how he wants it to sound, and likely one of the "sweet spots" in the venue.
You really need to sort of walk around while the house music is playing (before the band starts) and just listen.  Plant yourself where you think it sounds best.

Sneaking a 9100>R9 in for a stealth situation is not too hard.
Just think like a taping Jedi, have good excuses on hand for questions at the door...and you're good to go.

So all I need are 'balls'...My equipment got confisicated once...before a show I really wanted to tape...and at another venue..the recording sounded quite 'thin when I was very far away....but at that time I had problems with my BB.

So there is still the open question if I should replace the soundprofessionals SP-CMC-8 with the SP-CMC-4U...Or can anybody point to a stealthy cardoid mic?

Thanks in advance,

SFT

[jefflester]

So there is still the open question if I should replace the soundprofessionals SP-CMC-8 with the SP-CMC-4U

That seems like a lateral move. You said you have the card caps for the CMC-8. In small venues when you are close use the DPA 4061, when you are further away in a larger venue, use the CMC-8 with cards. If that is not satisfying you, yes you are looking for an upgrade there. If the CA-14s don't seem right, the CA-11s are smaller and are (from what I understand) a step up from the Audio-Technicas used in the SP products. Chris has indicated the CA-11 cardiods are directionally between cardiod and hyper-cardiod. You could also try hypercard caps for your CMC-8 as an option. Is there a reason you don't use the 9100 with the CMC-8? And I don't think you want a Littlebox, that's significantly larger than the 9100 or your battery box.

Me, I just recently ordered some Audix 1280 cardiod caps and the Church active cables* along with a CA-UGLY for precisely this reason, to get a very small card setup to complement my DPA4061 (Core Sound HEB). The DPAs are great for any small/up close situation, but in larger situations I wanted some small cards because the omnis pick up too much room/audience. There are also hyper caps in that Audix line. I am a 95% stealther and also a bit paranoid about the size of my gear. I have been stopped at the door a couple of times in the past and it was not pleasant, though it was with older and larger equipment.


*See: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=124072.0;all

[Nick's Picks]

that does indeed look like a great setup.
Hmmm....

[Belexes]

Having owned SP-CMC-8's and SP-CMC-4U's...the 4U's are far and away an improvement.  The 8's to me sounded thin and completely lacked any low end.  The 4's bring more fullness to the sound and more low end.

Be discreet with your taping and use larger mics. Jedi skills go a long way.

[Fried Chicken Boy]

the CA-11s are smaller and are (from what I understand) a step up from the Audio-Technicas used in the SP products.

I have/use both the CA-11 and SP-CMC-2 (which many feel are a little lower down the food chain from the 4's and 8's) and think they're both good mic sets but also feel that going from the SP-CMC-8 to CA-11 would be another lateral move for you.  I find them pretty similar in their overall sound, the quality is neck and neck, and in size, the the CA-11 is a little smaller but not by a vastly significant amount.

I'm siding with Nick on this: your mics and rig are good, maybe it's your location in the venue?  Or maybe, like most of us here, you just want to buy more gear.   It's a never-ending hobby...

[swordfish]

I have been gone for a few days..thanks for all the responses so far.

after recording of 40 shows I consider myself still a newbie ....I have done video and audio and I think I have a feeling for sweet spots in the venue by now...nevertheless I hope to improve the gear....But I dont know if It makes sense to spend the money if the upgrade it not significant ....I will listen to samples for the M1280 caps..but I think they are not real stealthy...

1. So does it make sense to buy hyper cardoid caps....for larger venues?

2. Are the CA 14 larger then the audio technica caps from SP?

3. Are the CA 14 a lateral move to the SP-CMC-4U.

It was mentioned before that the SP-CMC-4U will be an improvemnet to the SP-CMC-8 !!!

SFT






 

[Nick's Picks]

1. hypers might help, but not just for larger venues.  works well for chatty crowd control too.  They are not as natural sounding to my ears, but the GOOD ONES are awesome (by good ones, i'm talking way outside the budget of these other mics).  Although, I'm a fan of the Oktava mc012 hyper cap.  that sounds pretty decent out of their selection.  Not stealthy though.

2. ca14 vs. AT853 caps, not sure.  the difference would be minor at best (guessing) as the AT caps are pretty small on their own.

3. thats a question for Chris Church, he'll give you an honest answer on sound w/o $$ being in the equation of his through process.

Honestly, the more I go through this thread..., my conclusion would be
- sell the DPAs
- by the Church Audio cables for the Audix 12xx series.
- buy the card and hyper caps for those
YOU ARE DONE ! , and have a nice upgrade in microphones in the all around sense of things.  I used to have the 1290hc from Audix, pulled some outstanding recordings with them.

[swordfish]

1. hypers might help, but not just for larger venues.  works well for chatty crowd control too.  They are not as natural sounding to my ears, but the GOOD ONES are awesome (by good ones, i'm talking way outside the budget of these other mics).  Although, I'm a fan of the Oktava mc012 hyper cap.  that sounds pretty decent out of their selection.  Not stealthy though.

2. ca14 vs. AT853 caps, not sure.  the difference would be minor at best (guessing) as the AT caps are pretty small on their own.

3. thats a question for Chris Church, he'll give you an honest answer on sound w/o $$ being in the equation of his through process.

Honestly, the more I go through this thread..., my conclusion would be
- sell the DPAs
- by the Church Audio cables for the Audix 12xx series.
- buy the card and hyper caps for those
YOU ARE DONE ! , and have a nice upgrade in microphones in the all around sense of things.  I used to have the 1290hc from Audix, pulled some outstanding recordings with them.

The audix are not real stealthy...Aren't they....1290hc means Hyper Caps?  Are there any Clips available for those caps...?

I know lots of questions but ...

Thanks SFT

[MJ]

The cheapest and surest upgrade for you is to buy adapters for AT853 and AT853 caps(card?) at Yard Sale. 
SP-CMC-8(AT943s) bodies adapters with SP-CMC-4 (AT 853s) caps>CA9100>M-10 sounds pretty good to my ears.

Here is a sample I recorded with the set-up above.

Jeff Beck(Osaka 2nd) Stratus/Led Boots
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=SQJYP58W
Jeff Beck(Osaka 2nd) Led Boots
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=YYIFLKRX

The important thing is what kind of sound you want and where in the venue you usually you tape.  Each microphone has unique flavors like ice cream.  Pick the one you like.

If you tape up-close to the stage and want the in-your-face sound, you should go for DPA or Audix micro line.  But if you tape close to the sweet sound spot in the venue, then you should go for CMC-8 bodies and CMC-4 caps……Of course IMO

Here is another sample.  Just in case you wonder how it sounds.
Audix Micro Caps + CA-11 cables (Already ordered real church cables)

Jeff Beck(Osaka 1st)Stratus/Led Boots
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=H3XRL398
Jeff Beck(Osaka 1st)Led Boots
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=1B06YVKW

Koichi

[swordfish]

Hi ,

I am a step further since the last time.  I just traded my SP-CMC-8(AT943s) witha SP-CMC-4 (will test also the HC caps)in addition I plan to order the audix caps(C,HC) and will ask Chris to build the cables for me.  The problem is to get these caps Northface will not sent to Europe...but I convinced a friend of mine to place the order for me.  But that won't happen before the end of April...so everything is in the works at the moment.

Thanks for all the advise and help,

swordfish

[su6oxone]

The audix are not real stealthy...Aren't they....1290hc means Hyper Caps?  Are there any Clips available for those caps...?

The Audix 1280/1290 caps are the same size as the Church Audio CA-11 caps, and if you get the aforementioned cables/bodies that Chris Church makes for them, they should be perfect for ste@lthing.  I think that might be the best way to go because you can use the Audix omni, cardioid, and hypercardioid caps with that setup, it's easily ste@lthable, and should sound great.  A TSer (mterry I think) has made some great Phish tapes with the 1290hc caps, I would try to check them out (etree).  For clips, you can use those small clips that Sound Pro sells or you could probably ask Chris to attach some alligator clips to the bodies.