Topic: So I've got a pair of AT4051's

[BrotherRah]

And want to put together a rig with a M-10 or a 661.What would be the best complement to these.Would a little box and m10 be better than the 661,or should I just keep it simple for now and stick with the Marantz.Of coarse w/ different mics the m10 will be easier to stealth which is a big plus too,although ultimately it's all about the sound.Cost is a factor as I've have a kid in college and it's far from cheap,but it would be fun to tape and is another excuse to go to some more shows (together in the summer)as they have been far to few lately.Show's could be just about anything but probably more Bluegrass and Rock or Americana type bands or festivals.Thanks for not busting my balls for a kinda vague and broad question.

[rastasean]

Nice set of mics!!

Well since you already have a recorder, just get a pre-amp. No one here may have the m10 and 4051s (soon I hope to) so we may not know how exactly it will sound but I would try the littlebox out since its less than the price of the m10. You may even be able to get the edirol ua5 pre-amp used for anywhere from $115-$200 and this will allow you to do matrix recordings.
Here's a ua-5 with a mod done to it:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=135170.0
its about the price of the m10.


---
I just re-read the post. you don't have a recorder YET--only the mics.

So when I bought an m10 it was $275 and the littlebox pre-amp can be $210+
I don't think that it can get cheaper than that. Do you already have cables? you'll need xlr to the littlebox and then rca to mini for the littlebox to connect to m10.

[SmokinJoe]

I'll give my same old analogy... some mics and pres go together like peanut butter and jelly... and others don't.  The right combo is pleasing to the ear, and the wrong one isn't.  And it's often not easy to predict.  Guessing which preamp to put with which mics is kind of like saying "I wonder how a peanut butter and mustard sandwich would taste?"  Only one way to find out, and that's to make a sandwich... but with mics and pres, that's a few hundred dollars for a test.  Spend some time listening to a lot of shows on the archive using 4051's and get a feel for how they sound with different preamps.

My gut feeling is that AT4051's are very crisp and transparent.  So is a 661, and when put together it might be lacking in warmth.  I could be completely wrong about this.  Like I said, listen to samples... many samples... not just a couple, and decide what is pleasing to your ear.  There probably aren't a ton of shows with 4051's and 661.  But AT4041's and a 660 might also sound similar.

[BrotherRah]

Yeah Joe thats what I would like to avoid,that lack of warmth.I kinda figured it may have to be the warm mod Oade if I went that rout.The problem is finding the shows with the combo.Thus the search for the right pre amp combo that will impart some warmth while still being usable with a more stealth mic set up.I hate it when someone says the combination is too brite or those mics are too brite but thats what I'm afraid of happening.

[ashevillain]

I've done a good bit of research on this. If you search the LMA for 'AT 4051 chris clark', you will find a lot of examples...he's run them in to a bevy of different preamps...V2, V3, MP-2, Mini Me...maybe more but those are just the ones that I've found by him. I like the Sound Devices MP-2 the best with those mics. There are tons of examples on there by other tapers as well...PS2 > AD20, MV-100, Aerco MP-2, Mini MP...

[BrotherRah]

Yes the mp-2's are nice but are they still available/simulare examples?

[Fried Chicken Boy]

You could probably find the MP-2 used, but its successor is the MixPre.  Not entirely sure what they did to improve it/justify the replacement (if anything) but I've used the MixPre and it's a great little mic pre-amp, albeit considerably more expensive than the Littlebox which gets a lot of love here in this forum (rightly so) and is made by one of the members.  There's a thread HERE discussing a few pre-amp possibilities for an M-10 which might be worth reading.  The 661 is a solid recorder, too.  And SmokinJoe's analogy is great and spot-on! 

Fwiw, you're already off to a good start with the AT4051's: wonderful microphones and sorely underrated.  Been a fan of Audio-Technica mics myself for some time now.

[SmokinJoe]

I was thinking an MP2 might be good with the 4051's, but didn't come right out and say it.  Run that into an R09/M10/whatever other small recorder tickles your fancy.

There is one in the yard sale, guy is asking $375.  I sent him a message asking for pictures, and he never responded.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=134583.0

A Mixpre is the new model which replaced the MP2.  Generally similar.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=135203.0

[BrotherRah]

Anyone have experience with the little box and these mics ,the mixpre is getting up there in coin for my budget with the recorder yet to buy too

[Todd R]

Another option is to get a littlebox and get it configured with transformers.  Output transformers would probably be the best bet I'd guess, but I haven't tried them out yet.  I just sent my littlebox back to get output transformers added to it, so it'll be a while before I have direct experience.  I hear they sound nice though and should warm up the sound a bit.

[Big Perm]

warm mod ua-5.  sounds good, gives the warmth, cheap.  money left over for the deck of ur choice.  M-10 is pretty sweet I hear
a

[Todd R]

Probably not the best to run analog in to a recorder from a UA5, since then you'll have to be going A>D and then D>A within the UA5 since it doesn't have direct analog outputs.  If you choose to go with a UA5, you should probably get the 661 as a recorder so you can go digital in from the UA5 (or get a sony D50 instead of the M10 since the D50 has an optical digital input).

Given that, I'd say:
- used warm mod UA5 + used Sony D50 (digital in)  =  about $550
- new Sony m10 + new Naiant littlebox with transformers  =  about $525
- used Sound Devices mp2/mixpre + new Sony M10  =  about $700
- new Oade warm mod 661  =  about $670

On the cheaper side:
- used warm mod UA5 + either used Microtrack or rockbox'd iRiver H120  =  about $325-350

These seem like a good array of options to look into and think about.  I don't think you can go wrong with any of the more expensive options. On the cheaper ones, read up on all the discussion about the microtrack -- it can be quirky.  The iriver makes for a nice recorder, though it really is a mp3 player and is 16 bits only -- also worth reading up on.

[Big Perm]

my bad, i thought the M10 had a digi input.   
I would ONLY use the ua-5 if you were able to take advantage of the a/d. 
thanks Todd R
a

[bluelawn]

personally i think the 4041's are very similar in sound to the 4051's
while not 4051's, heres my only 4041 > Littlebox > M10 source so far

http://www.archive.org/details/willyp2010-04-20.at4041.flac16

i also ran a P-mod UA-5 behind the AT 4041s for years, tons of tapes on the archive.

[rastasean]

personally i think the 4041's are very similar in sound to the 4051's
while not 4051's, heres my only 4041 > Littlebox > M10 source so far

http://www.archive.org/details/willyp2010-04-20.at4041.flac16

i also ran a P-mod UA-5 behind the AT 4041s for years, tons of tapes on the archive.

Is that right? I have heard a lot of positive things of the 51s but they are that similar to the 41s? I know everyone thinks hears different and all but there don't seem to be that many LMA recordings of 51s on the archive...well actually there are about 130 with the at4051s so I guess I have some listening to do.

[bluelawn]

personally i think the 4041's are very similar in sound to the 4051's
while not 4051's, heres my only 4041 > Littlebox > M10 source so far

http://www.archive.org/details/willyp2010-04-20.at4041.flac16

i also ran a P-mod UA-5 behind the AT 4041s for years, tons of tapes on the archive.

Is that right? I have heard a lot of positive things of the 51s but they are that similar to the 41s? I know everyone thinks hears different and all but there don't seem to be that many LMA recordings of 51s on the archive...well actually there are about 130 with the at4051s so I guess I have some listening to do.

i've never been able to run a proper comp.
however, i taped (w/ my 4041's) a yonder show a few years back that someone else taped with 4051's from the same TS,
tapes sounded very close IMHO even with different stands, pre-amps & configs.
but thats a PA source, closely micing a guitar with both might make me change my mind.

[Todd R]

personally i think the 4041's are very similar in sound to the 4051's
while not 4051's, heres my only 4041 > Littlebox > M10 source so far

http://www.archive.org/details/willyp2010-04-20.at4041.flac16

i also ran a P-mod UA-5 behind the AT 4041s for years, tons of tapes on the archive.

Is that right? I have heard a lot of positive things of the 51s but they are that similar to the 41s? I know everyone thinks hears different and all but there don't seem to be that many LMA recordings of 51s on the archive...well actually there are about 130 with the at4051s so I guess I have some listening to do.

I've never heard any comps, but I used to own the AT4041's and the recordings I've heard of the 4051's seemed like a similar sound to me.  The AT4041's are fixed cards while the AT4051's have removable capsules.  I don't know if they are the same as the Neumann km184 fixed cards vs km140 removable caps line where they are meant to sound identical, but it makes sense that small diaphragm mics in the same line from the same mfg would sound similar.

[BrotherRah]

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone

[ashevillain]

Any suggestions on a case for these mics?

I'd like something not too bulky. The Pelican cases look sturdy but a little bulkier than I hoped for. I may just have to get a Pelican anyway...anyone familiar with the model that will fit these?

Thanks if you can help.

[rastasean]

Any suggestions on a case for these mics?

I'd like something not too bulky. The Pelican cases look sturdy but a little bulkier than I hoped for. I may just have to get a Pelican anyway...anyone familiar with the model that will fit these?

Thanks if you can help.

the case I use with anti-static foam is the pelican 1060.
http://www.pelican.com/cases_detail.php?Case=1060

They call it micro but its quite large.

You may also consider some kind of rubbermade tupperware container since it will probably be less bulky and lighter. a plus is that it will keep the freshness in

[notlance]

Any suggestions on a case for these mics?

I'd like something not too bulky. The Pelican cases look sturdy but a little bulkier than I hoped for. I may just have to get a Pelican anyway...anyone familiar with the model that will fit these?

For low bulk, low weight, and low cost SDC case I've used pencil cases like you can buy from Staples or Office Depot.  Just line the case with that white closed-cell packing foam stuff to keep the mics from rattling around and your good to go.  Those pencil cases are no where near as strong or waterproof as a Pelican, but if you are going to keep the mic case in a bag anyway they work fine.

I do have a couple Pelicans that I use for shipping mics.  The smaller Pelicans will fit into a small USPS Priority Mail fixed-rate box.  It makes for a package sturdy enough to survive even the USPS.

[Neilyboy]

I carry my 4041's around in a cigar caddy

http://www.amazon.com/Cigar-Caddy-3140-2-Cigars/dp/B0007VU67O

search the forum here there was a coupon awhile back that took like 5 or 10 off your first order. that is where i got mine from (i bought the 4 cigar case and also carry my cad e70's in there as well)..

take care
neil

[ashevillain]

I've done a good bit of research on this. If you search the LMA for 'AT 4051 chris clark', you will find a lot of examples...he's run them in to a bevy of different preamps...V2, V3, MP-2, Mini Me...maybe more but those are just the ones that I've found by him. I like the Sound Devices MP-2 the best with those mics. There are tons of examples on there by other tapers as well...PS2 > AD20, MV-100, Aerco MP-2, Mini MP...

After actually running these mics into my MP-2 for a few shows and listening to a ton more examples on the LMA I think I'd like to amend my opinion. My completely unscientific and incomplete rankings for the best match with 4051's goes like this:

1. PSP2 or PSP3
2. V2 or V3
3a. SD MP2
3b. Mini MP or MiniMe

I'm still undecided on where to put the Aerco MP-2 and Beyer MV100 on my list...need to hear more. I've not heard any 4051 > Littlebox examples so I can't comment there. And I've never like the UA-5 sound at all so that is not considered. In addition to the Littlebox I'd really like to hear these mics run with the Audient Mico and Sonosax and direct in to the R44 and DR-680....so whoever wants to lend me all of these things just gimme a shout! (j/k...sorta...)