Topic: help with mic placement in venue (rock concert) (photo given)

[lt-cartman]

Hi all Toolman here need some help / advice

A bit of background to my dilemma

On 13th January 2012 I need to both video (with multi camera) and record audio for a local band I record for. The video is not a problem I have been taping the band for months I just need to get better audio for them. To achieve this i have ordered a sony pcm-m10 and church audio 9100 pre amp and ca-14 cards (with 10 foot custom made cables) - both of these wont be arriving until possible the first week in January at the earliest. Now that does not give me much time to get accustomed to taping with the gear (i will be trying to get into local pubs that week to tape some bands to get use to the gear. I'll be using the line on the m-10 at vol 3-4 and using the 9100 preamp to control the volume (maxing out at -12db) recording in 24bit also.

In the photo (external link due to image dimension size) you can see the venue that i will be taping in. Along with rough dimensions etc

http://bandltimmons.x10.mx/st_marys_tapers_section_diagramme.jpg


I don't know if the venue will be packed on the night so if its not maybe i might be able to setup on the ground floor 35 ft back or so
alternatively maybe setting up on the balcony or over it (don't know if anyone will be there 80% sure no one will be there)

I'm wondering where the best place to tape will be and what setup would be best (din @ 17cm) (din @ 20 cm) etc

I'm also wondering if i am hanging the mic over the balcony should i make sure that the mics clear the bottom of the balcony so as to stop and bounce back off the balcony wall

Anyway thanks in advance for your help. - If you need any further informations please ask.

[acidjack]

I'd say balcony, no question.  DIN.

You can accomplish this, if nothing else, by taping the -14s to a protractor and a ruler... in any event, balcony is always a good spot that avoids crowd noise.

[lt-cartman]

Hi Acidjack thanks for the reply

din 17cm or din 20cm

Also in case there is a crown allowed on the balcony (and crowd noise would be a problem placing it on top of the balcony would you then try to get the mics to hang off, and just below the bottom of the balcony or would just placing them 1.5ft down over the balcony wall (3 ft wall) lead to weird reflection off the balcony wall itself.

thanks for the reply

Toolman

[achalsey]

DIN is always 20 cm @ 90 degrees.

DINa I believe is 17 cm @ 90 degrees.

[StuStu]

DIN is always 20 cm @ 90 degrees.

DINa I believe is 17 cm @ 90 degrees.

You are correct, sir.

[lt-cartman]

Thanks for the clarification on din and din-a

20 cm it is

Any thoughts on The balcony placent options

Thanks

Toolman

[Gutbucket]

In front of balcony wall is good- farthest from the crowd noise from both above above and below.  On a pole sticking out is great if you can rig that. 

I don't know if the venue will be packed on the night so if its not maybe i might be able to setup on the ground floor 35 ft back or so

This has the potential to sound superior because of a much better ratio between the direct sound verses the reverberant room sound at that microphone position.  If I was recording audio there I'd try and do that. The balcony and floor positions indicated in the photo are too far back in the room for great sound and probably echoey and overy reverberant with room sound, but are likely to be a better option if you plan to set things up then leave to run video and aren't going to hang around the stand with a standing audience.  Depends on the audience of course.

[lt-cartman]

Hi Gutbucket thanks for the reply.

Ill wait till the night and bring a load of clamps etc and see what happens crowd wise. Just ordered a 2.8mtr light stand, now all i need is a localish (Ireland/UK supplier) of a 5/8" to either 3/8 or 1/4" adapter for the top of the light stand and I'm set.

thanks again fro the reply

Toolman

[justink]

In front of balcony wall is good- farthest from the crowd noise from both above above and below.  On a pole sticking out is great if you can rig that. 

I don't know if the venue will be packed on the night so if its not maybe i might be able to setup on the ground floor 35 ft back or so

This has the potential to sound superior because of a much better ratio between the direct sound verses the reverberant room sound at that microphone position.  If I was recording audio there I'd try and do that. The balcony and floor positions indicated in the photo are too far back in the room for great sound and probably echoey and overy reverberant with room sound, but are likely to be a better option if you plan to set things up then leave to run video and aren't going to hang around the stand with a standing audience.  Depends on the audience of course.

the bolded was my initial thought as well.

[acidjack]

Hi Acidjack thanks for the reply

din 17cm or din 20cm

Also in case there is a crown allowed on the balcony (and crowd noise would be a problem placing it on top of the balcony would you then try to get the mics to hang off, and just below the bottom of the balcony or would just placing them 1.5ft down over the balcony wall (3 ft wall) lead to weird reflection off the balcony wall itself.

thanks for the reply

Toolman

I don't think that DIN/DINa stuff matters as much as people think, honestly, unless you're doing a very precise studio recording, which you're not.  I usually use DIN if I'm far back FWIW, but unless I'm running a pre-set bar in that pattern I'm not all that religious about being at EXACT measurements. 

When I run from a balcony I run from about knee height - but that's a balcony with open railing.  If the balcony is hard wood, just a foot or so down is probably fine.  Honestly, even just from the rail at waist level is probably fine.  You can use a ruler or something to get you a foot or so out from the actual edge, and that's even better.  Bring lots of gaffer's tape!

[acidjack]

In front of balcony wall is good- farthest from the crowd noise from both above above and below.  On a pole sticking out is great if you can rig that. 

I don't know if the venue will be packed on the night so if its not maybe i might be able to setup on the ground floor 35 ft back or so

This has the potential to sound superior because of a much better ratio between the direct sound verses the reverberant room sound at that microphone position.  If I was recording audio there I'd try and do that. The balcony and floor positions indicated in the photo are too far back in the room for great sound and probably echoey and overy reverberant with room sound, but are likely to be a better option if you plan to set things up then leave to run video and aren't going to hang around the stand with a standing audience.  Depends on the audience of course.

the bolded was my initial thought as well.

Agree that IF you have a stand and IF you can get high enough over the crowd (or if it's not crowded) that's a better choice.  Most shows I tape are sold out/packed so running from the floor in a venue with a balcony is never an option for me, literally ever.

[Gutbucket]

Bring lots of gaffer's tape!

Always! You never know.

[F.O.Bean]

Hypers/PAS

[newplanet7]

Hypers/PAS

Yawn.

 

[F.O.Bean]

Hypers/PAS

Yawn.

 

For real thats what I would do