Topic: The Lowly Dynamic Microphone...

[hexyjones]

So I grab this cassette tape "Starlight 85" and head out to the car...well there is no Jerry on this...its some reggae band...

"Sounds good..." I think to myself..."hmmph...who is this? Sounds like a SBD..."

But then I hear some crowd between songs..."hmmm...audience, not bad..."

So I finally figure out this is "George Wesley and the Iretations" at Penn State...like 1990.

I made this tape with a Sony D5 and pair of Radio Shack Highball Dynamic Mics...Damn does it sound nice!!! Probably some analog compression happening...but to think some shit mics can sound so nice...

So now - I have to try again...

I am a mic whore...so I've put together a set of Realistic "Dual Response" Dynamic Cardioid Mics...I think these are roughly the eqivalent of a Shure SM53...

http://www.shure.com/pdf/discontinued/sm53-54.pdf

Question...am I at risk of too much SPL? I mean - we use 57s for micing guitar amps...so am I safe here?

I know these are no 441s - but I just want to have some fun...I will still be running my "A" rig...

Anyone else still sport Dynamic mics once in while...?

[BC]

Nice, goes to show it doesn't take a ton of pricey equipment to make a nice recording!

I always think it is funny how we use mics that cost thousands of dollars (to say nothing about the price of the  other equipment in the chain!!) to tape a band that is being mic'ed onstage by dynamic mics that cost in the range of $100...

[rocksuitcase]

we've been using a pair of Beyer Dynamic M201-E's for a while now as our "b"rig.
I used to use a different pair of M 201's extensively back in the day ( 82 through 89) with the GD and many other bands.
At the time I owned a live sound company and we used them for tom tom's, violins, flutes etc.
I had a running buddy, T.P. who used a pair of Beyer M88's at that time and we had friends using M-160 ribbon mic's ( the M 160's would always be with in 25 to 30 feet from the stage at al GA shows, and the 201's and 88's about 20 feet behind them)
I remember Jim Wise would run Sennheiser 421's or 441's around that same time.  My crew never bought in to the Nak thing, but later most of us "moved up" to Neumann or AKG.
When I convert those old tapes the lack of analog noise on the .wav files surprised me at first.
Anyway, when we use the M 201's these days through a DMIC 20 or a UA-5 they sound remarkably clean and allow you to ride the levels more than with a condenser.  This is probably due to the sensitivity being around -125 db SPL instead of say -136 or -140 on my AKG 460's.  The M 201's have no bass response below 40 Hz, so they are not as bumping as most of the mics we use today, but the high end with Beyers is "accurate".
I was waiting for an appropriate topic for my first post to this forum.  I joined yesterday because of my taping buddy kindm's.

[Tim]

welcome +T

I love stories from you old schoolers... the history and characters of the GD taping scene interest me to no end, you should see my compendiums!

thanks for sharing...

[bluegrass_brad]

Dynamic mics handle high SPL's really well (except for ribbons, which can be ruptured by really high spl's).  Thus their widespread use mic'ing guitar cabs, drums, etc.  As far as vocal mics go, it is almost impossible to overload a SM58. 

[rocksuitcase]

Thanks for the welcome

I should add that the Beyer M 201's are hyper cardiod.

Funny, I don't mind being called old skool anymore, it's what it is.  In 99 @ a phish show at Great woods MA which they opened with Boston's "MOre than a Feeling/Long time" this guy says, "Hey gramps, what is this song they are playing, is it Little Feat?"  I tell him what the song is and we both laugh long and hard.  I can't blame him, he was about 17 and I was a late 30's dude with white hair!  I've always held the theory that my hair went grey/white very early due to serious body/brain abuse as a youngster! 

[greenone]

Hey Kyle, welcome aboard, good to see ya here. What are you doing up so damn early, old man?

[ts]

Yea, I used M88's in the early 80's and still love the sound of those tapes. Last time I used them and liked them was the fall '84 tour and I had like 14th row dead center seats for most of the tour. Following tours the section was mostly behind the board so I switched to condenser mics and sold my interest in the 88's.
More recently, '02, I used the M201's, which I don't own anymore.  Made a great PLQ at Hershey from real close, light on bass but crystal clear.
ts

[Chuck]

OK, I'll admit to running SM57's at a few Grateful Dead shows in the 1980's.
 

[hexyjones]

OK, I'll admit to running SM57's at a few Grateful Dead shows in the 1980's.
 

...and they sounded like...

[Chuck]

They really weren't bad. Especially if you were up close. There was not much low end if I remember correctly.
I'll have to go back and listen to those recordings now...

[urobouros]

Has anyone ever run 2 card/2 dynamic mix?

[hexyjones]

Has anyone ever run 2 card/2 dynamic mix?

You mean 2 CONDenser / 2 dynamic?

Back in the day, I can remember guys running 441s/421s with NAKS...not sure how they mixed...

[urobouros]

I got a pair of Superlux ECO-88's with my HMK-H8K set.  I was planning on trying to sell them on ebay.  According to these guys (http://www.lentine.com/pa/items/84581.stm) I wouldn't need another phantom power unit (Since mine only has two i/o).  I have a couple of 4 mic mixers and was just wondering if it might be worth my while to keep the ECO's.  I don't have a preamp if that would affect the output with four mics in.

[rocksuitcase]

Hey Kyle, welcome aboard, good to see ya here. What are you doing up so damn early, old man?

I am finding this board very stimulating.  It is making me want to go out and tape more.  I haven't really done many shows lately.

I was up early because I had an early wire running job to do.  Running Ethernet cables, hooking up computers, the day job, ya know.

[pfife]

Hey Kyle, welcome aboard, good to see ya here. What are you doing up so damn early, old man?

I am finding this board very stimulating.  It is making me want to go out and tape more.

Same here.   

[HeliBass]

I've recorded a number of things with a pair of Peavey 520i's. They are a 1" diameter dynamic mic. Give pretty clean sound and handle the highs and lows very well. No phantom power required is a plus occaisionally.

Blessings

Keith

[hexyjones]

So I grab this cassette tape "Starlight 85" and head out to the car...well there is no Jerry on this...its some reggae band...

"Sounds good..." I think to myself..."hmmph...who is this? Sounds like a SBD..."

But then I hear some crowd between songs..."hmmm...audience, not bad..."

So I finally figure out this is "George Wesley and the Iretations" at Penn State...like 1990.

I made this tape with a Sony D5 and pair of Radio Shack Highball Dynamic Mics...Damn does it sound nice!!! Probably some analog compression happening...but to think some shit mics can sound so nice...

Anyone else still sport Dynamic mics once in while...?

http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=10613

George Wesley and the Irietations
9-5-91
State College, PA
Fisher Plaza
H.E.M.P. Tour 91

Source: Realistic Dynamic Cardioids > Sony D5

Transfer: Sony TC-WR570 > Yamaha MG10/2 mixer > Flying Calf A/D > CO2 > JB3

Normalized and fades added in Soundforge 7

Note: Source is the master, or copy made on a high-end deck. I am unsure.

Track Listing

Disc 1

01. Cool Running > Kaya > Cool Running
02. Fire Up The Ganja
03. Legalize It
04. Reggae Jump
05. Freestyle Jam
06. Redemption Song
07. Get Up, Stand Up

Disc 2

01. Dance To Jah Music
02. Rock Me Some More
03. Power of Soul

www.georgewesley.com

=========================================

Daily Collegian article about this event:

http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/1991/09/09-06-91tdc/09-06-91dnews-12.asp

[stlram]

Back in 1984 a group of guys would use 2 421's and 2 CM 300's. In Philly, Spring of 1984 I had 8-15 row center for all 3 nights. I hooked up with this group and gave them a seat to run this system all 3 nights. I think we had around 10 D-5's and 3 D-6's in the chain. I also believe a Yamaha mixer was used. These tapes use to be some of my favorites and compair favorably to the famous FOB Nuemanns.

After the Spring of 84 I bought my own mic's and never plug into this combo again, but needless to say it did make some good tapes. The bass had a very full sound. Keep in mind that I never liked the sound of Nak mics, to me they are edgy sounding, extremely colored with a tendenacy to compress. I really can't listen to a tape made with these mics for more than 2 songs but with the 421's thrown in they struck a nice balance which gave them a more unforced and oragnic sound.

[Tim]

what do you run now? where abouts in st.louis?

[Tye]

So I grab this cassette tape "Starlight 85" and head out to the car...well there is no Jerry on this...its some reggae band...

"Sounds good..." I think to myself..."hmmph...who is this? Sounds like a SBD..."

But then I hear some crowd between songs..."hmmm...audience, not bad..."

So I finally figure out this is "George Wesley and the Iretations" at Penn State...like 1990.

I made this tape with a Sony D5 and pair of Radio Shack Highball Dynamic Mics...Damn does it sound nice!!! Probably some analog compression happening...but to think some shit mics can sound so nice...

So now - I have to try again...

I am a mic whore...so I've put together a set of Realistic "Dual Response" Dynamic Cardioid Mics...I think these are roughly the eqivalent of a Shure SM53...

http://www.shure.com/pdf/discontinued/sm53-54.pdf

Question...am I at risk of too much SPL? I mean - we use 57s for micing guitar amps...so am I safe here?

I know these are no 441s - but I just want to have some fun...I will still be running my "A" rig...

Anyone else still sport Dynamic mics once in while...?

Wow a blast from the past! I have seen George Wesley many times in NE PA. I actually went to school with his daughter.
 I saw him open for Merle Saunders once as well, great show. I'll have to pull out some of my tapes of George W.
 I have heard some old dead tapes done with dynamics and they still sound good to me.

[learning_towalk]

my old "rig" was a 8 track MD recorder with 2 SM58's duck taped to a boom mic stand...lol

not very field friendly (since I needed a power outlet to turn it on) but ya know I actually pulled a few nice sounding tapes with it.

(can't wait till the rest of my new rig gets here!!!)

[stlram]

I don't live in st. Louis but rather follow the Stl Rams. I live in upstate NY. After a short stint of patching into decks from 1982-1984 I bought a pair of mics and mostly ran my own rigs, but due to the lack of funds at time with mixed results. It wasn't until I bought a pair of AKG 460's in 1988 was I able to get continued satisfactory result. In 1989 I purchased my first digital deck, the often troublesome SV250 and then SV255. However when it work it worked extremely well.

Presently I mainly run Schoeps ccm4's>V3>D8. The d8 was a recent purchase as a stop gap towards higher rez, maybe in the next 6 months or so.

I also have a Maranius 442 for mixing SB and or another pair of mics and a pair of AKG 460 that can be used as sopt mics when recording from the stage.

If you are interest in some of those 421/300 mixes I would be glad to send them off to you on CD. Just submit your e addy and I get a hold of you.

[ts]

Back in 1984 a group of guys would use 2 421's and 2 CM 300's. In Philly, Spring of 1984 I had 8-15 row center for all 3 nights. I hooked up with this group and gave them a seat to run this system all 3 nights. I think we had around 10 D-5's and 3 D-6's in the chain. I also believe a Yamaha mixer was used. These tapes use to be some of my favorites and compair favorably to the famous FOB Nuemanns.

After the Spring of 84 I bought my own mic's and never plug into this combo again, but needless to say it did make some good tapes. The bass had a very full sound. Keep in mind that I never liked the sound of Nak mics, to me they are edgy sounding, extremely colored with a tendenacy to compress. I really can't listen to a tape made with these mics for more than 2 songs but with the 421's thrown in they struck a nice balance which gave them a more unforced and oragnic sound.

Do you remember the guys name with the 4 mic rig. Mike, also from upstate NY. He was still running that same rig up until about 2 years ago and still using the same mixer and a D5. He has 480's and a ProII now.

[stlram]

I'm thinking it was two guys from California, Berkley area that were going to school in Boston, or vise-versa. The name escapes me but I'll try to scratch my memory. I think they quickly switched to Schoeps in 1985 and then digital, PCM in 1986 or so. They use to hit many shows.

There was another guy from NJ who started with 4 300 and then switched 421/300 combo with DBX in and around summer of 1984. I met him in Rochester and Niagara Falls/Spring of 1984, where we plugged out of a very nice taper who ran a 3-300 gun/card mix. He liked the naks so much he brought the 2 pairs for the summer/fall of 1984. I remember seeing him at Jerry in New Jersey in 1984 and then much later in Buffalo 1990, where he was then taping with a SV250. I'm not sure what type of mics he was using, though.

[stlram]

Now I remeber his name! His first name was Russ. I never knew his last name but I first met him at SPAC 1983, where we patched into a taper with 421's from the lawn. Boy did those tapes sound awful.

IMO Jim Wise's tapes are the best from that show and beat the pants off the 441's/digital from the balcony.

Anyway, after 1986 I seldom saw him on the east coast but I would run into his taping partner from time to time who said he primarily stayed on the West Coast.

He was a very nice guy. My  second set/second night Spring Philly 1984 did not record one channel. He ran me cassette between nights and had it ready for me the next night. He did have an incentive since I had those excellent seats!

[stlram]

After further thought I remembered his name was Ross not Russ.

[ts]

The MIke I'm speaking of may have been from Jersey originally, but I don't think he had a SV255 back then. He really was using a D5 until just a couple years ago, with the 421/300 combo and some huge mixer. Now he uses his 480's mostly, but still uses the 300's. I think he scraped the 421's.

It was my finally giving in to the OTS that got me on the 300 wagon. Prior to that I was using Beyer M88's and doing FOB. But even before those I was using a shared pair of 300's 7/31/82 thru 7/4/84 all west and midwest. Beyers fall '84 thru spring '85, then the move to OTS thru '91. I made some sick M88 FOB's on the fall '84 tour, but the Oades had that one pretty well covered.

Gave up taping in '91, cause I didn't have the funds to go digital. My rig made the final tour but I didn't . Thank god for the Q, I may have never got into taping again.

[stlram]

TS

I responded to your e-mail. I hope to connect with you and possibly set up a future trade.

Ray