Topic: Best mic config for a boomy hall?

[Unitmonster]

Is there a typically "best" config for a room that's got muddy and boomy sound?  I'm taping wilco tomorrow night, and will be clamped onto a balcony rail with card caps.  Just wondering if I can plan on a pattern ahead of time. Room holds about 1,500 people I guess.

Thanks!

[Gordon]

try xy

[Josh]

i've been advised XY and high for boomy venues.  ymmv.

+t for taping wilco.

[§†∑∫åµÞ≥¥]

hyper caps will help too.

[Tony B]

What these guys said. XY can really cut down on "boom" or undue bass.

[dklein]

People often say that on this site - anyone care to explain?

[Unitmonster]

seems unanimous   

I'll give that a try.  Dklein, I think you've taped at Metropolis in Montreal, any thoughts?  Also while you might be here, where do you buy your taping gear in Canada? I'm going crazy trying to find the simplest shit here (like a t-bar for example). I'm calling the biggest music stores in town (ie. steve's) and they're clueless.

Thanks for the help guys!  I'm going to try politely requesting a sbd patch as I doubt there will be many tapers there, but x/y from the balcony will be option B.  I would love to use hypers as well, but they probably won't be here for another 2 weeks.

Assuming things go ok, I'll seed the show asap.

[audBall]

People often say that on this site - anyone care to explain?

Somebody please clarify but I'm gonna take a shot w/ what makes sense in my own head.  In XY, the mics are coincident (basically taking sound from ONE point in space, roughly), whereas other stereo patterns are taking from TWO points in space, therefore having the ability to sum the amount of bass up from those two points (as opposed to both mics pulling from the coincident spot). 

I've also read many times that OMNIs are more prone to bass pickup.  If my theory above holds true, then think of OMNIs pulling from more of a 'spacial area' than, say, cardioids...therefore, picking up more bass.   

I know nothing though....so don't etch my words in your heads..

[Unitmonster]

here's what I was able to find:

This technique uses two cardioïd microphones whose "sleeves" are arranged in an angle of approximately 90° (the capsules should be the nearest, microphones can be one on the other).

This technique reproduces level differences but not phase differences between right and left (a sound arrives at the same time to the two capsules, which is why it’s called coincident; one will also notice that the guiding principle is not adhered to). It is therefore an intensity stereo, but not a phase one.

Spatialization is a little bit worse than with the ORTF technique, but the stereo picture stays accurate (i.e. there is still a good level difference between L/R).

Mono mixing can be done without risk, as L/R phases are the same.

The angle between the axes of the capsules can vary between 45 and 180°. It is necessary to determine the angle by testing it before the recording, according to the direction of the microphones and the size of the scene (in all meanings).

As a rule, a 90° angle gives the best result, but then the spatial effect is not very pronounced.

I think this is the key.  If you want to avoide the spatial effect (ie. echo of bass off the walls and "wash" from the highs) you want a config that reduces the spatial effect... therefore X/Y.

[BC]

try xy

agreed, XY if running cardioids.

If you have access to hypers they might do well too, try pointing them outside the stacks slightly (DIN or something close like that). FWIW I would not run hypers XY.

[Unitmonster]

Best mic config for a boomy hall?,....

your bass rolloff filter

You know, I've probably taped 15 shows with my new setup so far and have never once used the rolloff.  I don't think i'll try this time, but maybe it's worth some experimentation.

[dklein]

seems unanimous   
I'll give that a try.

I dunno about that 
I can't think of any reason why this would be the case...but it does certainly narrow the image, especially from far away

  Dklein, I think you've taped at Metropolis in Montreal, any thoughts?  Also while you might be here, where do you buy your taping gear in Canada? I'm going crazy trying to find the simplest shit here (like a t-bar for example). I'm calling the biggest music stores in town (ie. steve's) and they're clueless.

Haven't taped anything in Mtl yet.  Mostly Toronto venues.  As far as purchases...I have bought most of my stuff used, from the U.S.  For a t-bar, I don't know but another Ontario taper showed me a great little adjustable bar that he picked up for $15 at some local music store (sorry...he's gone and I don't know where he got it).  Before I got my Shure bar I just made one from parts - doesn't have to be anything fancy.

People often say that on this site - anyone care to explain?

Somebody please clarify but I'm gonna take a shot w/ what makes sense in my own head.  In XY, the mics are coincident (basically taking sound from ONE point in space, roughly), whereas other stereo patterns are taking from TWO points in space, therefore having the ability to sum the amount of bass up from those two points (as opposed to both mics pulling from the coincident spot). 

I follow you here - what you're talking about is phase discrepancies between the 2 locations.  It's just that I would expect the maximum bass when both mics are perfectly in phase (coincident pattern like XY).  When you start spacing them out you could get some phase cancellation effect...which would drop the level.  I suppose we should consider the wavelength of different frequencies to determine which would be affected.  Thinking out loud here...let me get back to you on that!

[dmonterisi]

this is from doug oade's discussion of near-coincident techniques:

The typical spacing of 17 cm to 30 cm is intended to simulate the perceived inter-ear delay time. This fairly small distance results in substantially coincident sound at low frequencies and an increase in interchannel delay and phase characteristics that are natural to the human ear.

so if what he is saying is true, the lower frequencies are substantially coincident leading to no phase cancellation, but the other frequencies are less coincident and thus may have some phase issues and therefore cancellation, resulting in a perceived low-frequency emphasis??