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Author Topic: C4's sound bright? Also DPAs  (Read 8315 times)

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Ray76

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Re: C4's sound bright? Also DPAs
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2005, 05:20:57 AM »
If you have 4061s get within 10 feet of the stage if possible.  Too close and you might miss the vocal throw at some clubs so watch out.  I can't say I have any complaint about the DPAs except that the omni effect can suck it a car :P  The bass is always FAT and CLEAN, even if it sounds like shit in the venue.  Try the jecklin disc also, it works fabulously with those mics, think pinpoint spacial information while listening with phones.  +T to me for fluffing my mics once:D

theres your +T.

youll be -56 at the end of the day anyway, dickface.
 :-*

Offline Evil Taper

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Re: C4's sound bright? Also DPAs
« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2005, 05:46:27 AM »
You know what man, I think that there's a couple of people who -T me every day just cuz they hate me.  I don't know who they are and I don't know why they do it...but they do.  Whatever though.  I try to be helpful to the people here when I can.  I'm evil so being on the negative side of the sprectrum isn't bad, it's good.
Really not very evil at all now...

Ray76

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Re: C4's sound bright? Also DPAs
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2005, 05:58:57 AM »
You know what man, I think that there's a couple of people who -T me every day just cuz they hate me.  I don't know who they are and I don't know why they do it...but they do.  Whatever though.  I try to be helpful to the people here when I can.  I'm evil so being on the negative side of the sprectrum isn't bad, it's good.

it doesnt matter man.
youre alright by me.

Ray

Ray76

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Re: C4's sound bright? Also DPAs
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2005, 09:24:29 AM »
I can't say I have any complaint about the DPAs except that the omni effect can suck it a car

en ingles por favor.


what is the omni effect that can suck it a car?

he said the omnis can suck in a car cuz of the big bass. not a bad thing. thats what i got out of it.
Ray

Ray76

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Re: C4's sound bright? Also DPAs
« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2005, 09:33:37 AM »
I can't say I have any complaint about the DPAs except that the omni effect can suck it a car

en ingles por favor.


what is the omni effect that can suck it a car?

he said the omnis can suck in a car cuz of the big bass. not a bad thing. thats what i got out of it.
Ray

oh. ::)
nevermind.
its just barely past 6am here, and coffee is still in the pot, and its not being slurped yet.

my truck has a cassette deck (and is rarely used), and the radio is usually tuned to KNX Newstalk 710 AM, which doesn't exhibit omni effect.

its all good. nothin like mornin mental fog.

Ray

Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: C4's sound bright? Also DPAs
« Reply #20 on: June 16, 2005, 10:24:04 AM »
Man, I have so many comments here I can't even quote all of you.
First of all, any TRUE mic comparisons need to be made with the same pre/recording rig.

freelunch, I DO understand your specific conditions and agree that any meaningful comparison is always good from a critical point of view.  I have never run either mics, so I will refrain from personal comments on the "tone" or "sound" of either mic.  I do feel that most of the comments to the effect it's hardly fair to compare the DPA's to the CP-4's are accurate.  I think it is generally agreed on that the MME should be "warmer" than a V-2 or V-3.  Let's not even get in to playback system colorations.

configuration and location can also be a definite cause of differing frequency response between two mic set ups.  I would agree from experience that true ORTF should have more bass response than an X-Y.  The X-Y may be more "focused" or "accurate". ( to some ears)

Any discussion of stereo micing techniques has to encompass the reality of our ears all differing in what we "prefer" to hear, so there is always room for discussion and differing preferences in this taping game, that's what makes it fun.

On the topic of the Jecklin disc: ( mini thread hijack)
Moke, please correct or forgive if this has been covered in your main thread.  
The main reason why it is an EXCELLENT way to record with omni capsules is that it brings the capsules physically close together on either side of the disc.  The baffle does it's job to split the signals to left and right and the physical closeness of the capsules brings them "in- phase" from an electro-acoustics point of view.  In the case of the Jecklin disc, "in-phase" means the difference of arrival times at each capsule is only related to left/right spatiality and NOT to large physical distances between the mics. ( just so any one that is not familiar with my use of the term "in-phase" I am not speaking of electrical phase such as speaker wires being "in-phase".  I am using the term in an acoustics sense, where 2 transducers that are aligned in the same plane in space are considered, "in-phase" ) ( mini thread hijack off)

I also see your quote below as a potential reason for thinking the C-4's are "bright" because you are hearing the mid-high bump in frequency response.

"The other big factor pointed out in the team SP thread is that the C4 cards are down about 7.5dB at 50 Hz and probably more at 40. They're also up 2dB on the mid-high."

I have had many car stereos blow bass speakers because of playback of live recordings.!  Most top level recording gear generally provides bass response far greater than the accepted RIAA bass levels that car stereos are designed for

Also what's wrong with a little Evil?  Go Team evil!  +T.

 
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Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: C4's sound bright? Also DPAs
« Reply #21 on: June 16, 2005, 10:55:31 AM »

You are to be banished to the far right corner of the section.
;D


Yes, you are exactly right.
xy is to cardioids, as baffled is to omni's.

The coincident arrival/capture also controls the bass, as the impulse is not extended in time relation as it is in spaced omni's, the microsecond spaced bass double whammy effect is avoided.

edit: fat fingers

He He.  First time I've ever been sent to the right, would be weird for this old lefty to hang there too long! ;D

In my limited esperience with split omni ( late 80's, then again recently with kindms 414's) I hear this "spaced bass" whammy effect.  I think it is one of the things that most tapers like about spaced omni recording.  I also think it is artificial, not an entirely natural representation of the low freq's.  Jecklin disc or any other "coincident" omni seems cleaner, more natural.
music IS love

When you get confused, listen to the music play!

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Recorders:Marantz PMD661 OADE Concert mod; Tascam DR680 MKI x2; Sony PCM-M10

Offline Ed.

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Re: C4's sound bright? Also DPAs
« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2005, 12:10:31 PM »
he said the omnis can suck in a car cuz of the big bass. not a bad thing. thats what i got out of it.

Ah.. I have the same problem with some lousy car stereos (like my truck). Recordings that sound great end up being a bass nightmare. I blame the stereo and not the rec.



i don't think my car stereo is really that bad, but whenever i play live discs in there it sounds like poo.  i think i have made like 3 recordings that sound good in my car.  i've messed with my amps, my eq's, etc, still can't get anything locked in that helps the sound.  so, i've given up and only listen to studio cds in the car.  kind of makes me sad. :(


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Offline nic

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Re: C4's sound bright? Also DPAs
« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2005, 04:01:35 PM »
Ah.. I have the same problem with some lousy car stereos (like my truck).  Recordings that sound great end up being a bass nightmare.  I blame the stereo and not the rec.

vehicle interiors in general exibit a bass bump around 75-125hz.


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Re: C4's sound bright? Also DPAs
« Reply #24 on: June 16, 2005, 05:13:12 PM »
Ah.. I have the same problem with some lousy car stereos (like my truck).  Recordings that sound great end up being a bass nightmare.  I blame the stereo and not the rec.

vehicle interiors in general exibit a bass bump around 75-125hz.

I've found turning down the bass a bit in the car helps out a lot, reduces the load on my crappy stock car speakers and cleans things up quite a bit.
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Offline Tim

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Re: C4's sound bright? Also DPAs
« Reply #25 on: June 16, 2005, 06:14:04 PM »
Ah.. I have the same problem with some lousy car stereos (like my truck).  Recordings that sound great end up being a bass nightmare.  I blame the stereo and not the rec.

vehicle interiors in general exibit a bass bump around 75-125hz.

I've found turning down the bass a bit in the car helps out a lot, reduces the load on my crappy stock car speakers and cleans things up quite a bit.

yep

there is just so much more low end information in one of our tapes than you'll find in any mastered studio disc
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Offline creekfreak

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Re: C4's sound bright? Also DPAs
« Reply #26 on: June 16, 2005, 08:11:53 PM »
one of my John Brown Body recordings took out 2 friends car speakers...I was like...cool ;D
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Offline Evil Taper

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Re: C4's sound bright? Also DPAs
« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2005, 12:51:03 AM »
Wow I guess I should've reread my post there.  I meant to say that omni recordings can suck IN a car.  Why?  Well yeah all that creamy smooth bass that car stereos can't reproduce properly....but what I was more leaning towards was the directional sound information that gets fucked up by having a front and rear left and right speaker, so the louder of the 2 sets of speakers are going to overpower the other ones and attentuate the wrong frequency ranges sometimes.  You put on the headphones and it's gold...in the car it sounds like shit.  There is a solution though...turn the bass down and CRANK IT UP!
Really not very evil at all now...

marc0789

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Re: C4's sound bright? Also DPAs
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2005, 09:39:39 AM »
face it....just about any aud *can* suck in a car. It's a car, for chrissakes. :P

Offline NJFunk

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Re: C4's sound bright? Also DPAs
« Reply #29 on: June 17, 2005, 11:40:03 AM »
I'm evil so being on the negative side of the sprectrum isn't bad, it's good.

LOL. -t.

 

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