Topic: Schoeps beginner?

[it-goes-to-eleven]

The PS2 provides no gain.

I usually run somewhere between 13 and 55 dB of gain with my Schoeps.

[noam]

am i the only one who think shwepz>himd is like having bike tires on a porsche? not hating, just curious.

Maybe on paper, but the HiMD preamp is a porsche. There is a thread about it here and some professor actually took some measures and compared it to the 722 - I did not see any advantage to the 722. There is a link in the thread to sound files and signal waves - Noam

[Brian Skalinder]

I cannot buy a $1200 item that is not covered by a return policy.

Have you contacted Posthorn or Cascade Media to see if they do not allow returns on special orders?  I didn't find anything indicating that's the case on either website.  Might be worth calling to find out.

[Brian Skalinder]

Maybe on paper, but the HiMD preamp is a porsche. There is a thread about it here and some professor actually took some measures and compared it to the 722 - I did not see any advantage to the 722. There is a link in the thread to sound files and signal waves - Noam

This post?  I haven't watched the clip, but FWIW low noise does not necessarily equate to high quality.  In other words, I could have the lowest self-noise preamp in the world, but it still might sound like moose flop.

Edit to add:  I just watched / listened to the MOV and IMO it's absolutely no contest between the 722 and HiMD.  However, if we're talking strictly value (price/performance), then I can understand why one would go for the HiMD.  But in terms of high performance, it's no contest.  Of course, different brains may intepret the comp differently as listened through different ears using different playback systems.

[sygdwm]

am i the only one who think shwepz>himd is like having bike tires on a porsche? not hating, just curious.

Maybe on paper, but the HiMD preamp is a porsche. There is a thread about it here and some professor actually took some measures and compared it to the 722 - I did not see any advantage to the 722. There is a link in the thread to sound files and signal waves - Noam

the 722 supports higher bit depth/sampling rate. that is a clear advantage.

[noam]

I cannot buy a $1200 item that is not covered by a return policy.

Have you contacted Posthorn or Cascade Media to see if they do not allow returns on special orders?  I didn't find anything indicating that's the case on either website.  Might be worth calling to find out.

Thanks, that's an idea; but everyone is away at the AES exhibition in NY right now. Maybe I should go check this exhibition myself - Noam

[noam]

am i the only one who think shwepz>himd is like having bike tires on a porsche?

I've been discussing this with a friend: what other options do I really have for stealthing? The 722 is a solid metal brick, it weighs a ton and may get too hot if worn in a tight brace. - Noam

[Brian Skalinder]

am i the only one who think shwepz>himd is like having bike tires on a porsche? not hating, just curious.

Considering the mics have the biggest impact on the quality of our recordings, and if one has a limited budget (though it can't be too limited, else no Schoeps), I think Schoeps > preamp > HiMD is a reasonable way to go for stealth.  The mics are excellent.  Using a quality preamp for gain will minimize the impact from the HiMD's analog stage.  Then you've got the HiMD ADC recording to 16/44 WAV.  I haven't heard a direct comparison of HiMD ADC v. other portable, stealthable recorders (M1/D100 v. JB3), but even if it's junky - while it may have less detail and soundstaging and such relative to other in-recorder ADCs, it's probably not going to decimate the sound.   And...once more fundss are available (if unhappy with the HiMD ADC), one can always replace it with a better ADC/recorder down the road, e.g. M1/D100, or the MT2496 if it works out.  So, in my mind:  nothing at all wrong with Schoeps > preamp > HiMD for stealth.

I cannot buy a $1200 item that is not covered by a return policy.

Have you contacted Posthorn or Cascade Media to see if they do not allow returns on special orders?  I didn't find anything indicating that's the case on either website.  Might be worth calling to find out.

Thanks, that's an idea; but everyone is away at the AES exhibition in NY right now. Maybe I should go check this exhibition myself - Noam

Do you need the gear *immediately*?  If so, you're in trouble with the /LS2, anyway, since it'll take some time to [1] do the factory mod if they don't have any sitting around, and [2] get it from Europe.  If not, just wait til AES is over.

I've been discussing this with a friend: what other options do I really have for stealthing? The 722 is a solid metal brick, it weighs a ton and may get too hot if worn in a tight brace. - Noam

Rather than hash through every flavor of every potential option, let's go back and start at the beginning:  what's your budget?

[noam]

Rather than hash through every flavor of every potential option, let's go back and start at the beginning:  what's your budget?

My budget is a moving target - as I get seduced by better options, I am willing to shed more $$$. I thought $3200 was my budget. I think I am certain I won't spend $6000 on the SONOSAX  MINIR82, but I will spend in excess of $3200 for a proven and tried perfect solution for stealthing with MK4 capsules -Noam

 

[Brian Skalinder]

My budget is a moving target - as I get seduced by better options, I am willing to shed more $$$. I thought $3200 was my budget. I think I am certain I won't spend $6000 on the SONOSAX  MINIR82, but I will spend in excess of $3200 for a proven and tried perfect solution for stealthing with MK4 capsules -Noam

If you want 100% tried and true, then:

MK4 > custom actives > NBox > M1/D100
MK4 > KCY > SX-M2/LS2 > M1/D100

Or maybe throw a modSBM-1 between the pre and deck, though I don't think it adds *that* much to the sound.

[noam]

 Here is where things stand right now. I want to make the order with Frank from Cascademedia. He spoke with Schoeps at Redding Audio and came up with the following problems: the Schoeps active cables end with a 5 pin Binder miniature plug, and cannot fit into the lemo connection on the Sonosax. Additionally, there is a power problem. They really work on 60V, not 48v - read below:

"1. From what we see, there is no way to get around a custom cable for input
to the LEMOs on the Sonasax.  This is likely to be in the $500 range

2. Even if we do get you this type of cable built, it is going to reduce the
specs of the Schoeps microphones because you will only be supplying 48 volts
and not 60 volts which the capsules require.    You ultimately will lose
sensitivity and will add more noise because you will have to crank up the
Sonasax.   
 ...
Ultimately, however, I think you may want to consider a different preamp. "

Schoeps will send me MK-4 capsules, to see if they fit in croakies, because this is absolutely the only way I can use them (no Hat!). If they fit, I'll see. I alerted Frank to this thread - he feels the MK4 > KCY > SX-M2/LS2 will not work, neither does Scott from Schoeps, but Frank will research it further - Noam

[sygdwm]

i swear Nick Graham and others successfully run this combo, not sure how they are wired. ive never seen it personally.

[Brian Skalinder]

He spoke with Schoeps at Redding Audio and came up with the following problems: the Schoeps active cables end with a 5 pin Binder miniature plug, and cannot fit into the lemo connection on the Sonosax.

This is false.  There are two factory mods offered by Sonosax:

• SX-M2/LS - this mod includes only lemo connectors, and true:  the 5-pin binder mini plug will not fit.
• SX-M2/LS2 - this mod includes the lemo connectors AND a 5-pin binder mini female plug.  It *will* fit the KCY cables, I've used it myself.

.

2. Even if we do get you this type of cable built, it is going to reduce the specs of the Schoeps microphones because you will only be supplying 48 volts and not 60 volts which the capsules require.    You ultimately will lose sensitivity and will add more noise because you will have to crank up the Sonasax.

You should to have a chat with the folks at Sonosax, or Jerry Bruck at Posthorn.  I don't know the specs of the SX-M2/LS2.  I do know that Sonosax replaces the mic body circuitry with components they add inside the SX-M2/LS2.  I bet Redding / Schoeps are unaware of this and are thinking it's merely a connector swap:  XLR for lemo and/or 5-pin binder.  There's more to it than a simple connector swap, as I understand it.  Jerry Bruck at Posthorn's probably the best guy to go to - there's sometimes a language barrier with the folks at Sax, and they're not great about returning phone calls / emails.  But Jerry knows his shit and can sort this out.

I'll see. I alerted Frank to this thread - he feels the MK4 > KCY > SX-M2/LS2 will not work, neither does Scott from Schoeps, but Frank will research it further

It works.  I've used that exact gear combo before.  Now, whether the /LS2 is sending 48v or 60v to the Schoeps caps, I do not know - I never tested for specs when I had my /LS2.  I do know, however, that the combo worked quite well.  I don't feel like I ever had to crank the gain on the Sax- usually ran between 20-30 dB for rock concerts, which is about what I've run for most mic > preamp combos. 

Bottom line:  call Jerry Bruck and/or the folks at Sonosax to sort it out, I suspect the folks at Redding Audio and Schoeps don't have all the information about the /LS and /LS2 factory mods.

Edit to add:  This is one of the reasons I originally went with Jerry Bruck and Posthorn for my purchase, even though his prices were slightly higher - no one else had any clue what I was asking about.

[mmedley.]

First time I've ever heard of Schoeps requiring 60V.

I've used the Sonosax with the 4V's, but not actives. The Sonosax provides ample power to Schoeps via actives or not. Promise.

Brian is right.

[Josephine]

Anyone having a hard time envisioning a Schoeps cap fitting inside a croakie besides me?  I don't think it will work.