Topic: Best electret omni's?

[Javier Cinakowski]

Obviously people love the DPA's around here.  How about the Sen MKE-2's ?  These are 1/3rd of the price.  It seems these are the only options for a "name brand"  stereo omni electret. 

any thoughts? 

[cfbarlow]

I just got the Sony ecm 55b, and there are the 77b, both very high quality and great sounding- Check out B&H Photo for some info on them.  Also the countryman b3's are very detailed-   Sanken makes some nice omni-'s but I havn't worked with them.  Omni's are my fav!

I also have the Sennheiser MKE-2's but they need a 3 wire bat box, of which I do not have, so I only record very quite acustic stuff  in my studio with them, but they do souond great.

[Javier Cinakowski]

The MKE-2s from Microphone Madness terminate into a 3.5mm stereo plug.  No 3-wire box required. 

Looking at the specs from MicMadness it seems as if these mics are suitable for a standard 2 wire box.  I wonder if they do some sort of mod to keep them from overloading the preamp. 

[poorlyconditioned]

The MKE-2s from Microphone Madness terminate into a 3.5mm stereo plug.  No 3-wire box required. 

Looking at the specs from MicMadness it seems as if these mics are suitable for a standard 2 wire box.  I wonder if they do some sort of mod to keep them from overloading the preamp. 

I looked at MM.  Does anyone know what model the Cardioid mics are?  Are they really Sennheiser?  These look similar to the CMC-2A that SoundProfessionals are offering.   (The CMC-2 is AT831, the 2A's are something else.  I want to know what it is!)

OK, there are several versions of the tiny MKE2 omni, both in generations, quality, and wiring.  Quality appear to be: standard, gold, platinum.  Any seems ok for our use.

But for wiring it is a bit more tricky.  For example, the "gold" version that I have is called "Mke2-5-??", and some suffix ?? after that (I forget what though).  Anyway, all of them have three wires (two wires plus a shield).  On some models though, one wire is shorted to the shield *at the capsule*, so this can only operate in two wire mode.  On other models the wires are not shorted, so you can run either 2-wire or 3-wire (by wiring *at the plug*).

The bottom line is ask MM what exact model number they are using.  Get the three wire version if you can.  You can run 2-wire now, and then later on, rip off the miniplug and run three wire.

Oh yeah, the MKE2 sound great!  I have not tried DPA (yet...) but these are certainly good mics.

  Richard

[Javier Cinakowski]

The bottom line is ask MM what exact model number they are using.  Get the three wire version if you can.  You can run 2-wire now, and then later on, rip off the miniplug and run three wire.

I looked at MM.  Does anyone know what model the Cardioid mics are?  Are they really Sennheiser?  These look similar to the CMC-2A that SoundProfessionals are offering.

MicMadness-HLSC1's are the MKE40's.  The CMC-2As do look similar but the specs are a bit different. 

I am very curious if the Microphone Madness mics are 3 wired capsules.  They all terminate into miniplugs.  Ive not expereinced any distortion with the MKE40's (Hi-MD or 9Vpreamp).  I assume the omni mics are more sensitive and would benefit more from the 3 wire.  I also assume though that the MM 2 wire mke2's could be pluged into Church's ST9000 preamp without distortion.  Am I wrong?  Is 3 wire nessesary with all mics?  Is there a sensitivity spec that could be used to determine if a mic would require the 3 wire.  Taping is a never ending learning expereince.     FWIW I think the MKE40's sound great for the price.   

[poorlyconditioned]

+T to the detectives...

As far as three wire goes, I don't think it is really necessary.  It will probably sound better, but I don't know by how much.  I have not done a side-by-side comparison, though I now have lots of gear to do so

Maybe I'll do that at the same time I run the Church Audio mics, ie., AT853 (2-wire) vs AT853 (3-wire) vs. Church Cards (2-wire).  Depends on beer consumption that night I guess...

  Richard.

[Javier Cinakowski]

Microphone Madness is supposedly a "Sennheiser Authorized Dealer"  The are getting MKE40s.  The whole thing is metal.  They claim the specs are 30-20,000 and 138SPL(with 3v PIP) 

[Javier Cinakowski]

T+'s   

[china_rider]

I just thought I would throw in my .02 and echo what Chris mentioned.  I love my Sonic Studios DSMs.  Small, sound great, durable, and even water resistant (did not really believe it until I recorded a Santana show while a monsoon hit).  After I got my first pair I never even considered going to another brand.  They are even stealthy enough that for quite a few shows I attach them to a pair of glasses and leave the glasses hanging around my neck as I go through security.  They have never been noticed.

 

[poorlyconditioned]

I just thought I would throw in my .02 and echo what Chris mentioned.  I love my Sonic Studios DSMs.  Small, sound great, durable, and even water resistant (did not really believe it until I recorded a Santana show while a monsoon hit).  After I got my first pair I never even considered going to another brand.  They are even stealthy enough that for quite a few shows I attach them to a pair of glasses and leave the glasses hanging around my neck as I go through security.  They have never been noticed.

 

How much are those things, anyway?  I got the idea they were quite expensive, at least for something I did not know the contents of.

  Richard

[china_rider]

I just thought I would throw in my .02 and echo what Chris mentioned.  I love my Sonic Studios DSMs.  Small, sound great, durable, and even water resistant (did not really believe it until I recorded a Santana show while a monsoon hit).  After I got my first pair I never even considered going to another brand.  They are even stealthy enough that for quite a few shows I attach them to a pair of glasses and leave the glasses hanging around my neck as I go through security.  They have never been noticed.

 

How much are those things, anyway?  I got the idea they were quite expensive, at least for something I did not know the contents of.

Have not looked in a while but I believe the 6SMs are ~$450 for a pair.  The other models are more.  If you talk to guysonic you can probably get a discount on a pair that is not exactly matched.  Thats what I did but when I look at my recordings the pair matches up really well.  When I was first looking for stealth gear I thought Sonic Studios was a bit out of my price range but after working with guysonic I picked up some gear and now years later I could not be happier with the purchase.  I've not thought about upgarding since.

I hate to sound like a fanboy but I really have no complaints with the gear or the service.  Don't let the www site throw you off.

EDIT: If you want to hear some samples most recordings available from last years Joshua Tree Music Fest came from my DSM6SMs... Check out Papa Mali, Zilla, Tim Easton, Mojo and the vibration army, or the 6+ hour Hamsa Lila midnight set. :-}

[Javier Cinakowski]

Sonic Studios mics seem like they would be great if worn on the head/glasses.  How would they sound split (w/ no baffle)      Sometimes I do not want to be a human mic stand/baffle. 

[jcrab66]

They are even stealthy enough that for quite a few shows I attach them to a pair of glasses and leave the glasses hanging around my neck as I go through security.  They have never been noticed.

 

nice, that sounds like what I did with them at coachella this year 

[BobW]

Someone should probably rep the AT943E/S in this thread.
They are inexpensive, and a bit bigger than the DPAs.
They have a 3db rise at about 8k - 15k  that sounds like female sibilance to me.
If you have a fast and present A/D or Pre, you may find yourself flattening it in post.

Aside from that small response blip, they are amazing performers.
If an occasional very high  "swsss" doesn't bother you, you needn't do anything, or if your A/D or Pre is warm
you'd probably be fine as is.  I have the cards and hypers for my low-pro setup.

Like I said, amazing performers, great value, however the DPAs would take my vote for best that I've heard.
The limit to me was the availability as omni-only.
I have not heard the Senns. although they have been around in various models for years.

Looking around for them, the first link that I found has them for $125 each:
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/vid2001/mke40.html     
I know that there are more than a few late 90s phish shows out there with MKE40s into a D8 to be found.

[china_rider]

Sonic Studios mics seem like they would be great if worn on the head/glasses.  How would they sound split (w/ no baffle)      Sometimes I do not want to be a human mic stand/baffle. 

I've never run them with no baffle... If I'm I'm using a stand I typically use my 480s, however, it would not be hard to rig a nerf ball or some other baffle to put on top of a stand.  I did make my own once... worked pretty well.  Got a styrophome head and put a pantyhose leg over it.  Then stuffed the area around the head with cotton balls.

[Javier Cinakowski]

Yeah, the nerf ball idea is something i have thought of, BUT, I would also like to do wide split omni recordings.  Such as a 4'-8' split.  Or, I would like to simply just clip them on a Tbar. Or hide them in a hat for stealth.  I am looking for the best Omni directional microphones for use with my Church Audio ST-9000 preamp.  So it has to have a 3.5mm-1/8" mini plug termination and be non-sensitive enough not to overload the preamp.  It is looking like the Senn-MKE2's and the DPA's are the only options at this point.  I wish someone knew more about the Senn-MKE2's by microphone madness.  I wonder if they sound any better then my mke40's.  I am assuming they do simply becasue of the fact they are omni, but i just don't know.  I would love to hear a AB compairison with the mke2's and the DPA's.

I have also been looking at single point omni's, but I will not buy a sony mic and they are not that many PIP mics out there.  Oh well, as of now I am almost ready to pull the trigger on the mke2's from Mic Madness.  nobody knew anything about the mic madness mke40's when I bought them.  they turned out to be a great purchase, maybe the mke2's will be the same. 

I would buy Church Audio's omni's but I am looking for something from a major microphone manufacturer.  That might sound wierd, but I do have a taping ego to uphold here. 

 

[Jimna]

http://www.sennheiserusa.com/newsite/pdfs/mke2pc.pdf

here is the technical specs for the mke2.  says its a xlr3 pin w/ phantom power.  i bet you would be happy with them.

+t on the thread

[Javier Cinakowski]

Here is my conversation with the microphone madness people.  They responded quickly.  I also read through some other threads and it seems that these mke2's by MM are very good. 


Hi windorabug,
 
To be honest, we have never done a side by side comparison with any DPA microphones.  They are very good microphones but as you know they are very expensive.  The MKE-2's(which we build) are excellent performers and are well under priced in the field, they are by far the best omni we offer!
The MKE-2's straight from Sennheiser come with the XLR connector(which is a phantom power converter) and are wired slightly different for that setup. We set them up to interact with any bias power device as well as any one of our batter/filter modules.
Omni and uni-directional microphones are totally different animals and cannot be compared in the same category. 
 
Hope this helps,
Mike
www.microphonemadness.com
- Hide quoted text -


Javier Cinakowski <windorabug@gmail.com> wrote:
Howdy,

I purchased a pair of your hlsc-1s and have been very happy with them.
I am in the market for a pair of Omni's now and had some questions
about your mke2's.

The MKE2s sold by Sennheiser are 12-48v phantom powered and terminate
in a 3-pin xlr. How do you get these capsules to perform so well
using a two wire 3.5mm plug and Plug-In-Power? Do you do a mod to
them so they can handle higher SPL's? I am assuming these mke2's will
outperform the mke40's simply because they are Omni? Do these
microphones compare to the DPA-406X microphones? I am very interested
in these mke2's because they seem like the best mini-microphone that
terminates to a 3.5 plug and can be powered via 9v plug-in-power. The
DPA's are the only other option, but are 3 times the price.

I know your opinion about these microphones might be biased, but I
would appreciate you comments in a response.

Thanks,

windorabug
Team Johnstown/Pittsburgh

[Jimna]

Nice!  so what are you gonna do?

[Chuck]

I bought some Panasonic (off the top of my head... I remember wma-063?? maybe) capsules about ten years ago and finally want to make some stealth microphones with them soon. When I get the proper part #'s, I'll be looking for some circuit ideas.

[Chuck]

That's weird. I'm sure that is the exact circuit I saw when I bought the capsules for a project so long ago. Small world I guess...
Is this still the best circuit for this type of capsule? I'm sure I have Panasonic elements. I'm not sure about the part #. They could very well be the 60AT's noted on the drawing. I'll be check when I get home from work.

Thanks & +T Chris.

[Chuck]

I'm sure I'm going to want to put a casing of some sort around the capsules so I can at the very least minimize noise, but also so I can put wind screens on them too. If I remember right, since you are soldering onto the mic element itself, there may be some scapped capsules due to heat etc... Any tips on doing any part of this would be appreciated.

[poorlyconditioned]

I'm sure I'm going to want to put a casing of some sort around the capsules so I can at the very least minimize noise, but also so I can put wind screens on them too. If I remember right, since you are soldering onto the mic element itself, there may be some scapped capsules due to heat etc... Any tips on doing any part of this would be appreciated.

Here is the "trick", coutesy of some people on the Yahoo "micbuilders" group.

- use "copper wick" to remove solder from the negative terminal.
- use an exacto knife to scrape/cut the copper pad in half.  You should cut so that the transistor/FET lead from inside the capsule is
    on one side of the cut, and the connection from the pad to the case/ground is on the other side
- now you have three terminals to solder to and you can either run 3-wire, or using the 2-wire Linkwitz method

Enjoy.  Expect to sacrifice a few capsules.  Also expect a few cuts/burns and associated curses during the process...

  Richard

[Chuck]

It turns out that I have (4) WM-60AT capsules. Hopefully I'll be able to get two working mics from these.
Is there any advantage in using the 3 wire set-up vs the two wire? Does one sound or work better?

http://www.linkwitzlab.com/images/graphics/microph1.gif

That conductive epoxy sounds weird. What if I wrapped some aluminum foil around the elements and just shrink wrapped them with permanent cables? 

[poorlyconditioned]

It turns out that I have (4) WM-60AT capsules. Hopefully I'll be able to get two working mics from these.
Is there any advantage in using the 3 wire set-up vs the two wire? Does one sound or work better?

http://www.linkwitzlab.com/images/graphics/microph1.gif

That conductive epoxy sounds weird. What if I wrapped some aluminum foil around the elements and just shrink wrapped them with permanent cables? 

Two wire (Linkwitz) and three-wire are equivalent in sound quality.  Both are much better than standard two-wire.

I don't think aluminum foil will work for contact to the capsule body.  Read my above post about removing the solder from the ground tab and slicing it in two.  This works quite well.  After soldering, encase the back in epoxy to make it solid and prevent any leaks out the back.  After that, go ahead and encase in pipe or just heat shrink the thing.

Now, all said and done, I only recommend this to hard core gear hackers.  This requires both electrical and mechanical skill.  And best to visit the Yahoo "micbuilders" group for some "group therapy" too.  Otherwise just get some Church Audio or AT853 mics.

  Richard

[Javier Cinakowski]

good luck with the microphone building project.


I think I am going to buy the mke2's from MM.  I am going to go grocery shopping first and try to get everything I need and still have the $250+ for the mics.  It will be close.  Next pay I am going to pick up some rycote mini-windjammers for the mke2s/40s.   I gave the dead rat DIY a try but found it was hard as hell for the small mics. Too small to sew the elastic and fur together.   

 I found a sweet mini-daypack at Wal-Mart last night.  It fits my gear perfectly.  It has an empty pocket waiting for some omni's   

[corsair]

I'm just about to kill the people at MM, for a faulty left capsule....

[Javier Cinakowski]

I'm just about to kill the people at MM, for a faulty left capsule....

what is wrong with the capsule?  Send it back!!

[corsair]

From my recordings, the left capsule is on the average consistently 3 dB louder than the right capsule..

Shit hits the fan 2 weeks ago, while taping Simple minds, left of board, about 20 metres from stack.
The left channel hits occassional distortion from the low notes...while the right channel remains mint..shame.

these Mics are 3 wires...but I really wonder will 3 wire powering be a big improvement... My buddy opened
up the housing, and saw the 3rd wire soldered onto the housing of the miniplug..

[Javier Cinakowski]

Im not sure how they match their capsules , but I did some testing on mine last night and they are extreamly well matched.  I cannot get any readings that show any difference in the capsules. 

That being said, I just bought the mke2's from MM and a pair of Rycote mini-windjammers from B and H.   


Woo Hoo!!!

[hyperplane]

I'm just about to kill the people at MM, for a faulty left capsule....

QFT.


you and me both, buddy. MM is close to losing a potential $235 purchase if they don't do the right thing and repair the mics pronto and refund that bogus shipping charge...

[Javier Cinakowski]

I used the MM mke2's this weekend.  WOW, what a great pair of mics.  I recorded an acoustic duo (Herb & Hanson) outside of a coffee house and a rock/jam/techno band (the borderless puzzle).  Both of the recordings smoke. 

[Jimna]

cool!  glad your purchase was a well made one.  looking forward to hearing some tapes mike!!

[Will_S]

I'm thinking about the MM-MKE2 mics and would love to hear samples as well if possible.  How did you power them?  I'm especially interested in how well these would work run on the 2.5V Plug in Power of an iRiver in extreme stealth situations.

[Javier Cinakowski]

I power the mke2's with Church Audio's stc9000 preamp.  I have used the mke40's with the plug in power on my Hi-MD with no problems.  The mke40's are rated to handle 8dB more of SPL though.  I will have audio samples in a week or so.

[anechoic]

anyone have an opinion about the Reactive Sounds Auris strereo mic?
http://reactivesounds.com/am2.php

they use the Panasonic WM61 omni caps and are pip

I've been using them for a couple of months now for location recording with good results...