Topic: AKG 460 Capsules & Accessories

[datbrad]

^ sounds like a great deal to me. 

Maybe you justed liked the warm/fuzzy of the Nak guns better?  I think the AKGs are less colored sounding to my ears than the Nak guns.  I agree the CK63s hypers are almost always a better choice than short shotguns, unless you're really stuck in the back of a large venue.  For those situations, however, the ck8 capsules excell IMO.

I think it was the mix of the CP4s and CP1/CP2 center through the MX100 that made the Nak guns sound so nice to me. The CK8s just did not sound as fat or something. Anyway, since I never tape shows from the back of very large venues anymore, I really don't miss having guns and the CK63 caps have done the job well for me in most of the back-of-room situations where cards don't cut it.

[bremusound]

Just found this on the akg achives.  The ck62-DF http://www.akg.com/mediendatenbank2/pspic/hires/6/CK_62_DF4055d398e7299.gif

To bad I don't read german  .  Anyone ever hear of this cap?

The CK62DF was a diffuse field version of the CK62 omni, with HF rise for distant miking. Discontinued and very hard to find.

[DSatz]

bremusound, the German text says:

Individual component.

• Condenser capsule with an omnidirectional characteristic, but a specially modified frequency response
• Typical deployment in the diffuse sound field beyond the reverberation radius, where predominantly reflected sound reaches the microphone

The rest (specifications, etc.) should be reasonably obvious. It says that this capsule is only for use with the C 460 B amplifier.

--The diagram in the lower right corner is extremely interesting--it shows the directivity of the capsule at different frequencies. You can see that this capsule is truly omnidirectional at low and mid frequencies until 1 - 2 kHz, where the directivity begins to rise. It increases sharply and continuously from there all the way to the top. That's typical of a pressure transducer of this size.

I wish that this kind of diagram could be published for all types of microphones--I think people would learn a lot from it. Many people seem to be confused by polar diagrams, but this type of diagram boils much of the essential information of a polar diagram down to a single axis of measurement.

Optional quiz questions for anyone who wants to try answering them:

1. If this capsule were proportionally smaller by half, what would you expect the diagram to show?

2. What would the diagram show for a typical large-diaphragm, dual-diaphragm cardioid?

3. Will I ever learn to type the words "diagram" and "diaphragm" in the same sentence without stumbling?

--best regards

[SmokinJoe]

Optional quiz questions for anyone who wants to try answering them:

1. If this capsule were proportionally smaller by half, what would you expect the diagram to show?

2. What would the diagram show for a typical large-diaphragm, dual-diaphragm cardioid?

3. Will I ever learn to type the words "diagram" and "diaphragm" in the same sentence without stumbling?

I'll bite.
1) Normally a small omni cap is pretty evenly omni, and less susseptable to that directionality.
2) Normally the LD becomes somewhat figure-8ish at high frequencies
3) Only if I learn to spell susseptable.

It's my understanding that high frequencies die off as you get further from the source, so if you want to run split omnis from the section, this "presence enhanced" cap might seem a logical choice.  If you were recording an unamplified orchestra, that might be true, but if it's an amplified rock concerted I believe the sound guy compensates for that, so you want the flat response cap for an accurate representation.

[DSatz]

SmokinJoe, congratulations on your bravery, and your answers are in the right direction generally.

1) Yes. The increase in directivity would begin one octave higher--thus it wouldn't have nearly as strong an audible effect since the higher up you go above the midrange, the less sound energy there is to pick up, generally speaking.

2) With all large-diaphragm capsules there is a narrowing of the pattern at high frequencies, but the reason I specifically said "dual-diaphragm" and "cardioid" was because at low frequencies, that type of microphone loses directivity--the pattern broadens out toward "wide cardioid." So the line in the graph would dip down toward the bottom and rise at the top.

By the way, that's probably how the rumor got started that large-diaphragm microphones have better bass response: because most large-diaphragm microphones use dual-diaphragm construction (for example AKG, Neumann and their countless imitators). Since the microphone no longer has much directivity at low frequencies, it's less discriminating in what it picks up from the room "down there."

3) I'm with you there completely.

--best regards

P.S.: The high-frequency response of an omni mike doesn't decrease as you get further from the source, but in a normal music performance environment, high frequencies are absorbed more than lower frequencies as the sound bounces off various room surfaces, furniture, and people. As a result, the farther back your mikes are, and the more sensitive they are to sound arriving from all directions, the more likely it is that the sound energy itself will have a high-frequency rolloff on average. If the mikes are well beyond the "reverberation radius" then much of the sound energy they pick up will be diffuse in character and will have undergone numerous "bounces" along the way--generally losing some of its high frequency energy each time.

So that's why omni microphones for very distant pickup have elevated response on axis and basically flat response off-axis, but don't sound as if they have a peaky treble if they're really being used at a suitable distance in a suitable recording environment.

[SmokinJoe]

On 2) I missed the cardioid part, I was thinking LD diaphragm omnis and how they figure 8.

On the latter, you speak more accurately than I, the high freq energy doesn't roll off, but rather tends to get absorbed.

[newplanet7]

ck 63 or ck3?
Has anyone compared the two?

[tgakidis]

ck 63 or ck3?
Has anyone compared the two?

Pm easyjim, he runs ck3's with his 460's & 452's

Your getting 460's, but most folks would say the ck63 are best with the 480's & 460's

[easy jim]

^ I think the ck3 tends to roll off more low end, and also has the ck_ vintage sound vs. the ck6_ uls sound.  For all around PA taping, especially electric music, I like the ck63 better; but, I think the ck3 is nicer sounding for acoustic music and it also tends to cut out more boom in crappy sounding rooms.

Edit to add: I also have really come to like using the ck3 caps for the main pair when I run a 3mic rig with a center omni.  It gets the best sounding all around frequency response IMO once you add the center omni for the natural low end

[newplanet7]

Thanks fellas!

[tgakidis]

Ever see this cap?  The plain ones with vents on the top are a ck2's, the one with the red band has a solid top and vented sides.  The gentle man told me it say ck2 on the inner ring.

[easy jim]

^ I believe TNJazz posted somewhere, maybe in a for sale thread, that the side-vent style is the oldest form of the ck2.  AKG made them with the grill on top for a quite a while after that before discontinuing the ck2 and making the ck22 (also side-vented, but a longer capsule).

[tgakidis]

^ I believe TNJazz posted somewhere, maybe in a for sale thread, that the side-vent style is the oldest form of the ck2.  AKG made them with the grill on top for a quite a while after that before discontinuing the ck2 and making the ck22 (also side-vented, but a longer capsule).

Found it, http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,108462.msg1447393.html#msg1447393

Thanks James

[tbrown4]

Checking in here too..

[Mike D (VT)]

I'm a proud new owner of some 460s- but I need to get some shock mounts (I'm leaning towards Busman's) and windscreens (thinny minis and high wind advisory ones). What do ya'll run for these accessories? Thanks!