Topic: spaced cards...

[BWolf]

thinking about splitting some cards from the loge for mule at the beacon one night.  anyone have any experience?  tips or tricks?

[stirinthesauce]

thinking about splitting some cards from the loge for mule at the beacon one night.  anyone have any experience?  tips or tricks?

Buy some 43's and split those 

Only tip I can give on splitting cards is point and shoot.  Never been to the beacon so I don't know if this is a good or bad idea, BUT, no better way than try.    I'm sure other tapers will be there so in case you blow it.  In  fact, this is the kinda of situations where I like to try new patterns/caps/techniques.  Go for it!   

[Chuck]

I have done this. My experience is that it would be best to keep the split around two to four feet. I split cardiods a few times and to my ears, it sounded best with that spread. I ran a 30 foot split at Cal Expo for the Grateful Dead one time, because the SBD area effectively blocked the center position. So I ran one mic on one side of the borad and another on the other side of the board. 30 feet in that application was way too much. Let us know what you do decide on, and report back how you think it sounded.

[BWolf]

yeah, i was thinking 3-5 feet split...

what about the position of them.  straight at the stage (in parallel) or pointed at the stacks?

[Chuck]

I've pointed them at the outside of the stacks.

[BWolf]

bump.

anyone have any experiences with this?

[thegreatgumbino]

This show was recorded with 4022's, but they were split 24' and it sounds great, IMO.  I say go for it, Brad.

http://www.archive.org/details/dbt2005-03-02-dpa4023.flac16

[Chanher]

and, yes, absolutely try it!

yeah document the details of your technique, then report here with samples!

[Brian Skalinder]

This show was recorded with 4022's, but they were split 24' and it sounds great, IMO.  I say go for it, Brad.

http://www.archive.org/details/dbt2005-03-02-dpa4023.flac16

Just wanted to point out this is a split card stack recording, not split cards from an ambient audience location:

mics split 24' and hung from each side of the balcony
aprroxiamately 4' from each stack all FOB

[thegreatgumbino]

This show was recorded with 4022's, but they were split 24' and it sounds great, IMO.  I say go for it, Brad.

http://www.archive.org/details/dbt2005-03-02-dpa4023.flac16

Just wanted to point out this is a split card stack recording, not split cards from an ambient audience location:

mics split 24' and hung from each side of the balcony
aprroxiamately 4' from each stack all FOB

Doh!  Good catch, Brian.  +T

I remember reading that as well, but spaced when I posted obviously.

[Todd R]

I haven't done it for awhile, but I made some nice split card recordings.  I always split the mics about 3', don't think I'd go for much more spacing than that as 3' gave a plenty spacious and defined soundstage.  I ran split cards in places that would've been bad for cards in a typical DIN or ORTF pattern, like under the balcony at the Landmark in Richmond or at the back of DAR Constitution hall in DC.

I found it to be an excellent way of getting good recordings with good soundstage definition while helping eliminating room reverb, etc from bad sounding rooms/taping locations.

I haven't done any A-B card recordings in a few years since I've had hypers at my disposal, but now that I'm back to just cards and omnis, I might try it again.

Anyone have any experience with 4ch mic mixes with a center XY (or DIN) pair of cards mixed with a pair of A-B cards?  I've tried that just once with my new Milab VM44 Links XY in the center and SP C4 cards split 3'.  Came out good -- I liked that 4ch mix more than the straight XY card 2ch recording I made that night.

[scb]

Scott Brown mentioned a recording from the balcony of the Beacon (?) with 4022's spaced at the balcony lip, straight-forward. The results were supposed to be very impressive.
hearsay, but you might ping him about it.

i've run split at the Bowery Ballroom in NYC.  i did it for the 2-2-05 Warren Haynes and Friend's show and i think it sounds pretty nice

[kskreider]

I think that Paul tried to run split cards some at Rockygrass this year.  I think that his handle here is paulrennix.  Shoot him a PM and see if he'll float you a couple of samples.

[Krispy D]

i've run split at the Bowery Ballroom in NYC.  i did it for the 2-2-05 Warren Haynes and Friend's show and i think it sounds pretty nice

split as in one on each side of the balcony area that juts forward from the sound board?!  that's a huge split!  did you set up on one side or the other or in the middle?  how much mic cable can you get away with before you run into a delay in signal?  sorry for all the ?'s that just put a picture in my head...

[scb]

i've run split at the Bowery Ballroom in NYC.  i did it for the 2-2-05 Warren Haynes and Friend's show and i think it sounds pretty nice

split as in one on each side of the balcony area that juts forward from the sound board?!  that's a huge split!  did you set up on one side or the other or in the middle?  how much mic cable can you get away with before you run into a delay in signal?  sorry for all the ?'s that just put a picture in my head...

i had one microphone on each side of the board (clamped to the first vertical iron bar on the outside left and outside right of the board).  i actually ran the cables around the side to my gear in the middle behind the board.  so the pre/ad/laptop were center behind the board.  i got away with 17 feet of cable, though it barely made it

at least i think that's how i did it.  i might have actually run the bag with pre/ad on the right side and just run a really long firewire cable to my laptop in the back of the board.  i know that's what i did for warren solo in june of that year

[Chanher]

When I first got into the business I used to run a-b cards about a foot apart because I didn't know any better.

They sounded good, but I remember the recordings almost always sounded better through headphones than monitors.

[flipp]

I once tried splitting a set of cards at a local theater. They were on the balcony rail split about 35'. Ran them in parallel which put them pointing directly at the flying stacks. Used a Nak MX100 and ran an omni as the center blend channel. Small portions of the tape were as good as any I've ever recorded. Unfortunately the promoter's wife and two sisters-in-law had the seats directly behind the omni and their chatter ruins the portions of the show when more than one of them were sitting there.

[Colin Liston]

I ran split 4023's for the Truckers once.  Split was about 24'.  The show is up at LMA

http://www.archive.org/details/dbt2005-03-02-dpa4023.flac16

[Brian Skalinder]

I ran split 4023's for the Truckers once.  Split was about 24'.  The show is up at LMA

http://www.archive.org/details/dbt2005-03-02-dpa4023.flac16

This show was recorded with 4022's, but they were split 24' and it sounds great, IMO.  I say go for it, Brad.

http://www.archive.org/details/dbt2005-03-02-dpa4023.flac16

Just wanted to point out this is a split card stack recording, not split cards from an ambient audience location:

mics split 24' and hung from each side of the balcony
aprroxiamately 4' from each stack all FOB

[Kyle]

I have done this. My experience is that it would be best to keep the split around two to four feet. I split cardiods a few times and to my ears, it sounded best with that spread. I ran a 30 foot split at Cal Expo for the Grateful Dead one time, because the SBD area effectively blocked the center position. So I ran one mic on one side of the borad and another on the other side of the board. 30 feet in that application was way too much. Let us know what you do decide on, and report back how you think it sounded.

Tried the same thing at Expo, but with shotguns.     Listenable, but very mono and a bit phasey (sp?). Tons of fun as always!

go for it!!

[BWolf]

Well, I didn't run space cards because people wouldn't give me clamp space.  It was like these guys missed the lesson about sharing in pre-school.  I got one person to allow me to clamp, but nobody else was going to let me.  Don't know why, but whatever.  I guess I'll try it sometime eventually....

[stirinthesauce]

Well, I didn't run space cards because people wouldn't give me clamp space.  It was like these guys missed the lesson about sharing in pre-school.  I got one person to allow me to clamp, but nobody else was going to let me.  Don't know why, but whatever.  I guess I'll try it sometime eventually....

Your kidding, right?  Denied clamp space for a single mic?   What was their reasoning or were they just complete asshats?

[Chuck]

Yeah, who would say ,"NO!" to one clamp?

[dhora]

A little late, but when I first started out 2 years ago, I was running cards AB at about 23".  Here's my personal favorite of my recordings with that setup. 

moe. Live at The Catalyst on 2005-04-14 (April 14, 2005)
Source: SP-CMC-2 (AT831) > SP-SPSB-1 (Roll Off at 107Hz) > JB3 (+5db Set 1|+4db Set 2)
Lineage: JB3 > USB > Cool Edit Pro 2.0 > CD Wave > FLAC frontend > flac16
Location: Stand ~9'High > 23" AB Stereo > Left of Board

The board was on the right side of a long narrow venue, so the mics were slightly right of center ~50' back.

http://www.archive.org/details/moe2005-04-14.at831.flac16

[Colin Liston]

I ran split 4023's for the Truckers once.  Split was about 24'.  The show is up at LMA

http://www.archive.org/details/dbt2005-03-02-dpa4023.flac16

This show was recorded with 4022's, but they were split 24' and it sounds great, IMO.  I say go for it, Brad.

http://www.archive.org/details/dbt2005-03-02-dpa4023.flac16

Just wanted to point out this is a split card stack recording, not split cards from an ambient audience location:

mics split 24' and hung from each side of the balcony
aprroxiamately 4' from each stack all FOB

Oops....sorry.   

[poorlyconditioned]

I've run split cards in a rather difficult room.
Two cards, pointing straight ahead, split 12', 10' back from the speakers, hanging 2' down from a 10' high ceiling.
The speakers point straight ahead (no vergence, so it is hard to find a single good spot for DIN/ORTF or whatever that is in the "image" of both speakers.).
I then mixed soundboard in with the two channels.

An elaborate setup, but the only way to get great sound in this room.

  Richard

[rowjimmy]

At a recent show that I attended, a fellow was there with his stealthy cards (not sure the brand but they were tiny) attached to a 3-4 foot horizontal boom and split at least two feet across that.

Then; "to avoid chatter," he said; he then proceeded to elevate the boom to approx. 10 - 12 feet. The room had a peaked ceiling of aluminum that was less than 20 but more than 15 feet high. I'm dying to know how his recording came out but I flailed and didn't get his info...