Topic: SP-CMC-4U Mics

[poorlyconditioned]

Guys,

After reading through this thread, I have a few concerns with what I was planning to use for one of my setups.  I just bought these mics:

[SOUND PROFESSIONALS DELUXE MINI CARDIOID STEREO MICROPHONES. MADE IN USA.]
   
SP-CMC-22 - SOUND PROFESSIONALS - DELUXE MINI CARDIOID STEREO MICROPHONES

I was going to buy:

SP-SPSB-8 - SOUND PROFESSIONALS - MINI BATTERY MODULE WITH OPTIONAL BASS ROLL OFF AND OUTPUT LEVEL CONTROL.

Then run to my Church audio ST-9000 preamp, then to JB3

I plan on taping metal and hard rock, not in arena's, but small clubs.

Am I going to have a problem with distortion, and if so, when do I need to buy/mod.

Thanks for the great thread, I have learned alot.

Try it first listen alot of people already have the AT mics and dont have distortion issues. Try your setup and see how it is. if it does distort I can show you how to mod the mics or send them to me I will do it for $10.00

Chris Church

Just to clarify...the CMC-22s do not have AT capsules, they have Panasonic capsules...

Oh I am sorry I thought they were AT mics........ In that case I dont think they can be modifyed.... I am sure they will be fine I think SP already mods these mics but I might be wrong I would ask Chris at SP. I am sure he can tell you what kind of levels these mics will work at....

Chris Church

Hey Chris,

My guess is that soundpros *do not* modify their mics.  I think the only other company that does is Core Sound, and they do the "linkwitz mod" instead of your method.  I like your method better, since the mics are compatable with "standard" 2-wire battery boxes.

  Richard

[Church-Audio]

Guys,

After reading through this thread, I have a few concerns with what I was planning to use for one of my setups.  I just bought these mics:

[SOUND PROFESSIONALS DELUXE MINI CARDIOID STEREO MICROPHONES. MADE IN USA.]
   
SP-CMC-22 - SOUND PROFESSIONALS - DELUXE MINI CARDIOID STEREO MICROPHONES

I was going to buy:

SP-SPSB-8 - SOUND PROFESSIONALS - MINI BATTERY MODULE WITH OPTIONAL BASS ROLL OFF AND OUTPUT LEVEL CONTROL.

Then run to my Church audio ST-9000 preamp, then to JB3

I plan on taping metal and hard rock, not in arena's, but small clubs.

Am I going to have a problem with distortion, and if so, when do I need to buy/mod.

Thanks for the great thread, I have learned alot.

Try it first listen alot of people already have the AT mics and dont have distortion issues. Try your setup and see how it is. if it does distort I can show you how to mod the mics or send them to me I will do it for $10.00

Chris Church

Just to clarify...the CMC-22s do not have AT capsules, they have Panasonic capsules...

Oh I am sorry I thought they were AT mics........ In that case I dont think they can be modifyed.... I am sure they will be fine I think SP already mods these mics but I might be wrong I would ask Chris at SP. I am sure he can tell you what kind of levels these mics will work at....

Chris Church

Hey Chris,

My guess is that soundpros *do not* modify their mics.  I think the only other company that does is Core Sound, and they do the "linkwitz mod" instead of your method.  I like your method better, since the mics are compatable with "standard" 2-wire battery boxes.

  Richard

My method also works with Panasonic mics too.... And transound ts-60a ( A very VERY ) easy omni capsule to mod funny enough the distortion figures on the transound ts-60 end up being the same as the AT mics 0.5% after the mod... Anyone wanting a good capsule to make a nice pair of omni mics out of should look at the ts-60a very closely its a dead match for the Panasonic 60 capsule..

[loul69]

Hi, after reading all this post, i can t take a decision.
I also own a pair of cmc-4-u.
So, I d like to know what is the best for these mics:
- Battery box with bass roll off?
- 3-wire battery box?
- 3-wire battery box with preamp?
- phantom?
- .....

I use to record rock, pop or metal shows....
Thanks for the help and for this post.

[Church-Audio]

Hi, after reading all this post, i can t take a decision.
I also own a pair of cmc-4-u.
So, I d like to know what is the best for these mics:
- Battery box with bass roll off?
- 3-wire battery box?
- 3-wire battery box with preamp?
- phantom?
- .....

I use to record rock, pop or metal shows....
Thanks for the help and for this post.

My st-9100 will work great with these mics and reduce your distortion. On the other hand if you put in the 4.7 k resistor mod I do you can buy a plain old battery box but you will not have any extra gain.

[loul69]

I'm sure of it, thanks a lot, but it's a little more expensive.
I mean what is the best for U853 in an homemade battery box ...Richard's one? Is it important to have a preamp or a 3-wire battery box is suffsant?

Thanks

[Church-Audio]

I'm sure of it, thanks a lot, but it's a little more expensive.
I mean what is the best for U853 in an homemade battery box ...Richard's one? Is it important to have a preamp or a 3-wire battery box is suffsant?

Thanks

It really does depend on a few things.. 1 what are you connecting the mic too (what recorder) The battery box by it self does not improve distortion... But when you go to three wire or my mod you will get reduced distortion its all a matter of if extra gain is required with a battery box you get no extra gain. With a preamp you do. So its up to you... I only suggested my preamp because it kills two birds with one stone it provides a battery box $100 if you just got a battery box and a preamp $79.00 so IMO if you can afford to spend the extra $79 I would but that's up to you I am not trying to sell you anything.. But I am being honest my preamp does give you the most amount of flexibility for under $200.00

[cgresq192]

Chris,

How much gain do you lose when you go 3 wire with your 9100 pre?

What is the total gain after the 3 wire mod?

[loul69]

Hey chris, don t you the sell the schematics of your preamp  .....

[Church-Audio]

Chris,

How much gain do you lose when you go 3 wire with your 9100 pre?

What is the total gain after the 3 wire mod?

As soon as you do my mod or 3 wire you lose about 15 db or so that's why my preamp is a good deal because you lose the distortion but make up all the lost gain and then some.. That's why I built it..

Chris Church

[cgresq192]

so you're' still getting 20db gain with 3 wire?

[Church-Audio]

Hey chris, don t you the sell the schematics of your preamp  .....

Hey why don't you build your own heheh. Hey if you want to try and build a preamp similar to mine its not big deal I will help you with it. I will not charge for my help.

Chris Church

[Church-Audio]

so you're' still getting 20db gain with 3 wire?

Yeppers its actually more like +25 but who's counting

[cgresq192]

I thought your 9100 pre only does 20db gain, do you gain more with a 3 wire mod?

[Church-Audio]

I thought your 9100 pre only does 20db gain, do you gain more with a 3 wire mod?

no you don't gain anymore the st-9100 will put out about 23.5 db or so at max with a new battery. But I just say +20.

[poorlyconditioned]

IMO the three-wire box (or Chris' 4.7k mod) loses a bit of gain, but not much.  I would guess something like -10dB or so.  But it is not a problem in practice (see below).

For any reasonable level of amplified music, a minidisc mic-in/low-sens will work great.  I've recorded a ton of shows with this.  FYI, mic-in/low-sens on MD is pretty much the same as mic-in/low-sens setting on the Edirol R09.  Both have moderate gain (around +20dB max) and a wide range of variation of input levels that will not overload (eg., from -20dBv to +10dBv).  At these moderate levels of amplification mic pre noise is not usually a problem.

Problem cases are:
- recording quieter stuff, like acoustic music.  You could run mic-in/hi-sens, but that is noisy, but an external pre will help.
- recording with certain low output mics, like Sony ECM-907.  These are  about -10dB lower than the AT stuff.
- trying to run into line input on crappy analog inputs, like iRivier, NJB3, etc.  These provide a little gain, but it is terrible quality,
   so all the gain should come from an external preamp.

I suspect a preamp may provide a bit nicer/cleaner gain than the MD/Edirol mic-in/low-sens inputs.  I'm currently getting one of Chris' pres to check this out.  But it is not really needed to get started.  Consider it as a potential upgrade later on.

  Richard

PS: Thanks for Chris for posting, and *repeatedly* answering the same questions.  That is one reason I stopped selling battery boxes.  I just don't have the patience for that.  I also worry about building/servicing stuff for others.  I keep worrying that it will break and I will let people down.

I'm wondering if some kind person can put this stuff in an FAQ.  Perhaps a "flowchart" saying what conditions you need a battery box/three-wire box/preamp, and where to get one (links to Chris or others to buy and links to some schematics I've posted in the past if you want to build one).  Sorry, I don't have the energy to do this right now.