Topic: Schoeps Mid-Side

[F.O.Bean]

Youc an get an MBHO KA800 N fig-8 capsule for around 600/shipped

Yeah, but then I need the body too. The Schoeps would be cheaper and more low profile if I just needed a fig-8 only wouldn't it?

I DOUBT the Schoeps would be ANY cheaper bud And the MBHO's ahve an active optiopn as well. Thats what I run, the MBHO 603 A bodies are the active bodies. If you ONLY wanted the F-8+body, and are intent on using your Akg's as the mid mic, you can prolly score a 603 or 603a body + fig-8 capsule for around 1k-1100 or so. the schoeps capsule is that much alone. youd still need a body with the schoeps unless you spent teh BOOKOO bucks on the CCM8, which is the CCM series that doesnt have a full body, and I bet those are about 2k a piece, give or take

The MBHO's would def be cheaper and thats with the capsule+body. since youre akg's are ful-bodied anyway, it wouldnt be a huge ordeal getting the 603 A non-active MBHO body+ KA800N fig8 capsule....You could *probably* score the MBHO 603 A(pair)+KA800N fig8 capsule+a pair of either the KA200 N(Cards) or the KA500 HN(Hypers) pairs for around 2k if you got everything used but the KA800N fig8 capsule, since thyre VERY RARE used....

I would stray away from mixing mic companies if I were you. Your cheapest and easiest route would be to get an LSD2(with those KILLER modded Peluso caps that Busman does) or just that Peluso P Stereo mic ouright......I would bet that the stock LSD2 sound sgood enough anyway tho......For $750 or so new, you could get that LSD2 and it does M/S, XY, and Bluemein all in one stereo mic Thats what I would do if I were you. Since I already own the MBHO 603 A's+their Cards and Hypers, my cheapest and stealthiest/easiest route would be to just get the MBHO KA800N fig8 capsule, althou a new LSD2 wouldnt be much more than that, with more options taboot.....

The Schoeps are def wonderful mics, but are you willing to spend around 3-4k just for M/S from them Thats the question you have to ask yourself And then youd need an extra mk4 or mk41 to run those in stereo pairs when you dontw ant to use the M/S setup! I would think a Busman Peluso modded LSD2 would sound damn near as good as ANY stereo mic on the market, even those ultra sweet/rare AKG stereo mics that everyone loves......I heave heard his Peluso Modded ADK TL mics and they sound ASTONISHING with the Peluso Capsule upgrade His Peluso capsule upgrades are pricey as hell, but IMO theyre worth every penny.....

[BayTaynt3d]

Bean, I'm keeping my 480s no matter what, so no probs if I want to run other configs... 

You of all people should know that, hell, you're probably half the reason I own 480s in the first place, lol...

On the LSD2 front, agreed, but that sure ain't low profile, lol... Still something I'm considering though. Thing about that is I record a lot of acoustic jazz, and an LD setup is nice cause it helps smooth down brass like trumpets, which can be harsh/bright up front with pencils.

And yup, I was looking at the price of the cap only, my bad, I didn't realize it. I thought that was the price of the CCM8. Now I know...

[F.O.Bean]

Bean, I'm keeping my 480s no matter what, so no probs if I want to run other configs... 

You of all people should know that, hell, you're probably half the reason I own 480s in the first place, lol...

On the LSD2 front, agreed, but that sure ain't low profile, lol... Still something I'm considering though. Thing about that is I record a lot of acoustic jazz, and an LD setup is nice cause it helps smooth down brass like trumpets, which can be harsh/bright up front with pencils.

And yup, I was looking at the price of the cap only, my bad, I didn't realize it. I thought that was the price of the CCM8. Now I know...

No problem bud

And how am I half the reason you own the 480's Because of my incessant fluffing or because you actually listened to a bunch of my recordings

I guess if you want a lo-pro setup to do this, the MBHO's would be the way to go. I just havent figured out how I am going to mount the actives with the M/S MBHO setup yet I would LOVE a Neumann-like M/S mount. If I could find one that would fit the 20mm diameter of the MBHO's, Id be in business. And one thats cheaper than the Neumann M/S mount as well. Because I believe the Neumann MS mount is somewhere like 300+ JUST for the MS mount Im sure the Schoeps MS mount is about the same. I swear I saw a Neumann/Schoeps-like MS mount on B+H or somewhere like that......Im almost positive that MBHO DOESNT make an MS mount, so thats leaves us to find one on our own

Does ANYONE know where an MS mount can be found for 20mm mics

Thanks in advance,
Bean

[CQBert]

not sure if they are compatible with all 20mm or not.. schoeps basic shock mount, maybe with strong elastics and the m/s mount (hsmsg or something like that)..  check and see if kwon would make one if that will not fit you application..

CQBert

[F.O.Bean]

not sure if they are compatible with all 20mm or not.. schoeps basic shock mount, maybe with strong elastics and the m/s mount (hsmsg or something like that)..  check and see if kwon would make one if that will not fit you application..

CQBert

Opps, I meant 21mm diameter....

I may have def found a solution that would be both cheap and lightweight and lo-profile.....Check this thread out The Audix Micro stand adapter that B+H sells might just work out PERFECT if it would SNUGLY hold the mini-xlr clip on the MBHO Actives I would imagine that if it holds the Audix Micros SNUGLY, then it could also hold the mini-xlr snugly, since if the mini-xlr isnt exactly flush with the audix micros bodies, then it couldnt be THAT MUCH smaller in diameter. I am sure I could rig something up with those micros stand adapters that would hold an MBHO M/S actives setup snugly

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,94306.msg1256402.html#msg1256402

EDIT: Sorry about the slight thread highjack, but it could DEFINITELY benefit you and I both if you go the MBHO M/S actives route

[Tim]

For general interest, according to Don Pearson (Healy's right hand man), Howard Danchik was using an AKG C34 in MS with card+figure8 to feed their UltraMatrix machine for quite a while. 

+T good info

Don doesn't get enough credit either

[Jamos]

Sad that AKG doesn't make a figure 8 ULS capsule...then you'd be set.

[F.O.Bean]

Sad that AKG doesn't make a figure 8 ULS capsule...then you'd be set.

no doubt

[JiB97]

Bean, check this thread out for ideas on an M/S mount when you get that Figure 8 capsule: http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,75104.msg1003276.html#msg1003276

[BayTaynt3d]

Sad that AKG doesn't make a figure 8 ULS capsule...then you'd be set.

no doubt

No doubt, I've thought about pairing the 480 for m with a 390 for s, wonder how that'd sound. Certainly one of my cheaper options...

[DSatz]

bobbygeeWOW, you wrote somewhere back up above:

> With ya 100% - MS on stage(lip) to gain phase-free coincidence + 180 degree recordable stereo angle that you can dial down later to widen the image if it works out that way

With a forward-facing cardioid, M and S microphones of equal sensitivity on axis and a unity-gain matrix, the stereophonic recording angle would be only about 106 degrees total (+/- 53 degrees) if I'm doing my math correctly.

And if so, I think that's fortunate. A 180-degree SRA is so wide that it generally scrunches all the direct sound sources together, almost to the center of the reproduced stereo image in playback. It's what you'd get with a puny 90 degrees between a pair of X/Y cardioids--not from M/S with a cardioid M microphone.



--best regards

[F.O.Bean]

Sad that AKG doesn't make a figure 8 ULS capsule...then you'd be set.

no doubt

No doubt, I've thought about pairing the 480 for m with a 390 for s, wonder how that'd sound. Certainly one of my cheaper options...

Ive thought about that for a LONG time and at the end, figured it wasnt a good idea FOR ME. Not to mention the HUGE detail diff between the 480 and 390 lines......Like DSatz said above this post, you want to mix the SAME series of mics, ala 480+480(not realistic) or Schoeps+Schoeps, or MBHO+MBHO, etc so you have the same sensitivity with both the mid and side capsule. Just so were on the same page here, I HAVE NEVER RAN M/S, but I have been recording with a quality rig(481>DMIC-20) for the last 10 years and have done my research...I too wanted to get into M/S BADLY a few years back and was going to mix a 480(mid)+390(side) but I opted to wait until I could get the same series of mics, and then I stumbled onto a KILLER deal for my MBHO Actives+Cards+hypers.....This way I can use a card OR hyper for the mid depending on the situation, and Im still matching mic series.....I would wait until you can afford a solution you want, but also it might not be a bad idea to get a 390 body+fig-8 capsule for the 390's just so you have some MS experience under your belt when you can finally afford to get the side capsule your heart desires(and a matching mid)......thats also money youd be spending that you could have been saving towards the fig-8 capsule you really want tho........

In reality, you have a few diff options, and its up to you how quickly you want to get into MS......Noone else can make that judgement for you!

[BayTaynt3d]

From my perspective, I'm often sticking my pair nearly in the middle of a u-shaped set of musicians, where the musicians on the left and right might almost be dead on the fig-8 caps, and in those situations, having a card hitting straight ahead and the eight almost straight on the side musicians, it almost is a literal 180 degree situation, in which case I was thinking that MS might be the ultimate setup, especially with the options I'd have in post?

[CQBert]

I would suggest trying to borrow whatever rig you settle on and running it a time or two to see what you think... play with the mixes, record from different locations etc and see what you like.

If you are taping heavily in an odd environment M/S may not be the best route - however if you have the luxury of being in familiar surroundings, with taper friendly musicians that do not mind on-stage set ups, or you have access to a constant sweet spot - jump in head first... 

I am trying to make the jump to 4ch but with another child on the way it will have to wait...   My next major purchase will be a 744 or a Sonosax R4 (Assuming they ever release it) and then a Neumann USM69.  I would run the USM69 in blumlein or M/S and then the DPA's ORTF and mix in post....  Keep in mind that is nearly $10k in new gear, it will take a year or two minimum and I will have to justify it within the confines of life...

Every leap is difficult and takes a lot of research and thought...  you have begun a great process - keep pluggin' away, you do not need to do it all at once  - for what it is worth, Bean has a nice compromise with the MBHO's, nice sound, good price, readily available used and in good condition.... 

CQBert

[F.O.Bean]

Bean, check this thread out for ideas on an M/S mount when you get that Figure 8 capsule: http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,75104.msg1003276.html#msg1003276

+T, that might actually work too, if I could get JUSt the front rubber bands to snugly hold my mid+side actives, since I dont want to run the full bodies like KLowe is doing.....I already have the full-bodied MS covered with my AT 8415 shocks+vert bar......Since its such a cheap option, i will DEF be trying both this method you pointed out and also my Audix Micros clips idea with my extra Shure a53m Thanks fellas! +T's all around!