Topic: sound board recording.. ?

[towncop1978]

hey guys.. Quick question about recording from sound board... I have a M10 and I always record with my CA-14... But this type I will be given an opportunity to record directly via the sound board.. I asked a musician from the group what he tought about people recording their show. His reply was to record any way we wanted.   So I asked him if I could plug in his sound board. His reply was yes..   So I am looking to see what connections would be needed to plug it in?  I have ordered two cables for this setup... I ordered the  3.5mm to dual 1/4 cable and the  3.5 mm to single stereo 1/4 cable.. I believe I should be able to hook up my M10..  Im just asking for any advice from anyone familiar with recording in this setup.. thank..

[acidjack]

To answer your question:

Most boards I plug into have RCA "tape" outs, so you'd need an RCA>stereo mini cable for that.

Some also have 1/4", which it sounds like you have covered.

A few have just XLR, for which you'd need an XLR>stereo mini cable or adapters for one of the ones you already have.

You will probably also need an attenuator, unless the sound engineer wants to be nice and be sure to turn the outputs down for you.

The bigger question is whether you really want just a straight SBD if you are only running 2-channel. How big is the room?  If it's a stadium or a very large arena, maybe the house mix will be OK.  If it's a club (call it 1500 or less), more likely than not the board will be poorly balanced with too much vocals/drums/keys and not enough guitars.  It's not because the house doesn't know what they are doing; it is because the mix you are getting is what will sound good coming out of a PA system along with the stage guitar amps. 

When mixed with an AUD source, a board is a great thing to have, but on their own, they can be pretty iffy. More likely than not, you'll get something that at best doesn't sound "right" and at worst is just a distorted mess because the signal coming in was too hot.

If you're married to the idea of running SBD, though, I hope someone can point you to a good attenuator cable.  I don't own any myself as my deck can control hot incoming signals, but you will (almost) definitely need one.

[yltfan]

Agree with everything acidjack says above, although I get more xlr outs than rca or 1/4". But I have never done a 1/4" stereo patch. If it's not too late, I would cancel that cable, I think it will be of little use.

A good setup for what you are doing would be an rca-mini cable, with 1/4" male to rca adapters, and xlr female to rca adapters. That should get you there 99% of the time.

I don't have attenuators, I just ask the person running the board to drop my signal back so that the house music just barely gets my levels going, assuming the band will be much louder.

[Fried Chicken Boy]

Agree with everything acidjack says above, although I get more xlr outs than rca or 1/4". But I have never done a 1/4" stereo patch. If it's not too late, I would cancel that cable, I think it will be of little use.

A good setup for what you are doing would be an rca-mini cable, with 1/4" male to rca adapters, and xlr female to rca adapters. That should get you there 99% of the time.

x2.  As for the rest, I've gotten XLR outs from the console about 90% of the time I have a feed; RCA for the remaining 10%.  The only time I've personally ever needed 1/4" is if I wanted to plug directly into a sub, but then you'll need to multi-track it.

[brad.bartels]

Had the same question myself a while back and somebody pointed me to this thread:

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,121657.0.html

Found it very helpful and I think that should cover just about any situation you encounter. Not sure how much time you have before the show - it took me a while to accumulate everything.

[live2cd]

when I started getting serious about taping (10+ years ago), I dabbled w/ sbd recording as I was friends with Local H's soundguy. He let me run whatever I wanted (RCA some, XLR at some) and I gotta say... every single time I ran board, the aud sounded better. Ive never gone back to soundboard. Even those arena shows sounded flat! You gotta run a multi-track, and I dont have the money for that.

Funny thing is Scott (the lead singer, guitar player) heard the board recordings I was making and putting on Archive and demanded soon after (late 2003) that SBD's were no longer allowed. Only for acoustic solo performances. Kind of funny.

[yltfan]

^ Agreed. Unless you're in a big room, or can get a custom mix, AUD is better than SBD, but a good mix of both can be great.

[brad.bartels]

when I started getting serious about taping (10+ years ago), I dabbled w/ sbd recording as I was friends with Local H's soundguy. He let me run whatever I wanted (RCA some, XLR at some) and I gotta say... every single time I ran board, the aud sounded better. Ive never gone back to soundboard. Even those arena shows sounded flat! You gotta run a multi-track, and I dont have the money for that.

Funny thing is Scott (the lead singer, guitar player) heard the board recordings I was making and putting on Archive and demanded soon after (late 2003) that SBD's were no longer allowed. Only for acoustic solo performances. Kind of funny.

Agree and pretty much same thing acidjack said as well. If you have the equipment - either 2 recorders or ability to run 4 channels, I would definitely run both mics and SBD. If one is clearly better, you can just go with it or do a matrix. A matrix is not something I've ventured to try yet, but I'm sure you can get help here from folks (first I'd need the equipment to be able to run both...).

[achalsey]

I seem to use 1/4" the most I believe.  RCA cable with 1/4" adapters has gotten me by at everywhere in town except one place that has only XLR outs.

[towncop1978]

geeez guys..... each one of you guys provided very good information..  I have two weeks for this event. the venue is a small one, less than 500 peeps.... I went ahead and ordered mini to rca, mini to xrl male and female...  once again thanks...

[yltfan]

geeez guys..... each one of you guys provided very good information..  I have two weeks for this event. the venue is a small one, less than 500 peeps.... I went ahead and ordered mini to rca, mini to xrl male and female...  once again thanks...

XLR male is highly unlikely, I'd skip that, and since you don't have 1/4", the likelihood of that being the only option just shot way up (Murphy's Law) so I recommend going to Rat Shack or somewhere and spending $8 or so on rca-1/4" adapters.

[acidjack]

geeez guys..... each one of you guys provided very good information..  I have two weeks for this event. the venue is a small one, less than 500 peeps.... I went ahead and ordered mini to rca, mini to xrl male and female...  once again thanks...

XLR male is highly unlikely, I'd skip that, and since you don't have 1/4", the likelihood of that being the only option just shot way up (Murphy's Law) so I recommend going to Rat Shack or somewhere and spending $8 or so on rca-1/4" adapters.

Agree with this and all of the above.

FWIW I've found that the smaller the venue the more likely you are to encounter an older board with RCA "REC" outs rather than the (much better) prospect of using one of their XLR outs. That may just be peculiar to where I am and the venues I go to.  All of the bigger venues with nicer, newer equipment seem to give out XLR feeds; one that I go to uses 1/4".

If given a choice, of course always go with XLR.  And as yltfan said, if the sound guy is nice and has an independent level control on the SBD, get him (or her) to turn the feed down for you as he suggested.

[easyed]

The assessment that soundboards sound worse than audience does not apply to acoustic music, that is, music without drums or electric guitars.

If the soundman is doing a poor job mixing, a soundboard will be unsatisfactory.  But then so would the audience recording of the same show.

For acoustic stringed instrumental music, it is highly unlikely that an audience recording would be superior to a soundboard.

Does a mandolin sound better from one foot away or fifty feet away?  Acoustic guitar?

[yousef]

Does a mandolin sound better from one foot away or fifty feet away?  Acoustic guitar?

I don't think it's always as straightforward as that.

Two things that spring immediately to mind are that board feeds are generally quite thin sounding and uninvolving without a bit of room ambience in there plus I find that adding an audience source to the mix often takes the edge off that nasty processed sound that many piezo-equipped acoustic guitars have on a raw board tape.

One thought I always keep in mind is that the sound is being mixed to sound good through the PA in that particular venue on that particular night. Quite a big difference between that and putting the same signal though a stereo system at home. I'm sure it'll sound clean and clear but will it necessarily sound musical?

Plus board tapes are usually (as good as) mono, have muted audience reaction...

[runonce]

The assessment that soundboards sound worse than audience does not apply to acoustic music, that is, music without drums or electric guitars.

If the soundman is doing a poor job mixing, a soundboard will be unsatisfactory.  But then so would the audience recording of the same show.

For acoustic stringed instrumental music, it is highly unlikely that an audience recording would be superior to a soundboard.

Does a mandolin sound better from one foot away or fifty feet away?  Acoustic guitar?

In most cases - you aren't recording a mandolin - you're recording a speaker.

I agree with the yousef - acoustic soundboards can sound a bit sterile, and fatiguing - especially with the muted crowd response.
A guitar eq that may have been good for the room, might be annoying on a home stereo - this is particularly true for acoustic recordings.
I often find strings sound too "picky" (too much pick click)

Upon listening - your instinct is to think the full, clear signal of the SBD is "better"  -  but the art of this hobby is figuring out how to record a compelling AUD.

I only go board if I know the AUD will be a dog - or if Im feeling lazy and want to limit my effort to a deck and a pair of RCAs.

I might make the exception for the increasingly rare situation where a band might not be using instruments will pickups or DIs - and will instead be mic'd individually - the leak on the mics is enough to add some live "slop" to give a nice feel - that might make a nice board.