Topic: first setup question

[atxwolfattack]

hey, i posted a few days ago asking some questions about a semi stealth setup. So this is kind of what i have come down to...

CHURCH AUDIO STC-9000 CARDIOD MICROPHONES and PREAMP

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&sspagename=ADME%3AL%3ARTQ%3AUS%3A1&viewitem=&item=260072905972&rd=1

and then a Edirol R-09.

With this setup, I am looking at somewhere around 600 dollars, and i don't think i can really afford that right now. If i did just go all in and buy this setup, it seems like it would be pretty good and last me a while, correct?


My other idea would be to get those mics and preamp, but get like a HI-MD recorder instead, probably used on ebay, and if i can get one for about 200 bucks, i would end up saving about 200 bucks. Do you think i should just save up a little bit more and get the edirol, or just save my money and get like a Hi-MD, or some other less expensive device? I don't go to a ton of shows, but if this is something that is going to last me many years, then it seems like it could be worth it to go all in and spend like 600 bucks.

thanks a bunch,

Josh

[F.O.Bean]

what about a used iriver with rockbox firmware installed

its only 16-bit but has NO compression and can be found for around 150 US

[Chanher]

what about a used iriver with rockbox firmware installed

its only 16-bit but has NO compression and can be found for around 150 US

the iriver would work better than minidisc because there is no disc flip to contend with. With 20 gigs (or more if you want) you can record for hours upon hours without having to touch the recorder. plus the internal batt and harddrive can eventually be swapped if needed.

If you are dead set on 24-bit than the R-9 is your recorder, otherwise the iriver will work out quite well.

[atxwolfattack]

so that Iriver with rockbox firmware actually works pretty good? Besides 24 bit, what are the main disadvantages of it compared to the R-09?

edit:
It's the iriver H120/140 correct? one of those?

[Church-Audio]

so that Iriver with rockbox firmware actually works pretty good? Besides 24 bit, what are the main disadvantages of it compared to the R-09?

edit:
It's the iriver H120/140 correct? one of those?

Don't forget to look at the nomad as well its the cheapest option for recording good audio besides HIMD recorders.

[atxwolfattack]

so that Iriver with rockbox firmware actually works pretty good? Besides 24 bit, what are the main disadvantages of it compared to the R-09?

edit:
It's the iriver H120/140 correct? one of those?

Don't forget to look at the nomad as well its the cheapest option for recording good audio besides HIMD recorders.

are those Nomad Jukebox 3 small enough to fit in a pocket? say that in one pocket, and one of your pre-amps in the other?

[atxwolfattack]

i am trying to figure out what the difference between the iRiver H-120 and the H320 is?

Oh, the H320 does not have optical in. Wait, i know i am gonna sound totally stupid, but what is the difference between optical and analog? Optical basically means digital right, but would these Church Audio mic's connect to an optical in, or a analog in? I am confusing myself, haha.

[Church-Audio]

i am trying to figure out what the difference between the iRiver H-120 and the H320 is?

Oh, the H320 does not have optical in. Wait, i know i am gonna sound totally stupid, but what is the difference between optical and analog? Optical basically means digital right, but would these Church Audio mic's connect to an optical in, or a analog in? I am confusing myself, haha.

My preamp is not an A-D converter so you would go into the line input, the JB3 is big but its cheap and hell it sounds pretty good. I personally think that all this talk about 24 bit is not that important when your starting out. 16 Bit has been the professional standard for years. Hell half of us grew up on it. I am a bit older I remember RECORDS! the "other" round disks they were good too. I just think in some cases you have to look at your source if its a shitty bar band chances are the difference between 24 bit and 16 bit will be lost by the no-mind kid mixing the band anyway But there are always exceptions to this rule I have seen people come in and operate the worst gear in the world and produce would class live sound, I have also been there when the "bands sound guy" needed me to tell him how to operate the console, or better yet if I would not mind getting him his sounds so he can pose behind the sound board when the band goes on Sorry I went off on a wee bit of a tangent there 

[Chanher]

yeah for your setup no need for digital in like Chris said.

The jb3 and the iriver are pretty identical sounding to my ears. since they're roughly the same price I think the iriver makes more sense. The jb3 is bigger, try to imagine a discman. It will fit in a jean pocket but not comfortably. the iriver is very ipod like in size and shape. Also, the jb3 has been discontinued so who knows how long we have access to new internal batts, and the iriver internal batt is universal (think ipod) and can be found on ebay and replaced.

But, I've had two jb3's over the course of a couple years and I don't think I can remember one non-user error ever. very solid for me.

[dorrcoq]

CHURCH AUDIO STC-9000 CARDIOD MICROPHONES and PREAMP
and then a Edirol R-09.

Josh

That's what I'm running, and I like it a lot.

[atxwolfattack]

thanks a bunch, everyone, i really appreciate it. Looks like i am gonna go with the iRiver, purely because of size issues. If it was not 100 degrees all year in austin, then i could just put the JB3 in my hoodie or sweatshirt or something, but yeah, it just don't know if i will be able to comfortably jam one of those things into my pocket. So it looks like i am gonna go with...

CHURCH AUDIO STC-9000 CARDIOD MICROPHONES and PREAMP
iRiver iHP-120

seem like a pretty good starter setup?


If anyone has any links to good tips for beginner tapers, i would really appreciate it.
Like for example, where would be the best place to put these little mics when i am taping? attach them to a hat or something?
Also, when do you know to use the gain on the preamp, i am guessing the quieter the show, the more gain you use? And on like the iRiver, when i turn the gain on from the preamp, will it actually show the levels bars go up on the iRiver?

thanks!



oh yeah, also, i know that the Church-Audio preamp is not an A/D converter, what will the quality loss between just analog and digital in? Are there cheap external A/D converter, or are they all big and expensive? Should i just not even worry about it?

[Chanher]

So it looks like i am gonna go with...

CHURCH AUDIO STC-9000 CARDIOD MICROPHONES and PREAMP
iRiver iHP-120

seem like a pretty good starter setup?

I have that very same preamp and have used it with the iriver, it is MUCH better than using the gain on the recorder. I have not used the mics but I am very curious to see how they sound. I've been thinking, with all these mini-condensors (AT mics, Core Sound, Squid, Church Audio etc.) how much of a difference can there really be? Honestly, if you put them all head-to-head, I bet they'd sound quite similar.

If anyone has any links to good tips for beginner tapers, i would really appreciate it.
Like for example, where would be the best place to put these little mics when i am taping? attach them to a hat or something?

Try searching "stealth techniques" etc. and check the archives. Tons of good info and pics if you search right. IMO in-hat is the best way, you want to get the mics as high as possible.

Also, when do you know to use the gain on the preamp, i am guessing the quieter the show, the more gain you use? And on like the iRiver, when i turn the gain on from the preamp, will it actually show the levels bars go up on the iRiver?

precisely. When you get your gear, practice setting levels to your stereo being loud. or better yet, go to some local band and mess around with it. you will need to set the levels so that they are close to 0dB but not going over.  Basically, you want the PEAKS of the meters right below the threshold. try slowly cranking the gain, and watch for the point when it starts hitting 0dB. listen at home and you will hear the distortion.

oh yeah, also, i know that the Church-Audio preamp is not an A/D converter, what will the quality loss between just analog and digital in? Are there cheap external A/D converter, or are they all big and expensive? Should i just not even worry about it?

don't even worry about it.

[atxwolfattack]

Thanks a bunch Chanher, I have one more quick question. On the ebay auction for the preamp and mic, it says...

"THREE LEVELS OF GAIN SETTINGS +30 +10,  0db"

So basically, say that my levels are looking too low, i would move the gain up to the +10 notch, if that shoots the levels too much so it peaks over the threshold, then i just turn the levels down on the iRiver?

I guess i will be able to mess around with it, hopefully i don't get a dud on ebay.....

[Chanher]

did you already buy the preamp? My preamp has a gain dial, not settings.

send a PM to Church Audio here at TS, he posted in this thread. he'll make sure you have the right setup.

[dorrcoq]

I guess i will be able to mess around with it, hopefully i don't get a dud on ebay.....

Chris builds them himself - you won't get a dud.