Topic: Soundboard question

[Belexes]

Last Friday I recorded from a Yamaha PMD5 digital board > Stereo XLR'S to 1/8" > R-09.  It came out fine, but I was given the option to run the fader as I pleased.  This was in a theater and I saw the house mains peaking at -10 to -20 dB, but I was peaking at -40.  I decided just to live with what I was given, even though I could have run it hotter, but I was worried about a brickwall type situation.

Is there any way to know what to set the board feed at?  Should I set the R-09 at "unity" and just adjust the levels from the fader?

The recording turned out fine, but that was probably luck more than anything.

[Church-Audio]

Last Friday I recorded from a Yamaha PMD5 digital board > Stereo XLR'S to 1/8" > R-09.  It came out fine, but I was given the option to run the fader as I pleased.  This was in a theater and I saw the house mains peaking at -10 to -20 dB, but I was peaking at -40.  I decided just to live with what I was given, even though I could have run it hotter, but I was worried about a brickwall type situation.

Is there any way to know what to set the board feed at?  Should I set the R-09 at "unity" and just adjust the levels from the fader?

The recording turned out fine, but that was probably luck more than anything.

When your taking audio out of a console its always better to leave lots of headroom because you dont know if the sound engineer is going to need more level and where he is going to get the extra level he needs. As a rule I always run my left and right at 0db and I always pfl the outputs to my press feed or tapers and give them around -20 db so if you have the ability to ask for a level asking for -20 db or so on the meter is always a good place to be. -20 db gives you plenty of headroom... and allows for bands that get hyper when they first get on.. Most bands when they do sound check they are at one level and when they step out on stage they are often 10 db louder at least in my experience.. I always give a band a lot of headroom on my console for that reason.

[rokpunk]

He didn't offer you the AES out of the 5D?
My normal signal flow on my rig is M7CL->AES output->722.
Works great, never clip since i'd have to be clipping the board to clip the recording.


modified: just realized r09 doesn't have digi in.

[Belexes]

No digi-in with the R-09, but I think I could use my old M1 DAT to get a digi feed from the board? I do have an Oade 7 pin passive.

And to Chris, thanks for the advice.  I'll ask for about -20 dB next time and see how the results are.  I think the level I was running on my R-09 was "20" and that's well over unity.

[rokpunk]

No digi-in with the R-09, but I think I could use my old M1 DAT to get a digi feed from the board? I do have an Oade 7 pin passive.

you might need to convert the AES down to S/PDIF, but yes, it should work.

[Belexes]

So an AES stereo cable to S/PDIF? Does such a cable exist or would this be custom? Thanks for the help.

[Tim]

So an AES stereo cable to S/PDIF? Does such a cable exist or would this be custom? Thanks for the help.

canare makes an adapter that you can order that will take an AES down to SPDIF.

[Belexes]

So an AES stereo cable to S/PDIF? Does such a cable exist or would this be custom? Thanks for the help.

canare makes an adapter that you can order that will take an AES down to SPDIF.

Thanks Tim. I'll have to do some hunting online for that. Canare's site wasn't too much help:

http://www.canare.com/index.cfm?objectid=ED7D5419-3048-7098-AFE37EAA392D9145

[Tim]

here it is, http://www.thebroadcastshop.com/sales/detail.asp?partno=BCJ-XJ-A10TR&aid=froogle

you'll need a bnc to rca adapter as well

[Church-Audio]

No digi-in with the R-09, but I think I could use my old M1 DAT to get a digi feed from the board? I do have an Oade 7 pin passive.

And to Chris, thanks for the advice.  I'll ask for about -20 dB next time and see how the results are.  I think the level I was running on my R-09 was "20" and that's well over unity.

RP is right though if you can get digital that is the way to go

[Belexes]

Thanks much.  I am going to be recording this band a lot, so it'll be worth it to get the gear/run digital.

[fey-metallica]

You say the recording came out just fine. I have no idea what type of band you taped, but with stereo XLR, don't you have guitars too low in the mix and the vocals and drumkick a bit too high? That usually is how the soundboard is set to get the best sound in the venue (at a metal gig).
It doesn't matter much wether I record with XLR/Jack or just minidisc straight into the soundboard, but that seems to be the problem over and over. Somebody has any experience in handling this?

[intpseeker]

You say the recording came out just fine. I have no idea what type of band you taped, but with stereo XLR, don't you have guitars too low in the mix and the vocals and drumkick a bit too high? That usually is how the soundboard is set to get the best sound in the venue (at a metal gig).
It doesn't matter much wether I record with XLR/Jack or just minidisc straight into the soundboard, but that seems to be the problem over and over. Somebody has any experience in handling this?

I was offered a soundboard feed at the New Riders the other night, but would have had to go xlr in because of the mod on the pmd660, and I decided to just go with my 451's instead.

The guy who took the feed used his Korg 1000 and sent me one of the songs. When I compare it to mine the difference is stark, and not just because of the huge difference in amount of info recorded by the two units.

We, the audience, didn't get a lot of the peddle steel nor the lead vocals, and that's what my mics reflect. On the other hand, his sound board of the song had great vocals and steel , and overall a pretty perfect mix to my ear.

I was DC just to the left of the board, so my simplistic question is how come we didn't hear what the board mix heard? As fey notes above, what you hear is not what you get.

[datbrad]

I recorded NRPS in Richmond Tuesday night off the SBD, mostly out of laziness. I had my mic rig, and so did Lynnz, and we almost pulled out and went for it FOB, but the ease of not guarding a stand won us over that night.

Wish we had gone with our instincts and ran mics, because the SBD, while crystal clear, has the vocals punched up far too loudly compared to the instruments. It's simple, the backline amps pushed out enough gain from the stage that they were not pulled into the PA as much as the vocals. Also, no compression was used on the vocals, and that would have tamed them in the SBD feed. 

With acoustic acts in clubs, SBDs are usually fine because there is no backline, so everything has to run through the PA, making the SBD mix very nice and even usually. I think I will stick to the SBD when able to in those acoustic situations, but will try and always go with mics for full electric bands in clubs. This is a lesson I already learned many years ago, but I ignored it like a fool.

I wonder if there is anything I could do to improve the mix in post? I may try compression, but I don't want that breathing effect where the instruments are made louder when there are no vocals, and when the vocals start the instruments fall into the background. Any advice?

[Belexes]

You say the recording came out just fine. I have no idea what type of band you taped, but with stereo XLR, don't you have guitars too low in the mix and the vocals and drumkick a bit too high? That usually is how the soundboard is set to get the best sound in the venue (at a metal gig).
It doesn't matter much wether I record with XLR/Jack or just minidisc straight into the soundboard, but that seems to be the problem over and over. Somebody has any experience in handling this?

I don't like SBD feeds in small clubs. They are running in mono, have a lot of stage volume, and as someone stated above the vocals are way up in the mix.

I was recording a classic rock band with a 30+ piece symphony in a 2000 seat theater.  The larger the venue, the better the SBD, or at least it seems to be the case.  Vocals are a little high in the mix, but all the other instruments are well represented, including a lead violinist.

I had no fears because I had a friend stealthing with his DAT.  It'll be cool to compare what he was getting from his seat versus my pull from the board.