Topic: Taping my first show - need advice on levels!!

[ideal77dlr]

Hi,
I'm planning to record my first show - mid-sized venue (about 2000-ish capacity) rock concert - think dylan, stones, etc..that kind of volume.

So here's my setup which I mostly inherited! - I have a Sony d6 DAT, audioreality binaural mics 1with a 50 Hz bass roll-off and a 20 dB CoreSound Attenuator Cable.

I think I have a pretty good kit, but I'm unsure of how to get the specifics right 'in the field'.
The basic idea is to use all this stuff, in the 'mic' input, set to 'low sensitivity'.

I've been told not to use the 'auto levels' setting on the d6, which would keep it at -12db constantly, and that it's better to use manual levels. So my first question, is where should I start on the dial? I don't want to spend the first 2mins of the recording going up and down and not knowing 'kind of' what I should be aiming for when I start. Should I be looking to keep it around that -12db mark manually?

Secondly, with my kind of setup, would the Attenuator Cable be worth using?

Last question! My bass roll-off has both a 30 Hz and 150 Hz setting. I've been told that the 150 Hz setting is what I should be using, does that sound about right?

What I don't want to end up with is a tinny recording, or one that's boomy and distorted.

Any advice welcomed but please go easy on me!!!

[Belexes]

You might want to just run line-in (instead of mic in) on your deck and skip the attenuator cable. Others may want to chime in on that.  Some of my louder concerts brickwalled when running mic-in on my Sony portables.

Aim for -12dB and work your way up from there. Clipping is forever, so best not to run hot from the get go.

19 years of taping and I have never used bass roll-off so I can't comment on that.

If I were you, I'd practice with your rig at a local club show just to get yourself comfortable before the real deal.

[su6oxone]

You might want to just run line-in (instead of mic in) on your deck and skip the attenuator cable. Others may want to chime in on that.  Some of my louder concerts brickwalled when running mic-in on my Sony portables.

Aim for -12dB and work your way up from there. Clipping is forever, so best not to run hot from the get go.

19 years of taping and I have never used bass roll-off so I can't comment on that.

If I were you, I'd practice with your rig at a local club show just to get yourself comfortable before the real deal.

What he said.  Probably better to go line-in unless it's a quieter type show.

Most here would probably recommend not using any bass roll-off, since you can't put in later what wasn't there to begin with, but you can decrease it later in post with your favorite editing program if it's too much. 

Don't know about your DAT recorder, but with 24-bit recording you can typically run your levels low (even below -12dB) and raise them in post without really having problems with noise/hiss.  You may want to invest in a 24-bit recorder in the future if your DAT does only 16-bit. 

[ideal77dlr]

ok thanks guys...

so, if I skip the cable and bass-roll off, and plug my mics right into the 'line in' jack, would I need to use a seperate pre-amp?

[su6oxone]

ok thanks guys...

so, if I skip the cable and bass-roll off, and plug my mics right into the 'line in' jack, would I need to use a seperate pre-amp?

I'm no expert by any means, but I would say that it depends on your mics and what kind of show you'll be taping.  For a loud rock show, you'll probably need to supply your mics with enough power to prevent distortion at high SPL.  That can be with a battery box or a preamp like the Church Audio 9100 preamp. 

mic > battery box/preamp > (line-in) recorder

For a quieter type show, you might be able to get away with plugging the mics into the mic-in and using plug-in power on the recorder to power the mics (depends on the power requirements of your mics and how much plug-in power your recorder can provide, if at all), but if you use a preamp (like the 9100) you can get the gain you may need since the volume of the show will be lower.  A preamp will also allow you to get the clean (less noisy) gain you will want.  Mic-in is a noisier input than line-in, generally speaking.

mic > preamp > (line-in) recorder

or...

mic > (mic-in) recorder

[Belexes]

I am not familiar with those mics, but when I used CSB mics, I had at the very minimum a battery box in the chain to properly power them.   I ran CSB > CSB battery box > (line-in) Sony portable DAT for a long time.

[jefflester]

So here's my setup which I mostly inherited! - I have a Sony d6 DAT, audioreality binaural mics 1with a 50 Hz bass roll-off and a 20 dB CoreSound Attenuator Cable.

Double check the model of the DAT machine, a "Sony D6" is a cassette deck. I'm guessing it's really a Sony TCD-D7 or D8?

Do the Audio Reality mics look like the photo currently on the website:
http://www.audioreality.com/
If there is a box like that (that's a "battery box") you don't need to worry about any other hardware (at least for now).

Fire up the recording during the opening act and check the levels, then you can just leave them there for the main act and not worry about fluctuating levels at the start. And personally I think you should start out running mic-in (low sensitivity) with the attenuator cable. There's a reason why the inherited equipment is the way it is. Or one way to check is try a home test - crank the stereo and try recording with the atten cable and low-sense mic input compared to no atten cable line-in with the record level set in the same place.

[ideal77dlr]

Thanks for the great advice guys, will try it out.

Yes I took a look at it is indeed a D7. 

[stevetoney]

Personally, I've never felt that I needed to take my rig out to a club to practice.  If you have a stereo, just crank the stereo.  If it sounds loud to your ears at home, it will approximate how loud it will be at the club.  Hit record and see what you get...does it record OK?  Does the recording clip?  If it clips, a battery box would probably help.

My fallback position on that was to clip or rubberband the mics directly so they're contacting the inside surface of a pair of can-style headphones.  Crank the headphones up to a volume that would be loud to your ears and then same thing.

Yeah, it's not the same as getting a club tape, but it will certainly give you a clue as to whether your mics will start to distort with your set-up...and what levels you might be able to go to before you start getting into trouble, etc.

Whenever practicing, speak your settings into the mics as you change settings...that way you won't have to guess about what your settings were later on as you review the results.

[dorrcoq]

Whenever practicing, speak your settings into the mics as you change settings...that way you won't have to guess about what your settings were later on as you review the results.

That's a hell of a good tip, thanks!