Topic: newbie with small budget, questions

[heyitsmejess]

As I said before talk to Chris Church when you can he makes a great product that many people have raved about his mic systems being an incredible deal for the money.   

im new to this myself.  i was impressed enough with the sound of the church cards that i purchased the setup just today (and missed the great price of 149 buy a matter of an hour)

plus he has answered every question i have had, and been absolutly polite about it (im one of those constant question people).

[bugg100]

I like to do things the hard way I guess. If I can save some money by getting my iPod to work, I'd like to try. For one, it's not really worth selling my iPod; I wouldn't get too much for it. Secondly, I like a good challenge.

I think we'd all implore to to consider not using the ipod. 

Square peg into a round hole is exactly what your doing when you use an ipod for live recording there are many reasons why I agree with Dave here, number one where is the input gain control on the ipod?

Chris

Rockbox is where you will find your input gain on the ipod...  Well documented on rockbox.org and in the online manual there.  Find a complete mic LINE input through the dock connector here:

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/GT-ITALK-PRO

On sale for $19, built in mics, there for you to ignore, and a 3.5 mm connector.  You will need  mics that connect through a 3.5 mm connector as well as a pre-amp or at the least a batterybox.

Just remember that you said you like a challenge....  If you want to go the long way around, search for GreenMachine on google, as this is a simple walkthrough to build mic and batterybox ($30 for parts) mod those instructions with a mod here by Chris Church (4.7k mod in a  recent thread about the GreenMachine article), IF you want to record loud source material.  $19 for the dock interface and rockbox for free and then you start experimenting.

It would be more simple  to buy a preamp and mic set from Church Audio here and the dock interface, forging new ground.  Rockbox is new for this player and results are in no way understood YET.  You still have the preamp/mic to use on a different recorder if you can't get good results from the ipod. 

I use a iRiver h320 and have h140 in shipping.  Only the addition of rockbox make them worthy of use for recording.....  Are the ipod ports of rockbox making it worthy?  Want to be the one who finds out? 

Report your findings here good or bad, and ask questions when you need help. But don't give up until you tried your ipod first. 

Joe

[bugg100]

Point taken. I had nearly forgotten about the battery issue. Ok, I'll get my funds in order and buy some gear. The iriver really does sound nice.
[/quote]

ALL li-ion baterries die and are all currently are on a downward spiral [cue NIN]. If you get an iRiver you will have to replace the battery very soon.  just like you MIGHT have to replace your ipod battery. 

How do I know?  Want to hear several 3 minute snippets of my only Tom Waits show?  New battery would make the last sentence read differently.....

[gazoombo]

Rockbox is where you will find your input gain on the ipod...  Well documented on rockbox.org and in the online manual there.  Find a complete mic LINE input through the dock connector here:

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/GT-ITALK-PRO

On sale for $19, built in mics, there for you to ignore, and a 3.5 mm connector.  You will need  mics that connect through a 3.5 mm connector as well as a pre-amp or at the least a batterybox.

Just remember that you said you like a challenge....  If you want to go the long way around, search for GreenMachine on google, as this is a simple walkthrough to build mic and batterybox ($30 for parts) mod those instructions with a mod here by Chris Church (4.7k mod in a  recent thread about the GreenMachine article), IF you want to record loud source material.  $19 for the dock interface and rockbox for free and then you start experimenting.

It would be more simple  to buy a preamp and mic set from Church Audio here and the dock interface, forging new ground.  Rockbox is new for this player and results are in no way understood YET.  You still have the preamp/mic to use on a different recorder if you can't get good results from the ipod. 

I use a iRiver h320 and have h140 in shipping.  Only the addition of rockbox make them worthy of use for recording.....  Are the ipod ports of rockbox making it worthy?  Want to be the one who finds out? 

Report your findings here good or bad, and ask questions when you need help. But don't give up until you tried your ipod first. 

Joe

Thanks for the tip Joe. I've already placed a bid on a iHP-120 on Ebay, but for $20, it's worth experimenting with that dock connector too. Being the one who finds out whether the iPod can feasibly be used for taping is exactly what I'd like to do. At the same time, I agree that getting bad results could turn me off from trying other things, so I'm going to get the iRiver and try both ways. Now I just need to talk to Chris about a mic/pre setup.

[Carrera2]

If you are heading off into the iRiver direction, you might consider some of the H110s and H115s being sold.  It seems that the H120s and H140s are commanding a premium.  I have a rockboxed H120 that I like and use a lot with professional grade mics.  I also have an H115 as a backup recorder.

See: http://tinyurl.com/288yrc

edit:  That 10 gig iRiver went for $52+15 in postage.  Three month warranty plus option to purchase extended warranty from third party provider (like $5 for 2 years.)  The iRivers I have bought from this guy have looked virtually new and come with new batteries installed.

No affiliation, BTW.

[SmokinJoe]

There is an older Nomad Jukebox in the yard sale for $60 shipped.   I have a "similar" Jukebox, so I think my comments are correct.  This one has 6Gb, which will hold 9 hours of recording.  It sounds small, so it's enough for any normal concert.  Most of us use 2Gb flash cards.

One advantage to the Jukebox is they run off 4 AA NiMH rechargable batteries.  You could keep spare batteries in you pocket and swap at set break.  The meters are decent, probably a little better than a JB3.  The line in has a 10 step gain I believe.  Run it low enough to avoid clipping, because clipping will sounds static-cy, and you don't want that.  If in doubt, run a bit low, and boost it at home.

I prefer a Rockboxed iRiver, like most people here, but if you don't want to spend that much, my gut feeling is that this Jukebox a much better recorder than the ipod.

Edit.... that yardsale Jukebox was $60... now is bundled with some other stuff for $100.  Not my sale... just an observation of a possible solution.

[gazoombo]

I have another question. This time regarding microphones. A lot of people have been recommending those Church Audio cards, but I read somewhere else on the boards that cards are better suited for high SPL recording. I'd like to be able to record quieter shows, like acoustic house shows, or shows with minimal amplification. I don't expect to use this rig for any really large shows (Phish et al.) What should I be looking for? I heard binaurals with bass rolloff recommended. How should the bass rolloff be set?

[dean]

Good point.  It still depends on how you intend to set up at a given show, however.  If most of the time you're going to be setting up on stage or at stage lip, go with the CSBs in this scenario.  However, if your choices will be stage lip or in the audience, then I'd go with the Church cards.

So Church mics can still work for your purposes unless you'll actually be setting up on stage right next to the artists.  But if not you'll generally have more range - if you want to record a high spl show, you can.  Plus you'll get great results with them setting up at stage lip.

The beauty is, the choice you need to make is a really nice problem to have.  Additionally, at the price range you've got and the price range of these mics, you should be able to pick up both pairs of mics within the next year or so.  Then you can do some great comparisons of how the two types of mics differ in any given situation and you'll learn a whole bunch of recording fundamentals that will serve you well in the moment and down the road, when you're ready to unload a ton of cash on different mics, pre's, a/d's, higher bit rate recorders, etc...

I do a ton of on stage and stage lip recordings (prolly 60-70% of everything I record, actually), so once you've got your gear, if you're going to be in that situation, feel free to PM me for specific information.  Glad to help.   

[Church-Audio]

I have another question. This time regarding microphones. A lot of people have been recommending those Church Audio cards, but I read somewhere else on the boards that cards are better suited for high SPL recording. I'd like to be able to record quieter shows, like acoustic house shows, or shows with minimal amplification. I don't expect to use this rig for any really large shows (Phish et al.) What should I be looking for? I heard binaurals with bass rolloff recommended. How should the bass rolloff be set?

Actually I have a new version of my 9100 for $199 - a new pair of three wire cards same mics but I now have the ability to turn the mod off for very quiet shows and turn my 4.7k mod on for loud shows this gives you an additional 12.5 db of gain + the 20db from my preamp thats 32.5db of gain + what ever your recorder has built in. The mics cost $130 because of the three wire mini xlr connectors.

Chris

[gazoombo]

I have another question. This time regarding microphones. A lot of people have been recommending those Church Audio cards, but I read somewhere else on the boards that cards are better suited for high SPL recording. I'd like to be able to record quieter shows, like acoustic house shows, or shows with minimal amplification. I don't expect to use this rig for any really large shows (Phish et al.) What should I be looking for? I heard binaurals with bass rolloff recommended. How should the bass rolloff be set?

Actually I have a new version of my 9100 for $199 - a new pair of three wire cards same mics but I now have the ability to turn the mod off for very quiet shows and turn my 4.7k mod on for loud shows this gives you an additional 12.5 db of gain + the 20db from my preamp thats 32.5db of gain + what ever your recorder has built in. The mics cost $130 because of the three wire mini xlr connectors.

Chris

This sounds like exactly what I want, but I don't think I can afford it just yet. I think I'll have to go with the 9000 + cards package for now. I'll try to send payment today.

[dean]

This sounds like exactly what I want, but I don't think I can afford it just yet. I think I'll have to go with the 9000 + cards package for now. I'll try to send payment today.

You'll have a lot more fun experimenting once you scratch up the dough for a second pair of mics.  Chris' mics will treat you right in the meantime, to boot. 

Welcome to the universe of taping, gazoombo.  You're going to love it, and based on what you've posted so far, you're a natural to it.  Have fun!   

[gazoombo]

Thanks everyone for your helpful responses. I really feel welcomed here, and I look forward to some great taping experiences. In case anyone was wondering, paramnesiac is the one who referred me here after I asked him for some advice about getting started taping. I'm glad he did; what a great place!