Topic: Denecke PS2

[ts]

Anyone doing the 3.5mm mod to these? I see Sound Pros no longer offers it. A buddy needs one for Busman BSC1>>M10. How much did the PS2 mod cost? I'm also suggesting TinyBoxes or a SD USB Pre. He's on a tight budget. Thanks!

[Ultfris101]

No experience with PS2 or the mod, but I can't say enough good things about a tinybox. If it's in budget and he's looking for a small rig it pairs really well with an M10. Seems like it could be perfect for this scenario.

And beware of the SD USB Pre versions prior to version 2. Anything going for less than about $650 on ebay is NOT something he probably wants. Pay close attention to the version. They only work when connected to a computer and it must be a computer running a 32 bit OS like Windows XP.

I'm guessing that version 2 is out of his price range but it's a great Pre and runs in standalone mode as well as connected to a computer.

[ts]

No experience with PS2 or the mod, but I can't say enough good things about a tinybox. If it's in budget and he's looking for a small rig it pairs really well with an M10. Seems like it could be perfect for this scenario.

And beware of the SD USB Pre versions prior to version 2. Anything going for less than about $650 on ebay is NOT something he probably wants. Pay close attention to the version. They only work when connected to a computer and it must be a computer running a 32 bit OS like Windows XP.

I'm guessing that version 2 is out of his price range but it's a great Pre and runs in standalone mode as well as connected to a computer.

Thanks for the heads up on the USB Pre. Had no idea. He really needs a 48V TB.

[Fried Chicken Boy]

If he doesn't require the computer interface of a USBPre, tell him to look into the original Sound Devices MixPre (not the "-D" version) or Shure FP24.  Bomb-proof, very transparent, and very portable.  Don't know how tight your friend's budget is (or how much Tinyboxes cost nowadays; Jon makes an excellent product, too) but the used prices on these older preamps have dropped significantly. 

[nameloc01]

Anyone doing the 3.5mm mod to these? I see Sound Pros no longer offers it. A buddy needs one for Busman BSC1>>M10. How much did the PS2 mod cost? I'm also suggesting TinyBoxes or a SD USB Pre. He's on a tight budget. Thanks!

SoundPros sold the PS2s w/o the mod for $150 and with for $199 (if I'm remembering correctly, or that is what it was in 07' when I got mine)

[weroflu]

I did a hack job 3.5mm cable tail. If you have a good desoldering tool it would be easier.

On a side note I'm wondering if anyone has been able to put a preamp circuit in there.

[ScoobieKW]

I considered modding mine, then was talked into leaving it stock. I built a 2)FXL to 1/8" mini adapter cable instead.

[ts]

I considered modding mine, then was talked into leaving it stock. I built a 2)FXL to 1/8" mini adapter cable instead.

Can you give more detail on the cable? Thanks.

[ScoobieKW]

Standard balanced to unbalanced wiring.

XLR (Left)
Pin 1 - Ground
Pin 2 - Red
Pin 3 - Ground (short jumper to pin 1)

XLR (Right)
Pin 1 Ground
Pin 2 - Black
Pin 3 - Ground (short jumper to pin 1)

1/8" Tip Ring Sleeve connector
Tip - Red
Ring - Black
Sleeve - Ground

You can find pre-built at many music stores, or you can have one of our TS.com cable builders help you out if needed.

[ts]

Standard balanced to unbalanced wiring.

XLR (Left)
Pin 1 - Ground
Pin 2 - Red
Pin 3 - Ground (short jumper to pin 1)

XLR (Right)
Pin 1 Ground
Pin 2 - Black
Pin 3 - Ground (short jumper to pin 1)

1/8" Tip Ring Sleeve connector
Tip - Red
Ring - Black
Sleeve - Ground

You can find pre-built at many music stores, or you can have one of our TS.com cable builders help you out if needed.

So all I need is a standard off the shelf dual female XLR>3.5mm? Since you have BSC1's, I'll assume an off the shelf cable works.

[ScoobieKW]

So all I need is a standard off the shelf dual female XLR>3.5mm? Since you have BSC1's, I'll assume an off the shelf cable works.

Correct, been running this setup for 3 years with my Avantone CK-1s and Busman BSC1 mics.

In a pinch, you can use FRCA to FXLR adapters and an 1/8" to dual RCA cable.

[Fried Chicken Boy]

Correct, been running this setup for 3 years with my Avantone CK-1s and Busman BSC1 mics.

In a pinch, you can use FRCA to FXLR adapters and an 1/8" to dual RCA cable.

On average, about how much runtime do you get off a fresh battery on the PS2, Scoobie?  TIA.

[danny3]

My PS2 hasn't been in use for a good while, but I will be using it soon with my third rig at a multi-stage festival. Problems can occur with some mics when you output to an unbalanced feed from the PS2.
I was looking back to an older thread (linked below) before I saw this one and remembered that I wanted to get these: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/844682-REG/Energy_Transformation_Systems_PA912_PA912_2_CH_DSLR_AUDIO.html They are coming tomorrow; I will report back after using them.

At outdoor shows without electricity I used to run Samson CO2 mics > PS2 > DR-2d. Frequently I would get some distortion/noise that I couldn't explain. (Some home testing led me to suspect that the recorder was in too close proximity to my battery pack.)
Also, the cable I was using - female xlr to mini -  was very long, which may have played into my issues.

I don't recall the run time I would get powering the PS2 with rechargeable 9v batteries, but if you are doing long runs (like an all day festival) I would recommend an external battery pack. I plan to use a Naztech PB1500 to power both the PS2 (with a Gakable) and a DR-2d via a Gakcable (usb out to DR-2d power in.)

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=165258.0

update: I've found that constant noise is recorded when running both the PS-2 and recorder (DR-2d) off the same battery. Records fine when I power each with a separate battery.
              Not certain if I really need it, but the 2 channel balun cable I linked works well. Although it is pretty heavy duty and not too flexible. 

[ScoobieKW]

Correct, been running this setup for 3 years with my Avantone CK-1s and Busman BSC1 mics.

In a pinch, you can use FRCA to FXLR adapters and an 1/8" to dual RCA cable.

On average, about how much runtime do you get off a fresh battery on the PS2, Scoobie?  TIA.

off a fresh 9v alkaline 4-5 hours, with an easy hour after the red light goes on, but...

I use an RC battery 1800mAH and can go for quite a bit longer. The PS2 has a 1/8" Tip Sleeve jack to take an external battery pack.
I carry a 9v as a backup.

[ts]

Probably should have mentioned this earlier but this is for a permanent setup on a baby grand so he will be using an ac adapter. Also the reason why he doesn't want a full blown pre. He just needs 48V phantom. I thought at $127 from B&H, the PS2 would be the best solution, plus a few extra bucks for a cable and ac adapter.

[ScoobieKW]

AC adapter just as easy. The PS-2 will take a range of 7-22V power with 500 mA draw.
Cut the standard tip off, and replace with 1/8" TS connector.

[ScoobieKW]

With access to AC a standard preamp is an inexpensive and better option (balanced input, low input noise, no worries about gain/headroom, etc.)  I'd look for a lightly used M-Audio DMP3, which is sadly discontinued--small standalone stereo preamps have mostly gone away in favor USB interfaces.

A modded Edirol UA-5 also works as a 2 channel standalone preamp.

[DSatz]

I'm sorry to sound like a broken record (if you know what that is), but this question isn't as simple as people think. If you wire the outputs of a phantom power supply the way it's been suggested, one of four things will occur:

[1] It'll all work just fine.
[2] It will work OK up to a given loudness level, but a different wiring scheme would have given you lower distortion and significantly better headroom.
[3] You'll get no signal except for a tiny bit of crosstalk/leakage.
[4] You may damage your microphones.

Which outcome you get will depend on the particular output circuit of your microphones. I've experienced [1] through [3] myself at various times, but [4] is definitely real as well.

Here's the message that I'm trying to deliver; people, please listen up: Balanced microphone inputs follow one (professional) standard while unbalanced microphone inputs follow another, completely different (consumer) standard. It's not just different connectors; the impedances, voltage levels and signal format all differ between the two realms.

What fools a lot of people is the fact that connecting unbalanced (consumer) signals to (professional) balanced inputs is usually pretty easy; a simple adapter will usually work well enough as long as the balanced input is sensitive enough. But the reverse is not true. Knowing how to go from balanced to unbalanced requires you to know the equipment that's providing the balanced signal. Microphone manufacturers use several different types of output circuit, which vary as to which pin is (or pins are) actively driven, and as to what will happen if one or another signal pin is connected to ground or is left "hanging" (unconnected).

Moral of the story: Check the manual; if it doesn't say how to connect the microphone to an unbalanced input (or if there's no manual), ask the manufacturer.  Don't guess. Sometimes the same manufacturer makes microphones that require different wiring schemes for unbalancing their signals.

--best regards

[ScoobieKW]

I'm sorry to sound like a broken record (if you know what that is) but: If you wire the PS-2's outputs the way it's been suggested, one of four things will occur:

[1] It'll all work just fine.
[2] It will work OK up to a given loudness level, but a different wiring scheme would have given you lower distortion and better headroom.
[3] You'll get no signal except for a tiny bit of crosstalk/leakage.
[4] You may damage your microphones.

Which one you get will depend on the particular microphones that you're using. I've experienced [1] through [3] myself at various times, but [4] is definitely real as well.

Here's the message that I'm trying to deliver; people, please listen up: Balanced microphone inputs follow one (professional) standard while unbalanced microphone inputs follow another, completely different (consumer) standard. It's not just different connectors; the impedances, voltage levels and signal format all differ between the two realms.

In most cases, connecting unbalanced (consumer) sources to (professional) balanced inputs is pretty easy, and general formulas tend to work pretty well in that situation if the balanced input is sensitive enough. But the reverse is not true. Connecting balanced microphones (or balanced line-level equipment) to unbalanced inputs without transformers requires a knowledge of the particular characteristics of whatever equipment is providing the balanced signal.

Microphone manufacturers use several different types of output circuit, which vary as to which pin is (or pins are) actively driven, and what happens when one signal pin is connected to ground. Always check the manual for the particular type of microphone. If it doesn't say how to connect the microphone to an unbalanced input, ask the manufacturer (and don't guess based on some other model; the same manufacturer can very well make microphones that have different requirements).

--best regards

In this case, the original poster has already identified that his mics are in the known good category. (I inferred that they were BSC1s).

With the additional information provided about power options, I agree that a standalone preamp with balanced inputs and outputs is a much better alternative.

[DSatz]

ScoobieKW, yes, now that I look back through the thread with a fine-tooth comb, I see that your signature mentions the same Busman microphone type that the original poster had asked about. So if you know for a fact that the pin 3 -> pin 1 bridge arrangement is right for that microphone, great, and I'm sorry if it looked as if I was criticizing you for the advice that you gave.

But I still think it needs to be made clear that all solutions to this problem are individual, case-by-case, microphone-model-by-microphone-model solutions. Many people make the naïve assumption that there's got to be a standard adapter or wiring scheme for going from balanced to unbalanced. That assumption is not only wrong, but can cost you the success of your recordings, or more, and it's one of several things that I feel obliged to point out on this board from time to time because they keep coming up.

Input transformers used to be the universal solution--giving the microphones the balanced load that they expect, which is one of the best solutions for suppressing noise from interference (professional audio equipment is balanced for a reason!). But then one fairly well-known manufacturer came out with microphones that wouldn't work if there was a transformer at the input of the preamp, so even that solution is no longer applicable to all cases. Even setting that one, now-discontinued series of microphones aside, good input transformers are neither small nor cheap, so they're not everyone's first choice. Plus around here, people seem to think that transformers inevitably color the sound (but precisely what I mean by "good" transformers is that they don't).

--best regards

[2manyrocks]

Probably should have mentioned this earlier but this is for a permanent setup on a baby grand so he will be using an ac adapter. Also the reason why he doesn't want a full blown pre. He just needs 48V phantom. I thought at $127 from B&H, the PS2 would be the best solution, plus a few extra bucks for a cable and ac adapter.

The easiest solution in this price range for a fixed install is a DMP3 preamp as suggested or maybe a small Mackie 2 channel soundboard or a used Symetrix SX202.  (one in YS right now-no affiliation with the seller.)

[spyder9]

Great thread.  I have a modded PS-2 w/ the 3.5mm cable for a few years now.  Fantastic mod done by someone here on TS.  I can't remember who, but I bought it from him in the Yard.  Once you get a modded PS-2, they're hard to get rid of.  So handy and dirt cheap when you need a small rig quickly.     

I used the MIC IN always on the following with great success :  Tascam DR-1, Sony PCM- M10, and Edirol R09HR       Phantom is king!

Example:  AKG C568EB > Denecke PS-2 (modded) > Tascam DR-1

https://archive.org/details/furthur2010-02-06.akg568.spyder9.106769.flac16