Topic: V3 (< V3497) digital outputs out of phase relative to analog outputs

[RebelRebel]

I get wavforms like that all the time with the stuff I record..(classical)...I dont worry about it anymore. Like Brian said, if it sounds right, it is right, "looks" aside.

Most "prosumer" DC offset removal tools not only remove DC offset but remove good stuff too, and cause the audio to suffer.  a lot of instruments that involve force ( our breath) going largely in one direction to produce sound end up producing waveforms that look screwed up(ie skewed in one direction). (trumpet, trombone, oboe)but in all actuality are perfectly normal.

i'll never forget the first time i tracked a trumpet.  i freaked out when i saw the waveforms as i thought something was wrong.  weirdest looking waveforms ever.

thanks for the input on the DC offset.

Ah, man! Teddy and Brian Sax, where were you guys when I needed you most? You could have cleared up my recent problem in a second with those quotes. I thought my pre was screwed, until I did some more research and learned it wasn't my pre at all. LOL! 

See this thread here for what I'm talking about:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=60987.0

-- Taint

[BayTaynt3d]

Yeah, the pre is fine, Busman Mod +. He was nice enough to offer up to look at it, but after mastering the recording more, especially the main sets, it became very clear that it only happened when a horn was "blasting," or "muted". I didn't notice that at first, but did after spending some quality time with the recording. It was totally predictable, and sometimes it was on the plus side and sometimes the minus side (this was a 10+ -piece big band), which still seems a bit odd, but that might have been a FOH issue between the mics/pres the FOH was using? Not sure, but it all sounded fine. Anyway, after some searching, I learned that asymmetircal waveforms are totally normal for horns. Funny thing is, the artists I asked had no clue WTF I was talking about or even asking. Well, now I know, but on that first set, I clipped the hell out of the one side. Oh well, live and learn.

[Brian Skalinder]

It seems the V3 isn't the only ADC to have this issue.  From the AD2K manual:

PLEASE NOTE: An internal absolute polarity inversion error was discovered some time after the creation of the AD2402-96/AD2K+. The following table is revised from the original and should be used instead of the original table.

[F.O.Bean]

thats crazy, i thought my matrix's would NEVER line up correctly, after about 10 mins, they be off a millisecond or so 

[F.O.Bean]

just emailed jamie tho, i want this resolved quickly

[Brian Skalinder]

thats crazy, i thought my matrix's would NEVER line up correctly, after about 10 mins, they be off a millisecond or so 

Bean - the reversed polarity doesn't affect your clock drift, only your relative phase.  Even after getting the reversed polarity fixed, you'll still have clock drift across sources using two different ADCs, unless you sync the word clocks.

[JasonSobel]

just thought that I'd say that, as usual, Grace Design's customer service was top notch, and they fixed my V3 very quickly and got it back out to me.  total time I didn't have it was 10 days, and 8 of those days were for shipping to/from

[OFOTD]

Bean - the reversed polarity doesn't affect your clock drift, only your relative phase.  Even after getting the reversed polarity fixed, you'll still have clock drift across sources using two different ADCs, unless you sync the word clocks.

No doubt.  The drift has no relation to the the inverted polarity.  Syncing word clocks is the only way to cure the drift problem.  Also you should be lucky to only have a millisecond or two off.  Even two identical V3's or two identical AD2k's would not necessarily match up with one another.  Nature of the beast.

And remember that everyone LOVED the sound of the V3 and the AD2k before anyone knew of the problem so it tells me that while a problem has existed it has not been significant enough to greatly affect the sound or at least one's perception of the sound.

[F.O.Bean]

gotcha guys, i undertsnad what yourte saying

on another note, as stated, grace is TOP-NOTCH service, jamie emailed me back 2.5 hrs after my initial email to him giving me the rma link and just saying whats up

grace rules, and i'll be shipping mine back asap

[Simp-Dawg]

i'll be taking mine over this week once i call/email jamie.  didn't see this till just now!  i don't need any help from the equipment to fuck up recordings, so i'm only taking mine over to be on the safe side.  it's not a huge deal to me.  i've loved the sound up till now and this doesn't change it for me.

[Brian Skalinder]

Someone should do a side by side comp to see if anyone can even detect the fix.

No side-by-side comp necessary.  Just invert the waveform in an audio editor, save as a new file, and listen to the original v. the inverted file.

[PG]

Someone should do a side by side comp to see if anyone can even detect the fix.

No side-by-side comp necessary.  Just invert the waveform in an audio editor, save as a new file, and listen to the original v. the inverted file.

Oh yeah. Brain not working this morning...

[johnw]

Sent mine out on 5/5 by FedEx ground and got it back yesterday. Thanks Grace 

[cleantone]

Finally got this done! They cleaned the hell out of it too. Fixed my ANSR LED circuit too. Unfortunatly I think it may have been dropped as well. There is a big ding on a corner that I do not recall having before. Good thing this is built like a tank.

[Brian Skalinder]

Finally got this done! They cleaned the hell out of it too. Fixed my ANSR LED circuit too. Unfortunatly I think it may have been dropped as well. There is a big ding on a corner that I do not recall having before. Good thing this is built like a tank.

Perhaps you didn't see the dent before through all the crud.