Topic: BusmanR4 VS. Stock R4

[Busman Audio]

Here is a comparison.

http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?p=423190&torr=true

[Ryan Sims]

Thank you sir.  I look forward to hearing this.

[mmmatt]

sorry I'm jumping on this so late.  can somebody open their torrent again?  I am only part way done.

thanks

matt

[mmmatt]

rockin now!!!  thatnks to whomever jumped back in for me!!

Matt

[mmmatt]

Chris,
What configs were used on the mics?  There is a huge differnce in the soundstage/image.  almost like NOS (stock) vs DIN (bm).  It is hard to put my finger on it, partly because the sources aren't similarly ballanced l/r but the stock source feels like a slightly larger spread to me, and seems to oscelate some.  Either that or your mods really seem to have a positive impact on the soundstage!  The bm soundstage felt taller too.  Like jeff's voice was about 10 deg higher with the mod... odd comment, I know.
     I thought your mod really brought thoes 140's to life.  Almost a presence bump, but most likely just the neumann's as they are supposed to be.  Same with the low end.  More detail and more meat with your mod.  Both are a little sloppy but for a section recording either isn't too bad really in that regard.  The strings seems to sparkle more with your mod.  A much more realistic responce from the crowd.  You can more easily position cheers and whistles, and the voices seem more clear with your mod.  Seems to be a lot more "air" in the recording too.  Did your mod produce a higher frequency responce?

Overall... night and day Chris.  You did a really nice job!  Makes me regret even MORE selling my r4.  If these are identical configs, then I'm blown away.

Matt

[Shawn]

the difference in the vocals is jaw-dropping.

[poorlyconditioned]

rockin now!!!  thatnks to whomever jumped back in for me!!

Matt

Can someone (?) please seed again?  I need to get this...

Thanks,
  Richard

[bgalizio]

I posted this in the other comp thread... the busman R-4 sample is at 24bit, while the stock is at 16bit. I don't think it's valid to compare like that.

[Ryan Sims]

rockin now!!!  thatnks to whomever jumped back in for me!!

Matt

Can someone (?) please seed again?  I need to get this...

Thanks,
  Richard

I have it open if you didn't get it yet. 

I posted this in the other comp thread... the busman R-4 sample is at 24bit, while the stock is at 16bit. I don't think it's valid to compare like that.

I also noticed some just funkiness between the two sources on playback.  The stock source is very high in the left channel, while the Busman source is very high in the right, like a total channel reversal.  I also wonder about the whole 24 bit thing, considering both of the files are very nearly the same size, and the Busman file is actually smaller.  My computer does also see it as a 24 bit file, but I wonder what really is going on.

[mmmatt]

I didn't catch the 24 bit vs 16 when I reviewed... sorry about that guys.  I really just used my ears.  They are both still 44.1  though.  I'm thinking there is a much greater difference than 24 vs 16 regardless.  I also noted the ballance difference, but for me it is a matter of extending my arm about 18" and turning the ballance knob on my system so nbd.  I would have really liked to see him use a mic splitter also for a true direct comp.  I'm 99% sure that my thoughts would be about the same anyways.  The yonder boys also had a mini-trainwreck in that track too so I was a little surprised he picked that song, although the intro is very revealing.  I'm going to normal both channels of each and convert and then compare again.  It has always been my opinion that a 16bit source is at it's best when recorded in 16 bit, so we'll see if some post processing abuse can make this competition a little more neck and neck.

Matt

[mmmatt]

yeah... this comp isn't so good... looking at the wav's makes me think the left channel mic on the stock source is having some issues.  If you look at the wav form on the stock source at 3:02 - 3:12 you can see that the right chanel responded with a lot more dynamics to the heavy bass than the right chanel did.  On the busman source it is very similar left to right.  Maybe the stock pre's aren't very consistant (I never noticed anything like that with mine) but most likely it is the mic IMO.  Chris I think you should split the signal from one pair of  mics to both r-4s and do it right.  Here again I doubt my opinion will change but if that left chan mic on the stock source is bunk, then that would make a big difference.  That might also account for the oscelation I'm hearing.

Matt

[bgalizio]

yeah... this comp isn't so good... looking at the wav's makes me think the left channel mic on the stock source is having some issues.  If you look at the wav form on the stock source at 3:02 - 3:12 you can see that the right chanel responded with a lot more dynamics to the heavy bass than the right chanel did.  On the busman source it is very similar left to right.  Maybe the stock pre's aren't very consistant (I never noticed anything like that with mine) but most likely it is the mic IMO.  Chris I think you should split the signal from one pair of  mics to both r-4s and do it right.  Here again I doubt my opinion will change but if that left chan mic on the stock source is bunk, then that would make a big difference.  That might also account for the oscelation I'm hearing.

Matt

Agreed. I noticed this too. A true comp (which we're all waiting for!) would be splitting the mic signal. The same processing would need to be done to each file (ie: 24bit or 16bit with the same dithering scheme). I'd like to hear the difference at 24bit recorded, 16bit dithered, and 16bit recorded if at all possible.

[mmmatt]

Chris,
If this is a pain to get done, I would suggest contacting brian ska and send the unit out to him.  Brian is the comp King and he has an OADE mod r4 that would be a nice comp also... I think he has now had the mod done??? .  There are a lot of trustworthy r4 owners on this board who would be willing also I'm sure.  Just a suggestion incase you are really busy.  Not to imply you would ever fudge but a impartial 3rd party would be the ultimate in validity.  No question in my mind still that your mods are a HUGE improvement BTW.

matt

[bgalizio]

No question in my mind still that your mods are a HUGE improvement BTW.

matt

Seconded. If this is anything like the UA-5 mod difference, then we're in great hands!

[Busman Audio]

Hey guys I have been out of town for a few days but to clarify.

Oops on forgetting the dither but it won't make THAT much of a difference. These were both recorded at 24 bit and as stated pretty much the exact same location and same config. I will try to get some other comps from the weekend. We ran everything for Fri and Sat to do the comps so I have a lot more I can release.


On another note wait until you hear my 4 mic mix with split ADK stpros 15' and 140s ORTF in the center. WOW I think I will have a hard time ever running just 2 channels from now on.

If I can get some time that I don't need the R4 for a while I would be willing to send it to Brain Skalinder if he wants to run comps. I can assure you there is no doctoring done for these though.