Topic: MBHOs and preamp combo questions

[stevetoney]

These questions are for the MBHO owners or former owners out there.  As soon as they arrive, I'll be the owner of a pair of MBHO-603a actives thanks to deadveg on this list.  He's mentioned that the Sound Devices MP2 is the preamp to go with and I notice that the MBHO-603a > MP2 combo is very popular with the MBHO owners that have posted shows on archive.org.  But but I blew my budget for the next little while on getting the mics, so have snagged a DIY digimod UA-5 and Nomad JB-3 from tradja to start out with. 

So first question is...what I can expect with the UA-5 in combination with these mics versus a higher end preamp?  What sonic differences will there be?

With all the talk about how great the warm mod UA-5 is, was it a waste to bother with the DIY digimod UA-5 for about half the price? 

I'm also wondering, in the future assuming I do upgrade the preamp when money comes available (and depending on what you experienced folks advise), should I consider keeping the UA-5 just to supply phantom power for the mics or is there a downside to using the UA-5 in front of a higher end preamp that maybe doesn't supply phantom power?  (Course it's probably a moot point since most of the better preamps do also supply phantom power.)

Thanks for any advice you can provide.

Steve

[stirinthesauce]

you probably would not want to run the ua-5 in front of another pre.  The ua-5 doesn't have a true analog pass through.  There are analog outs, but it goes through the a>d stage and then back to d>a stage.

[Teen Age Riot]

The reason why many people (incl. myself) like the MP2 as a preamp for the MBHOs is this: It has "warm" characteristics which means it slightly over-emphasizes the lower frequencies and tames the high end a bit. The MBHO KA200N cardioid caps sound rather bright and have rolled-off low end, so the mics and the preamp work together nicely.

I assume the stock UA5 would sound a little too neutral/transparent for the MBHOs. The warm mod would be the way to go if you want to keep the UA5, I guess, but I've never used that combo, so take this with a grain of salt. You could also get an MP2 and use the UA5 as A/D converter. Not sure if it's worth carrying the extra box though. Let your ears decide.

In any case, the MP2 is just a really good box for field recording, and you won't regret getting one in the long run. It's relatively small, built like a tank, easy to use, and it runs on AAs.

I use the MBHO cards and the MP2 into and Edirol R09, and I love the combo. Great sounding, very rugged, and stealthy (if required). 
 

[Brian Skalinder]

FWIW, I'm not a fan of the MP2, even when I ran MBHOs.  But we all have different ears.

You already have the UA5, so stick with it.  Use it.  Listen to the results.  Decide what you do and/or do not like about its sound.  Then once you've built an upgrade budget, decide what gear to move to based on your experiences, what sonic characteristics you like in your MBHO > UA5 setup, which you don't, and evaluate the options within your budget.

[Dutchman1101]

These questions are for the MBHO owners or former owners out there.  As soon as they arrive, I'll be the owner of a pair of MBHO-603a actives thanks to deadveg on this list.  He's mentioned that the Sound Devices MP2 is the preamp to go with and I notice that the MBHO-603a > MP2 combo is very popular with the MBHO owners that have posted shows on archive.org.  But but I blew my budget for the next little while on getting the mics, so have snagged a DIY digimod UA-5 and Nomad JB-3 from tradja to start out with. 

So first question is...what I can expect with the UA-5 in combination with these mics versus a higher end preamp?  What sonic differences will there be?

With all the talk about how great the warm mod UA-5 is, was it a waste to bother with the DIY digimod UA-5 for about half the price? 

I'm also wondering, in the future assuming I do upgrade the preamp when money comes available (and depending on what you experienced folks advise), should I consider keeping the UA-5 just to supply phantom power for the mics or is there a downside to using the UA-5 in front of a higher end preamp that maybe doesn't supply phantom power?  (Course it's probably a moot point since most of the better preamps do also supply phantom power.)

Thanks for any advice you can provide.

Steve

I got your PM Steve. I personally have never tried the MP2, and have only run the MBHO's with the m148 witch is a transformer based pre like the MP2 and is quite warm. IMO this is a great combo. The 148 really tames the harsh highs of the HO's and really cleans them up. I can definitely see myself sticking with them for a while.

I would just do some testing and see what you like. You will find out what you like eventually. Good luck and +T.

Harrison

[OOK]

I love the sound of Ho's with the MP2, UA5W-mod and the minime...but trust your ears...
I see some people use a V3.  I am not crazy about that combo

I would love to hear the sound of a minimp with the HO's.  I might actually buy one just to try it.

[stevetoney]

IThe 148 really tames the harsh highs of the HO's and really cleans them up. I can definitely see myself sticking with them for a while.

I would just do some testing and see what you like. You will find out what you like eventually. Good luck and +T.

Harrison

It's obvious that everyone has their own opinions on sound coming through and I guess the sound is what drew me to these microphones.  I'm not really sure how to describe all the different textures that a given mic can provide, but I liked the warmth and depth of these mics...warmth in that the lows seem powerful and clear, and depth in that the sound seems very open and the range of frequencies seem well defined.  I guess I can hear everything that's going on in the tapes that I sampled, where for some mics some of the sounds kinda flat, where the overall sound spectra kinda melds together and there's less space or definition between the different frequencies.  Course, one thing I'm trying to discover is how much of this is the mics and how much is the supporting gear. 

Anyway, having said all of this, the one thing that kinda surprised me about your comment, and granted I'm new to these mics, but I'm surprised that you have commented that the highs can be harsh.  When I was researching, I read a post where someone asked for an opinion on beteen the Peluso and the MBHOs.  The opinions were generally split, but the comments that many offered on the MBHOs seemed to indicate that the lower end of the MBHOs is what bothers alot of people...that the low end come through so powerful and strong, apparently that turns some folks off.  A couple commenters even suggested that the MBHOs are great for acoustic recording, but that's it.

Course, difference of opinion is what makes the world go around, so as everyone says I guess the best answer is to take everyones advice and start trying things myself and see where my ears take me. 

Why do I feel like I'm just at the start of a cool, fun, but matrimonially challenging journey?  There's a little voice inside my head that's telling me...STOP NOW...DON'T GO THERE!!!  Ha!

[Dutchman1101]

The MBHO's are notorious for the harsh high ends. They are very bright mics. That's why a lot of people run them with the MP2 or warm pre's behind them.

[bl6216@yahoo.com]

I would love to hear what the MBHO's would sound like with a Aerco MP2.  I would have to say that I only ran them with a w-UA5 and a SD722 and love the sound of the SD722 the best so far.

-Brian

[stevetoney]

"We're the first generation that's really capable of saving this music forever. Now is the time because we finally have the digital technology that allows us to preserve it indefinitely. It's also the critical time to do this because the older recordings are really deteriorating. It's an opportunity and it's also a serious responsibility, future generations will hold us responsible for what we do or do not do as far as preserving these treasures." -- Mickey Hart

-Brian

I quoted your quote Brian.  I love this perspective coming from Mickey Hart.  I have to agree with him totally, but of course I'm biased.  But I do find it a socially redeeming hobby and although I'm sure this has been discussed so much in the past, just think if recording technology had been available back when Bach and Beethoven were around.  I doubt that their commercial and copyright needs would have taken precedence over the simple need to get the music on tape for historical purposes.  That's not to disregard commerical and copyrights of the parties that own them, because those must be respected by law, but to assert that there are also legimate historical reasons for getting live performances on tape.

Sorry, I changed the focus of this thread with this message, but since I'm quite new to being an avid reader was struck by the significance of the quote in your signature, Brian, and felt the need to comment.

[dkarDaGobert]

Hi

I´m gonna buy the 603A/200Ns, too.
Is someone using a 603A -> Mic2496 -> MT2496 combination and can say me how it sounds?

[OOK]

Hi

I´m gonna buy the 603A/200Ns, too.
Is someone using a 603A -> Mic2496 -> MT2496 combination and can say me how it sounds?

I would go 648A insted of 603a.  A little cheaper they sound the same to my ears......

[OFOTD]

Just to echo some of the above comments.  When I ran the MBHO's I ran a V2 then a V3 with it.  Bad idea.  Highs were Tommy Chong high and the lows were a little off.  When I ran straight into a DAP1 I seemed to like the results a bit better so go figure.

The MP2 is a fine piece of gear at a great price and sounds great with those mics.

[Teen Age Riot]

I would go 648A insted of 603a.  A little cheaper they sound the same to my ears......

True, but with the 648A's you are not as flexible because the cables are attached to them permanetly. With the 603A's, you can use whatever mini xlr cable you want. This comes in handy when do both stealth and open. (I have three sets of cables, 1m, 5m, and 20m.)

[caymanreview]

when i had my mbho's i ran them primarily with a V3, possibly only with a v3 i cant remember.

i agree with OFOTD basically about the mbho > v3 sound. but at the same time my opinion is a little off no matter what, as i dont believe ive ever heard one of my mbho > v3 tapes on a really nice playback system. ive only heard them on a meager system at best, and i was happy with them

i think they would sound great with a wmod ua5, or minime or mini-mp > minime would probably sound really great

ive been missing my mbho's alot lately, and am on the verge of putting together another rig and i believe im gonna go straight for the mbho's!

[stevetoney]

Over the last couple of nights, I've of course been watching this thread closely so that I can make the best decision possible up front hopefully without spending extra money on a decision that I will regret a couple months later.  Obviously, I appreciate everyone's feedback and if you go back over the threads there is a consistent theme.

****Try everything out yourself and reach your own conclusion based on what your own likes and dislikes are.****

To that end, instead of investing my own money in testing everything, the next best option is to spend some time with existing tapes.  So, I've spent spent at least four or five hours the last couple nights researching this question on Live Music Archive.  My methodology was to download two songs from at least three shows each from all of the most popular MBHO-preamp combinations (six songs from each MBHO-preamp combo).  Then I compared each of three shows to get a general idea what are the specific aural characterisics of each preamp with the 603a's.  Then using at least one of the files that represented the most representative, I compared between the different popular preamps.

I'm at work right now, so I don't want to provide details from memory, but there are a couple of general conclusions I can provide right now.

Conclusion 1)

The combination of the 603a's with a specific preamp had fairly consistent aural characterstics from venue to venue and recording to recording,  In other words, while it's obvious that the venue, mic location, etc has a significant amount to do with the quality of a specific recording, that doesn't necessarily influence all that much the aural characteristics that result from the combination of these mics with a specific preamp.  The general preamp characteristics were fairly consistent from one rig to the next.  (very bright...warmer...not as defined...etc.)

Conclusion 2)

These mics sound quite nice though all of the preamps that I listened to.  So, although I'm new to the world of MBHO's and haven't done a comparison of these mics to other comparable products, based on this listening experience I do have a healthy respect for these mics through most anything you throw at it.  However, there are definite sonic differences that are clearly dependent on which preamp you use.  Based on the consistency I discovered in Conclusion 1 above, there are also some reasonably defined conclusions that can be made about what can be expected in terms of sound resulting from a specific combination.  Knowing what you like in terms of sound, those general conclusions should be able to help hone your preamp focus. 

(FWIW, based on this excercise, I'm pretty sure I now know now what I want to buy.)

When I get home tonight, I'll post the specific thoughts and conclusions that I have on each combination.

Steve

[marc0789]

These questions are for the MBHO owners or former owners out there.  As soon as they arrive, I'll be the owner of a pair of MBHO-603a actives thanks to deadveg on this list.  He's mentioned that the Sound Devices MP2 is the preamp to go with and I notice that the MBHO-603a > MP2 combo is very popular with the MBHO owners that have posted shows on archive.org.  But but I blew my budget for the next little while on getting the mics, so have snagged a DIY digimod UA-5 and Nomad JB-3 from tradja to start out with. 

So first question is...what I can expect with the UA-5 in combination with these mics versus a higher end preamp?  What sonic differences will there be?

With all the talk about how great the warm mod UA-5 is, was it a waste to bother with the DIY digimod UA-5 for about half the price? 

I'm also wondering, in the future assuming I do upgrade the preamp when money comes available (and depending on what you experienced folks advise), should I consider keeping the UA-5 just to supply phantom power for the mics or is there a downside to using the UA-5 in front of a higher end preamp that maybe doesn't supply phantom power?  (Course it's probably a moot point since most of the better preamps do also supply phantom power.)

Thanks for any advice you can provide.

Steve

I got your PM Steve. I personally have never tried the MP2, and have only run the MBHO's with the m148 witch is a transformer based pre like the MP2 and is quite warm. IMO this is a great combo. The 148 really tames the harsh highs of the HO's and really cleans them up. I can definitely see myself sticking with them for a while.

I would just do some testing and see what you like. You will find out what you like eventually. Good luck and +T.

Harrison

I've run the mp-2 quite a bit, but imo it's pretty loose in the low end. I've never run the 148 with them, but I did run the eaa quite a bit, and thought that was a tighter sound, while still warm. I imagine the 148 would sound really nice paired with the bhos.

[OOK]

I would go 648A insted of 603a.  A little cheaper they sound the same to my ears......

True, but with the 648A's you are not as flexible because the cables are attached to them permanetly. With the 603A's, you can use whatever mini xlr cable you want. This comes in handy when do both stealth and open. (I have three sets of cables, 1m, 5m, and 20m.)

I do not know this to be true.  When I was first buying a set they werent like that as far as I knew.  The difference between the 603a and 648a  were that the 603a were transformerless and had a voltage converter so that the mics could accept anything from 12 volts to 48 volts.  The 648a's have a transformer in them and only accept 48 volts. other than that they are the same.

[rodeen]

Hey Steve how the heck are you!  FYI, I owe a large percentage of my Stevie Ray Vaughan collection to Steve Toney!  A class act all the way.  Great to see you on the taperssection.com!

Congrats on the gear, you'll love the HO's.  I agree with Brian.  If you already have a UA-5, use it for a while and figure out what you like.  They are a terrific value and you already put your money in the right place, the mics.

-Rick

You already have the UA5, so stick with it.  Use it.  Listen to the results.  Decide what you do and/or do not like about its sound.  Then once you've built an upgrade budget, decide what gear to move to based on your experiences, what sonic characteristics you like in your MBHO > UA5 setup, which you don't, and evaluate the options within your budget.

[rowjimmytour]

I like the Ho's>V3 combo Svenkid has made so far and this guys got a collection of mics but always seems to go Ho's when he wants a sure thing. I never heard a MBHO>UA5(busman 2+) recording yet but I sure like the mod busman did for my UA5 and can definetly hear a difference.
Peace

[stevetoney]

Hey Steve how the heck are you!  FYI, I owe a large percentage of my Stevie Ray Vaughan collection to Steve Toney!  A class act all the way.  Great to see you on the taperssection.com!

Congrats on the gear, you'll love the HO's.  I agree with Brian.  If you already have a UA-5, use it for a while and figure out what you like.  They are a terrific value and you already put your money in the right place, the mics.

-Rick

Hi Rick...it's been a good little while since we crossed path's.  Didn't you and I talk once about putting together an SRV archive site?  Glad someone else has taken that on and made it a reality. 

Anyways, thanks for the kind words.  Wouldn't it be great to have Stevie around to record through those new mics?  One can only wonder what music he'd be making these days, but no doubt it would be great even though I'd have to forgive him for being non-taper friendly (maybe by now he'd have seen the light).

On the subject of the thread, I'll be posting the results of my listening test tonight.  I didn't get to it last night because...me...tipped...too...many...Slovenian...brewskies!

Steve

[hoyt]

I'm catching up on my HO posts today! 

I did a few comparisons previously with different pres.  I ran omnis one night with m148 > mod sbm1, then the next night, same location mp2 > mod sbm1.  Personally, I prefered the m148, but don't own one myself.  Then a few month later I got a 722 and ran a split comparision with mp2 > mod sbm1 versus the 722.  I think I even had a few where I did the mp2 > 722 vs just the 722.

I posted those here at some point I think, but I'm sure the links are dead now.  The mp2 is pretty easy to pick out of the mix, I think it helps the MBHOs calm down a bit, but the thought of having no preamp won my vote.

No matter what you put behind the MBHO's you should be pretty happy with the output, but try to borrow some other pre's to play around until you find the right match for your ears...

--hoyt

[sleepypedro]

howdy, HO fans.

for the record, i ran mbho > sxm2 for a short while a few years ago.  i don't think i circulated any of the recordings, but in the interest of science if anyone would like to hear some samples, let me know and i'll hook it up.

i definitely prefer mbho > mp2.