Topic: Would this work for a matrix? (may help lots of people if so!)

[atxwolfattack]

So, i just came up with a cool idea.

It won''t help you with already recorded shows, but it may work for shows you tape in the future. Though it may not be too hard for some to time stretch a audio source to line up a matrix recording, if you could do it much easier, wouldn't you?

Okay, here is my theory. You just finished recording a concert, and about to pick up your equipment. You pull your recorder out of the soundboard DON'T STOP RECORDING! take the line out of the recorder that is taping with your microphones, plug it into the line in of the recorder that was taping through the board. Both recorders are still recording. Now just clap in front of your mics, then you can stop recording on both recorders.

Now, you have a really obviously sharp peak at the very very end of the recording. All you have to do is line up the show at the beginning, and then time stretch at the end so the clap lines up perfectly.

How about that? Think it will work?

-josh

[Roving Sign]

Most folks are stretching to overcome differences in clock speed between two recorders...not sure how your idea would change any of that.

I've found musical peaks to be much more useful for aligning sources - stuff like snare drum hits between songs are ok - but for some reason...I find I get more accuracy with a musical peak...

Its not all visual IMO - you have to make certain judgements based on sound...

I like to listen to the sound of a ride cymbal - I find cymbals sounds are most affected by small shifts in time...

So dont just rely on visual time syncing...and rest your ears...I've thought I've had stuff synced properly...only to come back later and decide it really needed one more little nudge...

[atxwolfattack]

Most folks are stretching to overcome differences in clock speed between two recorders...not sure how your idea would change any of that.

Yeah, thats what i am talking about. Why wouldn't it help to overcome clock speed? If the 2 recorders have been taping for an hour or two at that point, the clocks are already a handful of milliseconds off, i dont think that connecting the two recorders through the line out and line in would automatically disregard the drifting clocks for the clap, or would it?

[stantheman1976]

This should work.  If you have any short, distinctive event to reference in both recordings you should be able to sync them easily.  I do this with video all the time.  If I'm using 2 cameras and/or a separate lapel mic and recorder for an interview I'll simply bring them close to each other and clap a time orw two at the beginning and end of the segment.  There's no reason your idea should not work and if it serves you well then run with it.

[easy jim]

There's no reason your idea should not work and if it serves you well then run with it.

^ what he said.   Good idea to get an easy sync point at the end of the recording to later correct the drift.

[morst]

So, i just came up with a cool idea.

How about that? Think it will work?

SURE!! I'll try it out soon and report back!!

[sygdwm]

So, i just came up with a cool idea.

How about that? Think it will work?

SURE!! I'll try it out soon and report back!!

this simple trick helped me sync my 2 sources together from the weekend with great ease. +t

[atxwolfattack]

So, i just came up with a cool idea.

How about that? Think it will work?

SURE!! I'll try it out soon and report back!!

this simple trick helped me sync my 2 sources together from the weekend with great ease. +t

Awesome! Glad to be of help. Funny how it took me about 30 matrix recordings to think of this.

[morst]

Well, I did the move tonight at Backyard Tire Fire. I'm a little shy on hard drive space at the moment due to a hardware failure (which the computer warned me about in time to move everything off it!) but I'm looking forward to an EZ sync-up. I plugged the DAT deck with the SBD source into my preamp and did some stereo finger-snaps in front of the mics before shutting off both units.

Thanks for the good idea, I think I can add a tip to the tip by suggesting that you could do the same thing before the show starts if you know you have a little time before the band starts. You could also test 'em at home and figure the number of samples of drift between each clock, and do a little math to figure out the exact amount of time compression necessary to match 'em up!

[stantheman1976]

If you use Sony Vegas to match them up you can match the snaps visually and get it dead on with little effort.

[sygdwm]

If you use Sony Vegas to match them up you can match the snaps visually and get it dead on with little effort.

wavelab montage makes it a "snap" too.

[Chuck]

I like to use the (overhead) stick hits some drummers do to start a song to sync things up. This is very similar to the clapboard used in movies. The clapping into your mics with both recorders connected is a great idea too. I will definitely use that at some point. +T

[boyacrobat]

thanks for the brain wave.

today i will start a mother of a matrix.
both shows way off pitch and fluctuating in pitch and speed.

both rec stage right, stage left in large arena.

i expect to hear a nice large rich in stereo in a strange nice way.

have been thinking about how to do it due to the hurdles involved and am confident in self to jump all hurdles
and get to the finish line and feel like a winner.
i can do this am sure, start today hope to finish today.
it will be a gold brick once finished.

g

[boyacrobat]

i kicked some ass with the matrix
 knew i would . job done   



g

[stantheman1976]

Confidence is key, my friend. 

[morst]

This would help most if you are using two different decks for the first time. Recording a test signal at the start and end of a continuous track will help with the time stretching aspect. What this will not help with is determining the relative delay between the sbd and aud sources. That is mostly determined by the distance between the mics and the source as modified by the local speed of sound which is dependent on air pressure, temperature, and humidity. Roughly .88ms/foot give or take a room full of sweaty dancers! 

[joemango]

I agree.  In order to get the time alignment aspect exactly right you'd have to record a "slate" sound from the mic source on both decks at the beginning AND end of the recording. 

Using a drum click at the start is great but it has the natural room delay between the two decks.  The slate method at the end of the recording will not have this inherent delay.  So you'd have to offset one of the sources by the room delay time and THEN make your time base adjustments.  You're actually adding more math to the equation your way.   What might be better would be to go to the stage before they shut off the PA and fire a gun or knock over a mic stand   But then you're dealing with possible law enforcement action.  Not good.

Considering you are being given a SBD patch, you may have the ear of the sound engineer and may be able to get his/her cooperation in producing some sort of pop or click through the PA that you can use as a timing mark on both sources.  They may have a talkback mic that can be used for this purpose. Or you could start rolling early and use the house music at the start and stop of the show as a benchmark.  Or wait until just before the set starts and use your method to make a start slate and an end slate, but you risk missing the start of the set and/or pissing off the engineer by trying to get to your SBD deck too close to the start of the show. 

But marking only one end of the recording with a synched signal won't help much I'm afraid.