Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: rastasean on June 04, 2011, 09:03:17 PM
-
starting page five for the sony pcm-m10.
part 5: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=145955.0 (4 june 2011 -
part 4: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=139638.0 (1 october 2010 - 4 june 2011)
part 3: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=136665.0 (26 june 2010 - 1 october 2010)
part 2: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=130924.0 (8 january 2010 - 26 june 2010)
part 1: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=124639.0 (19 july 2009 - 8 january 2010)
This is the FAQ/informational thread that contains most common questions and their answers: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=147551.msg1891476
You may save a lot of time if you read this thread prior to posting your question. Please note that the FAQ/informational thread should not be flooded with new questions but input to the m10 is welcomed.
Edit for clock malfunction information update...
See this thread for updates/workaround on the clock issue with the pcm-m10: Sony PCM-M10 Set Clock FIX / WORKAROUND (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=146385.0)
Please post to the Sony PCM-M10 Set Clock FIX / WORKAROUND thread for any information related to it.
-
In regards to real time clock discoveries, could someone just leave the recorder in sleep mode for months at a time and expect the clock to stay set?
-
^^^ That so called problem is just a figment of our imagination, as it turns out... ;)
I am curious about kleiner Rainer's post on this at the end of part IV. Has anyone ever had a similar issue with the D50 (since Rainer used the D50's schematics as a basis for his theory)?
-
I never had a RTC issue with my D50!! That was one of the reasons I hesitated to buy and M10.
-
the clock issue is crazy on mine
i will go a few months without issue then other times (like last week) go a couple of hrs and have to reset it twice
-
the clock issue is crazy on mine
i will go a few months without issue then other times (like last week) go a couple of hrs and have to reset it twice
Why not have sony fix it?
-
the clock issue is crazy on mine
i will go a few months without issue then other times (like last week) go a couple of hrs and have to reset it twice
Why not have sony fix it?
they wouldn't when i tried
they said IF they could duplicate the issue THEN they would give me a refurb
I wasn't about to let them hold onto it for what could be months to duplicate it when it really doesn't bother me to reset it before a show
-
My M-10 clock issue also comes and goes... It's a recorder not a watch so I really don't give a shit.
-
When I'm out doing nature recordings, having accurate time stamps on files is critical. And trying to set the clock, in a swamp, getting bitten by flies, while balancing on a log... Not good.
-
When I'm out doing nature recordings, having accurate time stamps on files is critical. And trying to set the clock, in a swamp, getting bitten by flies, while balancing on a log... Not good.
So everytime the record is turned off, it looses the time? What if you let it go to sleep, does it loose the time when you wake it up?
-
I'm interested in kleiner Rainer's post. I'm having the clock issue at the moment, which started after a period of a few months without using the device (when I first got it I used it more often and never had the problem). I can leave my device plugged in over the weekend to see whether anything improves.
My question is whether I should leave it plugged in with the unit switched on or off. Which do we think will allow the internal battery to recharge?
EDIT: I re-read his post and it seems (correct me if I'm wrong) that he was saying that the internal battery charges when it is being used either on battery power or on mains power, and that when the unit it switched off then the internal battery is not charged. Furthermore, he says that it might be the case that the internal battery takes quite a long time to recharge.
I'm going to leave mine on sleep mode over the weekend and see whether I still get the "set clock" when I bring it out of sleep mode on Monday. At the moment I'm getting "set clock" every day so this would tell me whether the internal battery is draining while the unit is sleeping (as opposed to being switched off).
If the internal battery is being charged while on sleep mode then presumably it should be fully charged at this point (over 60 hours from now) so I will then try leaving the recorder switched off (not sleeping) for a week or so and see whether I still get "set clock" when I turn it back on.
Currently I'm not using the recorder much and am switching it on from time to time to keep a record of occurrences of "set clock" in order to keep Sony tech support informed. Hence I can use my unit to investigate kleiner Rainer's "educated guess" for which I thank him very much. If we can understand the problem we can hopefully work around it.
I'll share any findings on here.
-
After 3 days on sleep mode the clock was still set when I woke the unit up this morning. I'm now testing whether having the unit "running" on sleep mode for a few days has done anything to charge the internal battery and stop the "set clock" happening (working on the assumption that the problem is due to the internal battery).
Will give it several days and see / report what happens.
-
Recently, I recorded with a new Kingston microSD card (http://www.amazon.com/Kingston-Mobility-Kit-microSDHC-Adapters/dp/B0028QWJTO) (looks like the price went up $8 in the last few days) and things went just fine.
I created a checksum file on the card for the WAVs with the card still inserted in the recorder (connected to lappy via USB) and the checksum ran fine. The files were then transferred via USB from the recorder to the HD. The checksum failed after the transfer. The microSD card was then taken out of the recorder and the files were transferred to the computer via the included SD adapter, inserted into the lappy. The checksum ran successfully.
Has anyone experienced this?
-
My set clock issue has gone away using kleiner Rainer's suggestion:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=146385.msg1880365#msg1880365
(http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=146385.msg1880365#msg1880365)
:)
-
My set clock issue has gone away using kleiner Rainer's suggestion:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=146385.msg1880365#msg1880365
(http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=146385.msg1880365#msg1880365)
:)
This explains why sony's engineers were not able to duplicate the problem. It comes from NOT being used, and the units work fine if you just USE them! I can imagine the sony engineers leaving the units in sleep mode on their test bench, which solved the problem every time they went to look for it!!
-
totally guilty of not using mine enough. i guess that's what happens when you own a 722. :P
-
Just got mine today. Now I need a show to tape.
-
My set clock issue has gone away using kleiner Rainer's suggestion:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=146385.msg1880365#msg1880365
(http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=146385.msg1880365#msg1880365)
:)
This explains why sony's engineers were not able to duplicate the problem. It comes from NOT being used, and the units work fine if you just USE them! I can imagine the sony engineers leaving the units in sleep mode on their test bench, which solved the problem every time they went to look for it!!
Don't be a sony apologist. It would have been trivial for them to black or white box this by testing a variety of workflows. And with the input of engineering, they should have been aware that the internal battery is only charged while the unit is on or in standby. They should have easily figured this out, assuming this is actually the fix.
-
I have emailed Sony Support UK the details I posted here on how it went away.
-
Recently, I recorded with a new Kingston microSD card (http://www.amazon.com/Kingston-Mobility-Kit-microSDHC-Adapters/dp/B0028QWJTO) (looks like the price went up $8 in the last few days) and things went just fine.
I created a checksum file on the card for the WAVs with the card still inserted in the recorder (connected to lappy via USB) and the checksum ran fine. The files were then transferred via USB from the recorder to the HD. The checksum failed after the transfer. The microSD card was then taken out of the recorder and the files were transferred to the computer via the included SD adapter, inserted into the lappy. The checksum ran successfully.
Has anyone experienced this?
^^^
I narrowed this issue down to the external HD, not the microSD card, in case anyone was wondering. The card has worked flawlessly the last half-dozen or so times I've used it.
The USB adapter is about the size of of penny....crazy small.
-
Just ordered one of these bad boys....Should get it early next week.....
-
This explains why sony's engineers were not able to duplicate the problem. It comes from NOT being used, and the units work fine if you just USE them! I can imagine the sony engineers leaving the units in sleep mode on their test bench, which solved the problem every time they went to look for it!!
Don't be a sony apologist. It would have been trivial for them to black or white box this by testing a variety of workflows. And with the input of engineering, they should have been aware that the internal battery is only charged while the unit is on or in standby. They should have easily figured this out, assuming this is actually the fix.
Uh huh. Only took the rest of us a year and a half...
-
Anybody has any experience with B&H warranty.
They have my M10 since several weeks and act like real A****s. I bought the recorder about a year ago and added a extra few years off warranty... And they keep asking stupid questions why did you sent it in etc. and why to us what should we do with it. IMO they should forward it to Sony for repair.
The parcel had a failure description included ...recorders creates buzz and humm static during recording using the line in jack with external battery powered mics...
Anybody? Any ideas can explain how warranty is handled within the US since I am from Germany....
Cheers SF
-
So you are sure the M10 is broken? Have you tried to run line in from another source?
If it records fine from another source your mics may be the problem.
Obviously it's a bit late for that.
Did they say they don't find any problem? Or what has their response been.
I have had nothing but positive experiences with B+H.
-
Checked the equipment with different mics and BB's with the Edriol RO9 HR I also own. And all the tests recordings I made since then were fine. But I have the same hiss on two recordings I mad one after the other with the M10 Lineage: M10 - TINY box - DPA 4061, M10 - CA 9100 - CA14.
IMO it must be the M10.
When I called for status....I was asked/told
Why did you send it to us? The half year warranty is over. What should we do with the Item? Whats is wrong with the item?
I paid for a 3 YEAR protetion plan. I sent a detailled description whats wrong with item. I sent a copy of the voucher/bill.
In Germany you return the item to the vendor where you have bought it from and then it is his responsibilty to forward it to Sony. I could have sent it to Sony in the US...But I am sure they may have asked the same stupid questions.
-
I've never bought one of those extended warranties...but I'm under the impression that you deal with the company that does the extended warranty. Either way B+H should help you out.
Have you been dealing with them via email or phone?
I've never heard of any issues with B+H. Probably the best company I've ever dealt with.
-
Dealt per phone.....will mail the info...wait and see....
-
Sorry if I should ask in a different place, but ......
Power consumption in the M10 using alkaline AA is concerning me. I may be taking a risk but have been trying to find the point when I need to swap batteries. I have about 12 hours on Duracell AA and the battery meter has not budged from full. Is there a fault in metering? Does the meter just plummet after a certain point of drainage? Is there a 'crap-out" point when the unit just shuts down?
I've been using this M10 for over a year and use both alakaline and Lithium recharge. My recharge batts, likely tired, can run 5 hours MAX. The alkalines just go on and on ... I really don't like filling the dump, but ...
And, feel free to point me to a good source for the AA rechargables. I get lost in 'the search' sometimes. I also power my mixpre with AA x8 self made brick. Again, alkalines keep going, swift drain on the lithium recharge units.
B.D.
-
I've taped about a half dozen shows on a single pair of alkalines going line-in to my M10 and only one bar has dropped. I've even tinkered with the on-board mics (~1-2 hours of recording), all on this one set of batteries.
As much as I like to use rechargeables, I simply don't with the M10.
-
i got about 20 hrs on the set of aa that came in the box
and that was not 20 hrs as a test, it was turn it on and off, multi shows, 1-3 hr sets
-
i can get 30 hrs w/ 2300mah energizer nimh batts :)
-
So far, on the included AA batteries, I've rolled about 8 hours and haven't even lost one bar of juice yet. My Edirol R09 could never do that. ;)
-
Hi guys,
I couldn't find the correct keywords to know if this already happened,
the rec button of my M10 doesn't do a "click" as the other buttons, I think it used to do it before?
I can still record but it it might be a defective sign before it doesn't work at all?
Kind regards,
JM.
-
Hi guys,
I couldn't find the correct keywords to know if this already happened,
the rec button of my M10 doesn't do a "click" as the other buttons, I think it used to do it before?
I can still record but it it might be a defective sign before it doesn't work at all?
Kind regards,
JM.
Myself and others have noted this, and I asked about it. The record button doesn't have much travel. It seems to be present on at least a few units, but I don't think anyone has posted that the button stopped working. I just decided to forget about it.
-
Ok thanks, I'll go with it like it is now..
Kind regards,
JM.
-
My new M10 arrived today. First show Sunday. I've got a few threads to read, I guess. ;)
-
My new M10 arrived today. First show Sunday. I've got a few threads to read, I guess. ;)
After reading parts 1 and 2, I wish there was a filter for posts related to using the internal mics. I am now sympathetic to those that ask questions rather than try to weed through 100 pages of stuff to find the bits of info that are important to them (ie, what is unity gain?). There are hundreds of posts about using the internal mics, dozens on the remote, but only 2 on unity gain. Granted, I've only made it through 50 pages, but wow, overload of information that means very little to me personally. So, for those that point fingers at folks asking questions that have been answered in any of these 5 threads, I think we should cut them a break. There really is quite a bit of information there, but not easy to find even if you are willing to plow through it all. If I had the time, I'd compile an FAQ, like I recall was done with the R-09. This was a great resource when I first purchased my R-09.
-
I usually run mine at 3!! I thought it would be similar to the D50, but I ran my D50 at 5 with the same mics and pre.
-
I know there are a lot of threads on and posts on the m10 but often times using the search feature of ts can help narrow things down. I'm sure I have asked redundant questions and I apologize for that and in the future I'll link people to more specific parts of the thread that contains their answer.
as far as unity, I have read anywhere from 3 to 6 and I usually like 4 1/5 to 5.
-
I know there are a lot of threads on and posts on the m10 but often times using the search feature of ts can help narrow things down. I'm sure I have asked redundant questions and I apologize for that and in the future I'll link people to more specific parts of the thread that contains their answer.
as far as unity, I have read anywhere from 3 to 6 and I usually like 4 1/5 to 5.
Guysonic measured it at 6 shortly after the m10 was released. Others have since claimed their own measurements to put it at 4.
I run at 4, but only because it's a much better setting to avoid clipping with my current setup and not because I think it sounds better than 6.
-
Maiden voyage tonight. Set at 5 for now. It is recording something so that is progress. 8)
-
sweet. hope it comes out okay :)
-
Came out good - vocals are a little buried but that was the house sound, not the M10. zeros and ones were written, transferred to my hard drive, resampled and dithered. About to be torrented. Rock the f*ck on. 8)
-
Hello all, I just got this unit and a taper friend of mine who has one told me to use mic in vs. line in. I have used line in for every recorder I have used and just wondering how it should really be setup from the pro's.
I'm using M10, AUDIO TECHNICA SLIMLINE STEREO MICROPHONES SP-CMC-8
and Battery box SP-SPSB-10
Thanks
Don
-
For acoustic and folk bands, use mic-in, for any loud bands ALWAYS use the line-in ;) I used mic-in when recording Ricky Skaggs, and I was about 20' from the stage, DFC :) But for anything louder than him, def use Line-In ;)
-
with the battery box i would use line in always
-
My set clock issue has gone away using kleiner Rainer's suggestion:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=146385.msg1880365#msg1880365
(http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=146385.msg1880365#msg1880365)
:)
My clock issue has also disappeared using Kleiner Rainer's suggestion linked above.
+T and +T
:coolguy:
-
with the battery box i would use line in always
Curious on why you would do that. With a pre definately line in but a BB you should always go mic in. Anyways As i am waiting on a pre from Chris since June I had to go with a CA-14 (o) into mic in on a PCMM10. Here is my 2 cents on the PCMM10. The venue was small, Bergen PAC in Englewood, NJ. I have to tell you from recording in the sweet spot 6 rows FOB dead center the ideal record level setting on the PCMM10 would be just a hear under 3 for loud rock band. Slightly higher for backup band. This was for Ted Nugent and the floor was shakin' throwing vibrations through my body. Recording came out stellar. I highly recommend the CA-14 mics for the PCMM10 if you are on a budget. The PCMM10 has no complaints from me. Great device. The only thing i recommend is you put black tape over the mic sensitivity setting and manual record switch. I also recommend once you start recording and get your levels right, use the hold feature to lock the device buttons. Also best to start recording while venue is still lit up. Once the lights go out it can be awkward getting started. Limiter on with low cut filter off. Those little tidbits i learned from my previous outing.
-
Some accessories I've experienced and would highly recommend:
Screen protection
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/706759-USA/Vanguard_PROTECTOR_43_Protector_43_Screen_Protector.html
(http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/8066/img7892t.th.jpg) (http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/8066/img7892t.jpg)
Dust protectors for input sockets
http://cgi.ebay.com/QU-Tech-3-5mm-headphone-jack-anti-dust-cover-Black-/260740176914?pt=PDA_Accessories&hash=item3cb5535c12#ht_1991wt_754
Pictures here: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=145048.msg1874269#msg1874269
Cases
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/754926-REG/Lowepro_LP36325_0AM_5_0_Navi_Case_Black.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/630164-REG/Lowepro_LP36006_0AM_Volta_20_Camera_Pouch.html
(http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/7118/img7885f.th.jpg) (http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/7118/img7885f.jpg)
"Volta 20" on the left, "5.0 Navi" on the right
I leave the recorder connected to mics, headphones and the remote, using right-angled plugs like that on the picture, in a closed case that secures to the belt. For this purpose the bigger one would be excellent. It has just the space required for the recorder with the plugs connected to the sides and top.
If you don't use anything but microphones, then go for the Lowepro Volta 20 (the small one). It would be tight right out the box, very tight. Don't worry though as its tightness loosens with time. It also has some hard sleeve, a piece of fabric along the zipper's path, that prevents the zipper from scratching the recorder.
They're both made of hard material and have quality zippers, heavy duty for a taper, and also elegant, low profile.
-
[with a] BB you should always go mic in.
No you shouldn't.
Also I think that "3" on the M10's input would be well below unity by anyone's estimate thus far - I really wouldn't be happy if I was having to run at three to avoid clipping...
-
[with a] BB you should always go mic in.
No you shouldn't.
Why not? The M10 can take quite a hot signal and has a quiet internal pre. Most of the small mics people here use aren't sensitive enough to overload the M10's mic input unless it's obscenely loud. I guess "always" is too strong of a word, but I don't think "usually" is.
Also I think that "3" on the M10's input would be well below unity by anyone's estimate thus far - I really wouldn't be happy if I was having to run at three to avoid clipping...
3 is not an unreasonable level, in my opinion. I would be nervous if I had to go below 1, but 3 is no problem...
-
I've been doing a bit of testing with the free version of RMAA - right mark audio analyzer... it's neat. Though a bit tricky to use, and documentation is sparse. It has a mode where it generates audio test files which can then be played to a recorder under test.
I don't have an m10... but a good test would be to send the test tone to the recorder at each gain setting. Then see if the freq response and distortion vary. There is also something to be said for sending a clean sinewave to the recorder and visually inspecting the sine wave later.
One challenge in this test is the output level of the source. A source that won't clip at max m10 gain will be very low at min gain. So it may be necessary to use a couple different source gains.
-
Why not? The M10 can take quite a hot signal and has a quiet internal pre. Most of the small mics people here use aren't sensitive enough to overload the M10's mic input unless it's obscenely loud. I guess "always" is too strong of a word, but I don't think "usually" is.
I would just never introduce a recorder's mic-in unless I absolutely had too. But if you're happy with the M10's mic-in pre, I'm not going to argue with you.
3 is not an unreasonable level, in my opinion. I would be nervous if I had to go below 1, but 3 is no problem...
But if 3 is below unity -and I believe all estimates thus far have put it somewhere higher than this- does this not mean that you are actually attenuating the signal? I would much rather have a signal path that involved a little (or no gain) to get the levels I wanted rather than having excess gain from an internal pre that then needs to be attenuated.
I guess part of my thinking may well be a hangover from the days of noisy mic-inputs that easily overloaded but I would still question the logic of using the mic-in if it means you're then having to attenuate the signal.
-
I would just never introduce a recorder's mic-in unless I absolutely had too. But if you're happy with the M10's mic-in pre, I'm not going to argue with you.
Well, I guess it depends on the recorder. I wouldn't use the mic input on a Zoom H2 (tried that with crappy results), but I have no problems with the M10's. It is quiet (see guysonic's noise plots) and seems to me to be pretty transparent too...
But if 3 is below unity -and I believe all estimates thus far have put it somewhere higher than this- does this not mean that you are actually attenuating the signal? I would much rather have a signal path that involved a little (or no gain) to get the levels I wanted rather than having excess gain from an internal pre that then needs to be attenuated.
I guess part of my thinking may well be a hangover from the days of noisy mic-inputs that easily overloaded but I would still question the logic of using the mic-in if it means you're then having to attenuate the signal.
As far as I know, the estimates of unity are based on the line input. I have no idea whether or not they actually apply to the mic input. But, regardless, I don't see why there would be a huge difference between adding a little gain or attenuating a bit (adding "negative gain").
Of course, the whole discussion assumes that the source is loud enough to go line-in in the first place. In that case, I guess I would consider it sort of a toss-up. Many of the shows I record, though, are quiet enough that I would either have to go mic-in or use an external pre...
-
snip
3 is not an unreasonable level, in my opinion. I would be nervous if I had to go below 1, but 3 is no problem...
But if 3 is below unity -and I believe all estimates thus far have put it somewhere higher than this- does this not mean that you are actually attenuating the signal? I would much rather have a signal path that involved a little (or no gain) to get the levels I wanted rather than having excess gain from an internal pre that then needs to be attenuated.
I guess part of my thinking may well be a hangover from the days of noisy mic-inputs that easily overloaded but I would still question the logic of using the mic-in if it means you're then having to attenuate the signal.
yousef,
afaik the concept of "unity gain" means 1V into line in or mic in and then you get 1V out of line out.
The setting of the record level shows some arbitrary value from "1" to "10". The gain at "5" when recording via mic in is completely different from the gain when using the same setting for line in (in this case, it may even be attenuation!).
I guarantee you that a mic gain setting of "3" still means a substantial amplification of a level of a few tens of millivolts, because the typical A/D converter expects voltages in the range of 2-4V peak to peak.
BTW the gain control in the M10 really sets the gain of the mic amp - so you only set the gain you need. This also optimises noise and headroom.
The other solution would be a mic pre with fixed or switchable gain followed by a variable voltage divider (either potentiometer or digitally switchable resistor network). This has the disadvantage that if you set the level pot low enough, you would get a clipped signal from the mic pre long before your level meters approach the overload mark...
So if you have to set the dial to "3", don`t worry. If the mic gain switch is set to high, you could set it to low, and turn up the dial to a value that is more comfortable for you ;-)
Greetings,
Rainer
-
Thanks for all the info. I will use line in for the loud rock shows.
Don
-
with the battery box i would use line in always
Curious on why you would do that. With a pre definately line in but a BB you should always go mic in.
well i always did louder shows and you can brickwall much easier going mic in
line in is usually quieter then mic in too so there is no need to introduce the noise imo
-
You were sort of convincing me until this point:
So if you have to set the dial to "3", don`t worry. If the mic gain switch is set to high, you could set it to low, and turn up the dial to a value that is more comfortable for you ;-)
As I understand it, the mic lo/high switch is just optional attenuation - so if you have it set to "lo" you are actually attenuating the signal to avoid overloading the input. That being the case, why not just plug it into the line input where it wouldn't need attenuating?
-
You were sort of convincing me until this point:
So if you have to set the dial to "3", don`t worry. If the mic gain switch is set to high, you could set it to low, and turn up the dial to a value that is more comfortable for you ;-)
As I understand it, the mic lo/high switch is just optional attenuation - so if you have it set to "lo" you are actually attenuating the signal to avoid overloading the input. That being the case, why not just plug it into the line input where it wouldn't need attenuating?
yousef,
I do not have a schematic of the M10, but of the D50. In engineering, you try to re-use proven solutions. The mic preamp of the D50 has variable gain, and switching between Mic hi and Mic low also changes the gain of the preamp. This ensures maximum headroom and best noise figure. My measurements of the M10 hint at the same solution. This makes sense for battery powered devices where you simply cannot increase the preamp supply voltage to increase headroom. Using an attenuator makes sense when you have a real mixer with +-15V power supplies and symmetric inputs, where you can expect 1..2V worth of audio from a phantom powered condenser mic. Noise figure is not an issue then...
On the other hand, attenuating the weak signal from a battery powered electret mic with maybe 8mm diaphragm diameter reduces precious signal-to-noise ratio. Setting the gain of the mic preamp to just the value you need is the better solution in this case.
I did some measurements of the mic and line inputs:
Mic low, meter at -6dB, 1khz Sine wave:
Gain 10: 4.5mV
Gain 5: 29.4mV
Gain 3: 129.5mV
Mic high, meter at -6dB, 1khz Sine wave:
Gain 10: 0.4mV
Gain 5: 3.3mV
Gain 3: 18.4mV
Line in, meter at -6dB, 1khz Sine wave:
Gain 10: 260mV
Gain 5: 835mV
Gain 3: >2000mV, limited by signal generator
As you can see, we have 3 more or less overlapping gain ranges - nice! And the line input can take pro levels without problems.
Please take my measurements with a grain of salt, because the signal generator/meter combination I use is well worn (30 years old RIM PG-100) and not lab grade.
Hope that helps,
Rainer
-
I think the M10 has been out for about two years now... about time for a new model I would think. 8)
Given how ridiculously long the M10 lasts, I would like to see a new model that is even smaller that uses AAA batteries and still with decent battery life (maybe 10 hours or so). It's great as it is, but smaller would be nice for stealthing.
-
I think the M10 has been out for about two years now... about time for a new model I would think. 8)
With the clock issue apparently understood and resolved, I am finally thinking of buying one... So yes, certainly. The moment I unbox mine, Sony will announce the m11 :P
-
I think the M10 has been out for about two years now... about time for a new model I would think. 8)
With the clock issue apparently understood and resolved, I am finally thinking of buying one... So yes, certainly. The moment I unbox mine, Sony will announce the m11 :P
You will LOVE the M10. I sold my 722 because of the M10 :P ;D 8)
-
With the clock issue apparently understood and resolved, I am finally thinking of buying one...
Oh, I must have missed the clock issue being resolved now? Mine is still fine, but it seems that most people have had issues eventually. Unless there has been a firmware update to address it (but I think everyone is on the v1.0 firmware since Sony apparently does not do the firmware thing).
-
The m10 really needs a faq to cover the clock issue, gain, etc. We've been sort of ignoring those on TS lately..
Has anyone measured the gain for each input mode, at each setting? Etc.
-
The main page of this thread does have a link to the resolution to the clock issue: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=145955.0
I included it as soon as I knew a thread existed.
The unity appears to be anywhere from 3 to 6. I think 6 was on the high end and most people prefer to run around 4.
i will work on a FAQ/history of the m10.
not the best but hopefully it will save some folks time from reading five threads on the m10: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=147551.msg1891476
-
I run mine at 4
-
A unity range from 3 to 6 appears to be too wide.
Shouldn't there be a techncial way to measure the unity precisely? Maybe asking Sony directly? Ready to do so if anybody gives me the right email address.
Best, Mauro
-
Does anyone have any specific info about the LCF (Low Cut Filter) in the M10? I'm finding conflicting information.
Does the LCF work through the Line In jack, the Mic In jac, the internal mics, or all three?
At exactly what frequency does it it cut?
Unfortunately, there is no useful information in the owner's manual.
-
*Why* care about unity?
Unity doesn't mean jack.
What matters is what sounds best when used as a line-in a/d device.
-
Got your point!
-
Who has the best deal on one of these right now? Looking to buy soon....NEW.
-
I got mine recently from B&H for $229, free shipping. They had some refurbed ones for a little less, but I went new. That was about the best price I found. Even with free shipping, I got it the next day since I am in the 1 day UPS Ground area for B&H.
-
IMHO, if you can get a refurb with a standard warranty, get it.... you are going to scratch the unit and beat it up (especially if you stealth)... save a few $$ for beer and tickets
-
After FLA Vacation in 2 weeks, and Moedown in 3 weeks, I will be buying a brand new M10. Might run Lemosax>XLR Out>M10 and Lemosax>Line Out>M10 so I have some redundancy since I sold my 722 :)
-
*Why* care about unity?
analog patchers?
-
*Why* care about unity?
analog patchers?
Let's see.. What sounds best, or patchers... sounds best or patchers... Snort.
-
analog patchers?
who patches any more? who even needs to?
just tell them to get it off dime/etree/etc after the fact
-
Jumped into the M10 pool this week. Got the M10 from B&H on Thursday. Am in love.
Thursday: Rockin' Teenage Combo - bar gig with Sony ECM907 from balcony. Good, not great due to not enough crowd rejection
Friday: Paul Kemmish - Acoustic Bass, piano, clarinet and drums. Onboard omnis at front of stage. Turned out great.
Saturday: Rockin' Teenage Combo - bar gig, tabletop close taping. very nice.
Building linkwitz mod Panasonics, and am starting the search for a Nak 300 style kit. (Love the CP4 for large venue taping)
-
who patches any more? who even needs to?
just tell them to get it off dime/etree/etc after the fact
I like to patch sometimes. I live in Europe, but I travel to the US for work several times a year, usually to major cities where I can find a show or two I'd like to record. Generally, I am by myself. So I go to the team board for that area and ask if anyone will be recording and perhaps willing to offer a patch. That way, I only need to bring a recorder and a cable. The real bonus, for me, is that I have the chance to meet some like minded folks to hang out with at the show. I always offer to help set-up or breakdown, block, carry stuff to the car, etc. And I buy beers...
Strictly necessary? No, but I have met some good people this way. It's also nice to have the recording to screw around with during the inevitable airport down times...
-
I like to patch sometimes.
(snip) And I buy beers...
I <3 patchers who buy beer and watch the rig during pee breaks. Makes the whole show WAY more fun!
-
I like to patch sometimes. I live in Europe, but I travel to the US for work several times a year, usually to major cities where I can find a show or two I'd like to record. Generally, I am by myself. So I go to the team board for that area and ask if anyone will be recording and perhaps willing to offer a patch. That way, I only need to bring a recorder and a cable.
aaronji,
which cable you need for a patch from a SoundBoard. A RCA would do it?
-
which cable you need for a patch from a SoundBoard. A RCA would do it?
Depending on the soundboard, it's most likely RCA (tape out) or XLR (matrix). To be on the safe side, it doesn't hurt to be prepared for 1/4" outs, too.
Most likely aaronjii is talking about patching from another taper's deck? Usually less complicated than getting a feed from the venue's soundboard. I'm also agreed with morst: big fan of patchers that buy the beers and will watch the rig during bathroom breaks. Folks like that can patch out of my deck anytime. ;D
-
I like to patch sometimes.
(snip) And I buy beers...
I <3 patchers who buy beer and watch the rig during pee breaks. Makes the whole show WAY more fun!
Me three :)
-
New M10 owner here, coming from an R-09HR. The M10 is a very nice unit. Battery life is amazing, 4GB internal storage is great, and I actually like the rec level dial more than I expected.
I used the M10 at a loud metal show recently with my SP-CMC-8 mics (low sens mod) and an SP battery box. Same setup I normally use except now with the M10. When recording I like to peak around -6db but to accomplish that I had to turn the rec level dial up to about 8.5. I tried recording one set on mic-in to compare (I always use line-in, did this as a test). In that case I had the dial set to about 4 to peak at -6db.
Reading the past few pages it sounds like unity is around 4 or 5 on the M10 line-in. So my question is, do I need to be using mics WITHOUT the low sens mod to be able to record via line-in with the levels around 4 or 5? Or maybe use a pre instead of the battery box? Or just use mic-in?
Thanks.
-
I have used MIC-IN the only 2 times I ran my CA14>SP BB>M10. Dont be afraid to do that. I also had the M10 at unity gain [4] on the rec level wheel :)
-
I like to patch sometimes.
(snip) And I buy beers...
I <3 patchers who buy beer and watch the rig during pee breaks. Makes the whole show WAY more fun!
Me three :)
An added bonus there is that I can tap the locals' knowledge of the good micro-brews too...So many of them these days...Actually, Bean, I think I bought you a beer at a show in the 'Burgh a few years back (STS9 at Mr. Small's). At least I offered, but I can't recall if you wanted one or not. I wasn't patching that day, though...
I have used MIC-IN the only 2 times I ran my CA14>SP BB>M10. Dont be afraid to do that. I also had the M10 at unity gain [4] on the rec level wheel :)
I'll second that. I recently recorded Rush mic-in with DPA 4060s (20 mV/Pa) and had no problems...
-
I have used MIC-IN the only 2 times I ran my CA14>SP BB>M10. Dont be afraid to do that. I also had the M10 at unity gain [4] on the rec level wheel :)
The concept of unity gain only applies to the line input. It's the theoretical point at which no gain or attenuation is applied by the recorder thus imparting the least 'color.' Mic inputs are, by definition, applying liberal amounts of gain and will color a recording regardless of the setting used.
That said, I would venture to say there is probably a sweetspot with the m10's Mic input.
-
I like to patch sometimes.
(snip) And I buy beers...
I <3 patchers who buy beer and watch the rig during pee breaks. Makes the whole show WAY more fun!
Me three :)
An added bonus there is that I can tap the locals' knowledge of the good micro-brews too...So many of them these days...Actually, Bean, I think I bought you a beer at a show in the 'Burgh a few years back (STS9 at Mr. Small's). At least I offered, but I can't recall if you wanted one or not. I wasn't patching that day, though...
I have used MIC-IN the only 2 times I ran my CA14>SP BB>M10. Dont be afraid to do that. I also had the M10 at unity gain [4] on the rec level wheel :)
I'll second that. I recently recorded Rush mic-in with DPA 4060s (20 mV/Pa) and had no problems...
AWESOME ;D 8) Thanks! Yeah, I can't honestly remember what happened, whether I got a drink from you or not......What an AMAZING show tho! That STS9 show STILL gets ALOT of play from me :)
-
^^^ Yeah, that was a great show! You were fighting tooth and nail to protect your stand from the heavily spun crowd, though...I guess you didn't see as much of it as you heard!
-
^^^ Yeah, that was a great show! You were fighting tooth and nail to protect your stand from the heavily spun crowd, though...I guess you didn't see as much of it as you heard!
Yeah, I'm usually the lone taper for Biscuits/Lotus/STS9/etc, and it gets HAIRY FOB at Smalls :)
-
just ordered mine today from B&H photo. should be here in a few days. now to get a littlebox and lighten my gearbag up!
8)
-
just ordered mine today from B&H photo. should be here in a few days. now to get a littlebox and lighten my gearbag up!
8)
I got the same idea but im holding out for the p48 tinybox (even smaller yet).
Neil
-
Hi!
Did anyone check continous recording time with different types of batteries?
I could do it myself, or read through this whole thread, but if someone could point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it.
-colargol
-
Hi!
Did anyone check continous recording time with different types of batteries?
I could do it myself, or read through this whole thread, but if someone could point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it.
-colargol
Longer than I could possibly ever need it to be.
-
The battery life is what is going to lead me to getting one of these pretty soon. Also looking to start doing some 24/96 recordings which I can only do 24/48 on my tascam dr-07.
-
Anyone know, if changing the battery setting (alkaline <-> NiMH) has an effect on clock reset ?
.
-
Anyone know, if changing the battery setting (alkaline <-> NiMH) has an effect on clock reset ?
.
My original defective unit had the same clock problem whether using alkaline or NiMh (or AC).
The replacement unit SONY sent me has had no problems at all with either type of battery. I leave it in standby for weeks at a time with no problem (using Eneloop NiMH). I don't remember the last time I had alkalines in it. IIRC I haven't run it down to empty -- I just change out the Eneloops when i see it getting low. I haven't used AC other than for an initial check since I got the replacement. Just checked the clock a minute ago after leaving it on standby for a day or so (meaning not even using playback) and it's fine.
-
I got exactly 30 hours using 2300mah Energizer AA's :) And my charger is a Powerex MH-C9000
-
Just ordered mine off of b&h (red one). Should have it in a few days, looking forward to using it saturday night for the new mastersounds
-
looking forward to using it saturday night for the new mastersounds
I LOVED their 2 sets at MoeDown this past weekend :)
-
Just got an M10 from B&H. Are they sealed in any way? Just kinda wondering if this was a return. There is no seal on anything and the sleeve it's in is sloppily folded. The sony box has a scrape and a couple little dings. Not exactly "brand new" looking packaging.
-
Just got an M10 from B&H. Are they sealed in any way? Just kinda wondering if this was a return. There is no seal on anything and the sleeve it's in is sloppily folded. The sony box has a scrape and a couple little dings. Not exactly "brand new" looking packaging.
Here's video where a guy unboxes it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XslsYolGHMU
I can't remember how mine was packed.
-
Here's video where a guy unboxes it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XslsYolGHMU
Thanks! Good grief, I can't believe I watched that, and actually found it useful!
It is interesting that the unit has no seals, shrinkwrap or tape at all. Most devices have at least something to make it clear whether it has been opened, etc.
-
Just ordered mine off of b&h (red one). Should have it in a few days, looking forward to using it saturday night for the new mastersounds
Good choice, except we'll have to be careful to not mix them up when we tape together!
-
It is interesting that the unit has no seals, shrinkwrap or tape at all. Most devices have at least something to make it clear whether it has been opened, etc.
That is pretty normal for items sold outside of north america
-
Anyone have a link to any internal pics of the m10? Curious.
-
Just got an M10 from B&H. Are they sealed in any way? Just kinda wondering if this was a return. There is no seal on anything and the sleeve it's in is sloppily folded. The sony box has a scrape and a couple little dings. Not exactly "brand new" looking packaging.
Mine also came from B&H and the box is *NOT* sealed and had some slight damage to the box. Everything inside was perfect so I really didn't care. They all come this way. :)
-
Sorry to kind of jump in and not dig through all the threads, but I'm looking for a quick yes/no. Does the M10 offer mic power like the R-09? Or can it ONLY be run with a battery box? I know as a general rule the batt box will sound slightly better, but I run a buddies Church mics direct from a R-09 with no other box and they sound pretty good when I'm looking for a really discrete rig. Wondering if I can do the same with the M10?
-
Sorry to kind of jump in and not dig through all the threads, but I'm looking for a quick yes/no. Does the M10 offer mic power like the R-09? Or can it ONLY be run with a battery box? I know as a general rule the batt box will sound slightly better, but I run a buddies Church mics direct from a R-09 with no other box and they sound pretty good when I'm looking for a really discrete rig. Wondering if I can do the same with the M10?
In the FAQ thread...
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=147551.msg1891507#msg1891507
-
In the FAQ thread...
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=147551.msg1891507#msg1891507
Looks like YES. Thanks a bunch, I missed the FAQ. Looks like I may have to pick one of these up!
-
In the FAQ thread...
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=147551.msg1891507#msg1891507
Looks like YES. Thanks a bunch, I missed the FAQ. Looks like I may have to pick one of these up!
DEF do it :)
-
DEF do it :)
+1. I ran the old R-09 (non-HR version) and don't miss it one bit. The M10 is a great litle device (low-noise floor and has yet to let me down -- it also runs for MANY HOURS on the same batteries unlike the R-09).
-
Just got an M10 from B&H. Are they sealed in any way? Just kinda wondering if this was a return. There is no seal on anything and the sleeve it's in is sloppily folded. The sony box has a scrape and a couple little dings. Not exactly "brand new" looking packaging.
Mine also came from B&H and the box is *NOT* sealed and had some slight damage to the box. Everything inside was perfect so I really didn't care. They all come this way. :)
Got mine last night and it wasn't sealed or anything. Everything is looking fine though.
-
Just got an M10 from B&H. Are they sealed in any way? Just kinda wondering if this was a return. There is no seal on anything and the sleeve it's in is sloppily folded. The sony box has a scrape and a couple little dings. Not exactly "brand new" looking packaging.
Mine also came from B&H and the box is *NOT* sealed and had some slight damage to the box. Everything inside was perfect so I really didn't care. They all come this way. :)
Got mine last night and it wasn't sealed or anything. Everything is looking fine though.
What rig are you running besides the M10?
-
Does anyone use an external battery? I know it has long AA life but just wondering if there is a good one out there.
-
Does anyone use an external battery? I know it has long AA life but just wondering if there is a good one out there.
Why would anyone do that tho? Rechargeable AA's are very reliable if you get the right ones, and lasted 30hrs when I did a test awhile back :)
-
Im up to 18hrs of recordings on the same pair of alkaline energizers. Do you need to run longer than that?
-
I run 40+ hrs of music at festivals and I use 4xAA[2300mah] and thats it :) 8)
-
Wow, no need for an external.
-
Just got an M10 from B&H. Are they sealed in any way? Just kinda wondering if this was a return. There is no seal on anything and the sleeve it's in is sloppily folded. The sony box has a scrape and a couple little dings. Not exactly "brand new" looking packaging.
Mine also came from B&H and the box is *NOT* sealed and had some slight damage to the box. Everything inside was perfect so I really didn't care. They all come this way. :)
Got mine last night and it wasn't sealed or anything. Everything is looking fine though.
What rig are you running besides the M10?
Only other recorder I have is a tascam dr-07. Used the sony last night and never had a bar drop after turning on and off a few times while getting a 2 hour 20 minute set. Was using rayovac AA batteries.
-
Does anyone use an external battery? I know it has long AA life but just wondering if there is a good one out there.
There is some elegance in the m10 being powered with 3.0 volts instead of 5.0, or something else. That elegance is the mighty Alkaline D cell battery... Remember "flashlight" batteries? They're 15K-18K mAH! So you can make cheap battery packs that last nearly forever..
So if we ballpark assume that it is 5X more capacity than the AA, that's something like 125, maybe 180 hours of running. Most people here don't care about that stuff, but it can be very useful.
What the m10 seems to lack is the ability to wake-up on a schedule and record a specific duration. Other recorders, like the Olympus, have that ability and it is hugely useful to nature recordists, scientists, etc. I wish the m10 did that.
-
So what microSD brand do people use? Any issues with 16 or 32 gig cards?
-
So what microSD brand do people use? Any issues with 16 or 32 gig cards?
Here's a recent summary:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=147879.msg1894019
-
So what microSD brand do people use? Any issues with 16 or 32 gig cards?
Here's a recent summary:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=147879.msg1894019
Thanks!
-
Anyone else having trouble with a sticky hold/on-off button?
The off setting is spring loaded, but I find the spring is not sufficient to overcome the stickiness in the switch. When turning hold off, I need to be very careful not to slide it too far - otherwise it sticks in the off setting and the unit shuts down. It then takes quite a while to start back up, due to memory checks, etc.
I tried working the switch back and forth, and that helped... But only temporarily. I find it is again sticky.
-
Nope, no issues at all...but mind you, I've only taped like 3-4 shows with this recorder so far.
-
Anyone else having trouble with a sticky hold/on-off button?
The off setting is spring loaded, but I find the spring is not sufficient to overcome the stickiness in the switch. When turning hold off, I need to be very careful not to slide it too far - otherwise it sticks in the off setting and the unit shuts down. It then takes quite a while to start back up, due to memory checks, etc.
I tried working the switch back and forth, and that helped... But only temporarily. I find it is again sticky.
having owned 2 units now for over a year... no
-
Dang. If I slide it to off, it stays at off and does not spring back to neutral.
I don't really want to try lubing it... and I don't want to wear it out trying to loosen it.
Wonder if b&h will give me any hassle about exchanging it. I'm waiting for a callback from Sony.
-
Just spoke to Sony. The unit that the rep checked also seemed to have this issue. Basically, that when moved into the "off" position, the switch stays there and does not spring back to the center position.
I appreciate the two responses. It'd be helpful if others could check this and report. Thanks!
-
Not had this issue as yet. I've only used my unit out in the field half a dozen times at most though so I've not really used that hold switch too much.
-
I don't have this problem. The spring takes it back to the center. But I don't bother with the Hold button since I keep the unit in a belt pack.
I tried it for you, though, and even when I unclick Hold and push it down to the end of the slot, I have to hold it for a full 3 seconds before power shuts down, making it very difficult to accidentally shut off the PCM-M10.
If your unit is under warranty Sony should fix/replace it.
-
I also do not have this issue and I have had mine for about a year and a half.
-
Thanks!
Got the RMA, sending it back. Hope the new one doesn't have the issue. And I also hope they don't give me any grief about the condition, since it is no longer "as new" - I've been using it for a couple weeks. The paint on the front of the m10 can scratch, where the r09 is molded plastic and doesn't show minor scratches.
It isn't a Huge problem, but it is a problem. Especially with a 16GB card, because it slows the boot process significantly. When the subject you are recording is ready, and you switch off hold and end up shutting down.. it's awkward to say "wait - I'm not ready, I need to restart the recorder!" Awkward! And if it's a performer coming on stage, you can't say wait. And at 24/96, I am less inclined to roll continuously.
-
Did some searches, but haven't found a silicone (or other) skin for the m10. Anyone seen anything?
Cases are okay, but they don't allow access to controls and meters. Since the m10 has some metal bits, I'd like to not worry about it scratching other gear, etc.
-
Have had no problems with the switch in any position.
Also....I cut a tiny, exact size piece of Velcro and fastened it on top of the slider (ditto the two tiny volume controls). The velcro (rough side) adds more 'body" and makes it easier to manipulate the small switch(s).
A lesson learned and carried over from using MinDisc portables. The velcro should stay on for a long time.
I cant picture this. Got a pic?
-
Anyone try using a 32gig card in an M10??
-
yes, no issues on the 32gb
-
8) What brand are you using??
-
8) What brand are you usint??
Comprehensive and growing list of cards for the M10: Sony M10 MicroSD Card Summary (what works and doesn't) (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=147879.0)
-
There is only 1 32gig card on the list! So I am curious as to what other brands would work.
-
tonedeaf is using a 32gb MicroSDHC Card. Not sure which brand...
-
tonedeaf is using a 32gb MicroSDHC Card. Not sure which brand...
I was waiting to report because I've only used my new M10 twice now, but so far the 32gb card works fine. It's a PNY Class 10. Here's the link to the card I bought.
https://secure.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=PNMSD32GB10&N=0&InitialSearch=yes
I also bought this card reader, which also seems to work just peachy!
https://secure.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=IOGFR204SD&N=0&InitialSearch=yes
(EDIT: Updated to add my card to the list.)
-
Thanks for the info, Steve :)
So, how do you like running PSP3>M10, thus far? Your back will thank you later, trust me :)
-
tonedeaf is using a 32gb MicroSDHC Card. Not sure which brand...
I was waiting to report because I've only used my new M10 twice now, but so far the 32gb card works fine. It's a PNY Class 10. Here's the link to the card I bought.
https://secure.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=PNMSD32GB10&N=0&InitialSearch=yes
I also bought this card reader, which also seems to work just peachy!
https://secure.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=IOGFR204SD&N=0&InitialSearch=yes
(EDIT: Updated to add my card to the list.)
^
Steve - Are you running 24/48 with this Class 10 card?
-
8) What brand are you using??
Sandisk 32GB class 4
-
tonedeaf is using a 32gb MicroSDHC Card. Not sure which brand...
I was waiting to report because I've only used my new M10 twice now, but so far the 32gb card works fine. It's a PNY Class 10. Here's the link to the card I bought.
https://secure.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=PNMSD32GB10&N=0&InitialSearch=yes
I also bought this card reader, which also seems to work just peachy!
https://secure.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=IOGFR204SD&N=0&InitialSearch=yes
(EDIT: Updated to add my card to the list.)
^
Steve - Are you running 24/48 with this Class 10 card?
Yes, he is :)
-
I had a few defective/insurance replacement Droid X's, that came with 16GB cards. The warranty/insurance returns all specified to keep the battery and memory card, just send the phone back. Unintentionally I ended up with a stash of 16GB MicroSD's. It was one of the deciding factors in my decision to buy the M10.
Anyway, I seem ok running 24/96 on these SanDisk 16GB Class4 cards. I have a class2 8GB SanDisk I have not tried yet...
:)
-
Interested in trading one of the 16gig MicroSD for an 8gig SDHC and cash??
I had a few defective/insurance replacement Droid X's, that came with 16GB cards. The warranty/insurance returns all specified to keep the battery and memory card, just send the phone back. Unintentionally I ended up with a stash of 16GB MicroSD's. It was one of the deciding factors in my decision to buy the M10.
Anyway, I seem ok running 24/96 on these SanDisk 16GB Class4 cards. I have a class2 8GB SanDisk I have not tried yet...
:)
-
tonedeaf is using a 32gb MicroSDHC Card. Not sure which brand...
I was waiting to report because I've only used my new M10 twice now, but so far the 32gb card works fine. It's a PNY Class 10. Here's the link to the card I bought.
https://secure.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=PNMSD32GB10&N=0&InitialSearch=yes
I also bought this card reader, which also seems to work just peachy!
https://secure.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=IOGFR204SD&N=0&InitialSearch=yes
(EDIT: Updated to add my card to the list.)
^
Steve - Are you running 24/48 with this Class 10 card?
Yes.
-
I had some strangeness with my PCM-M10 las night and did a quick search, but didn't see any posts with this issue.
I was recording a band with CAFS-Omnis > PCM-M10 so I was not looking at the recorder during the show. After the show when I powered off the recorder, I noticed that the upper 1/3 - 1/2 of the screen didn't look right...it was mirror image, dark with light text. By the time I noticed this, I had already slid the power switch so I didn't get a good view of the exact display issue, although I did note that it took longer than usual to power off.
While riding home, I decided to play back from the PCM-M10. The recording was about 2 hours long. I fast forwarded through the 1st 30 min which was before the band started. The show sounded great, but then around the 90 min mark, the recording began to sound funny. It sounded almost like it was skipping. This 'skipping' continues for the rest of the recording. When I got home, I loaded into Audacity to look at the waveform and it does not have breaks. I also listened closer and essentially it sounds like the recording is just missing segments of maybe 1/2 second or so. The sound before and after the gap are seemlessly (on the waveform) blended together.
Has anyone else seen this? I am using a Ridata 8 GB card and recording to the card before internal memory. I have been using the card for probably 9-12 months without any problems with maybe 2-4 shows a month. I had reformatted the card (via USB cable) on Saturday. I then recorded a couple sets on Saturday night. I hadn't had a chance to process those sets before last night so I did not format before this show. The two sets from Saturday do not exhibit this problem.
I suppose I can think of a few possibilities.
1. My card is dying.
2. The recorder got too hot (I normally run open) or otherwise randomly glitched. (I did not notice the recorder as being particularly hot when I powered it down.)
3. The recorder is dying.
Any suggestions?
-
I don't have any specific experience with your issue, but I think the school of thought on formatting the card is to do it using the built-in function of the recorder, not via the computer.
-
I'm wondering if the issue isn't that your card is too slow and that you nearly filled it up. Since you had two other shows on your card, maybe the card started to get full towards the end of the third show that you recorded onto the card. As the card fills up, the sectors also get full and your machine has to start searching for free sectors. If the card isn't fast enough or if the machine can't write fast enough, buffers are filled and the card can't catch up so you lose data. Just a thought.
In the past, I've also seen issues if you simply delete a show but don't reformat the card afterwards...in other words, you think you're starting with a clean card but it's actually still full of old sector information. What happens in that case is that the cards sectors are still I think somehow reserved for the deleted show (for an undelete for example), so once again the new recording needs to skip around to find free sectors. The recording didn't turn out because the recorder/card can't buffer itself through the sector searches fast enough to prevent data loss. In that case, a card re-format solved the problem.
-
I don't have any specific experience with your issue, but I think the school of thought on formatting the card is to do it using the built-in function of the recorder, not via the computer.
Always... always... always. And this goes for Digital Camera, Cell Phones, etc. Always format the card in the device it's being used in otherwise expect problems; maybe not immediately but when you least expect it (and can't afford data loss).
-
I format the card I use in the M10 every few shows... which is an improvement over the R1 days, where you had to do it after every show
-
I, too, re-format the cards in my M10 before EVERY RECORDING ;)
-
I format my card whenever I've filled it up enough (i.e., less than enough room to roll on the next show). :)
-
I format my card between samples. :P
-
I format my card between samples. :P
Impressive. Very impressive.
-
I had some strangeness with my PCM-M10 las night and did a quick search, but didn't see any posts with this issue.
I was recording a band with CAFS-Omnis > PCM-M10 so I was not looking at the recorder during the show. After the show when I powered off the recorder, I noticed that the upper 1/3 - 1/2 of the screen didn't look right...it was mirror image, dark with light text.
The text displays that way if you switch to Auto Level from Manual. So maybe it was some combination of formatting problems and the unit trying to adjust levels.
-
I, too, re-format the cards in my M10 before EVERY RECORDING ;)
I've used my M10 for about 3-4 shows now and i've never reformatted my card. I'm guessing it will be a good idea to do that now
-
I, too, re-format the cards in my M10 before EVERY RECORDING ;)
I've used my M10 for about 3-4 shows now and i've never reformatted my card. I'm guessing it will be a good idea to do that now
Better safe than sorry :)
-
I format my card whenever I've filled it up enough (i.e., less than enough room to roll on the next show). :)
No offense, but this might not be the best strategy although if you've never had any problems, I guess no issue. Like I mentioned before, when a card starts getting filled, there are fewer available sectors and a search is performed for free sectors which may cause your recorder to have to search around the card to write data. That search takes time and if the data buffer fills in the meantime, you'll get music drop-outs. It's never happened to me, but it happened alot to my son-in-law. Before me and Bean told him to reformat his card, he was ready to throw his recorder out because it had become so balky, but the only issue was that he didn't re-format so his card/recorder was constantly jumping all over the place patching together a show, but he'd never get much recorded before the recorder would freeze up.
-
I format my card whenever I've filled it up enough (i.e., less than enough room to roll on the next show). :)
No offense, but this might not be the best strategy although if you've never had any problems, I guess no issue. Like I mentioned before, when a card starts getting filled, there are fewer available sectors and a search is performed for free sectors which may cause your recorder to have to search around the card to write data. That search takes time and if the data buffer fills in the meantime, you'll get music drop-outs."
Depends on the speed of the card being used as well. I have a Transcend 8GB card in my M10 (rated class 6) but it's read/write speed is closer to class 18/19. I also make a habit of only hitting start and stop once per act and the recorder is then only writing sequentially and I don't erase and then re-record over "used space" hence why I don't have issues but I could see where, with a slower card, this could happen.
-
^ Yeah for sure. I'm sure that's what happened with my son-in-law, but for full-disclosure his recorder isn't an M-10, it's a micro-crapper II.
-
^ Yeah for sure. I'm sure that's what happened with my son-in-law, but for full-disclosure his recorder isn't an M-10, it's a micro-crapper II.
Well, I did see a slow write message on my R09 at one point (using a Patriot Class 6 card that benchmarked just over that). So, any slower card _can_ be a problem.
-
Thanks for all the suggestions. I have played around with it a bit and am convinced that the card was the issue. In playing around with it I reformatted the card using the recorder rather than via usb. After I did this, I noticed that when powering on the recorder, it now showed the 'accessing card' graphic for a much shorter time. Not sure of the details, but I'll certainly be formatting via the recorder from now on.
-
Fyi, I received my replacement m10 from B&H. The replacement unit does not have the sticking problem with the power switch. The switch on the new one is a bit unsmooth when moved, but not sticky enough to overcome the spring action.
The swap with B&H was kinda slow. I really wish Amazon sold these. I would have paid more for their service.
-
Anyone else having trouble with a sticky hold/on-off button?
Not at all, but thanks to your warning, I'll stop flicking the power switch into the "off" position briefly in order to make the backlight come on when recording in dark conditions! I like the idea of the velcro on the volume switches, when they're easier to find, they're the perfect thing to use to get the backlight on, long as I don't have a "headphone out" patcher!
also, fwiw, I picked up some 16GB Sandisk M2 cards for a little over $16 each, and they work fine at all bitrates, but are slooooooow on the file transfers. ESPECIALLY if you try to write to 'em like a thumbdrive. Goes to show you just how little bandwidth audio recording actually requires!
ps OOH Sony, I'm really scared of the warning on page 9 of the PDF manual!
-
ps OOH Sony, I'm really scared of the warning on page 9 of the PDF manual!
LOL. I haven't even read the darn thing because it's that intuitive/self explanatory. Maybe there are some other gems in there, too. :)
-
Anyone else having trouble with a sticky hold/on-off button?
Not at all, but thanks to your warning, I'll stop flicking the power switch into the "off" position briefly in order to make the backlight come on when recording in dark conditions! I like the idea of the velcro on the volume switches, when they're easier to find, they're the perfect thing to use to get the backlight on, long as I don't have a "headphone out" patcher!
I just push the display button to get the backlight to come on.
-
Stupid question... I recorded last night and if I press play I can hear it... but if I plug into the usb and look in the folder I can't find my recording... Where is it? and How do I get it out? Am I just stupid?
-
The M10 shows up as two drives.
One drive will be the internal 4GB storage
The other will be the memory card
The default folder will be Folder One, which is buried inside Private/Sony/ or something. (Away from my recorder right now)
Each file is titled by it's record date/time.
-
Yup... Thats it... only looked at PCMRECORDER.. it also showed up as a "removable disk" Thats why I love this place. Thanx Scoob +T
-
You will get MUCH BETTER transfer speeds if you go purchase a little Targus/etc. card reader compared to transferring from the M10>PC/Mac :) ;D
-
Yeah, but I'm afraid if I take that little card out, I'll sneeze and never see it again.
-
Yeah, but I'm afraid if I take that little card out, I'll sneeze and never see it again.
Dont be, I take mine out all the time... but from experience, make sure to put the card in as pictured on back of the unit.... as the microSD slot will allow the card to go in the wrong way
-
Yeah, I'd say just be diligent about making sure the card never gets put anywhere but inside the m10 or the card reader and you'd never have trouble losing it. One reason I did buy a 32gb card though was that I hope to minimize the number of card change-outs for festival recording. I can see how you'd want to be extra careful about putting the card somewhere safe so that when you get home and want to download to your computer, you know exactly where the little booger is.
-
Yeah, I'd say just be diligent about making sure the card never gets put anywhere but inside the m10 or the card reader and you'd never have trouble losing it. One reason I did buy a 32gb card though was that I hope to minimize the number of card change-outs for festival recording. I can see how you'd want to be extra careful about putting the card somewhere safe so that when you get home and want to download to your computer, you know exactly where the little booger is.
So a 32gb SDHC will work in the M10? I thought it only was supported for 16gb max?
-
So a 32gb SDHC will work in the M10? I thought it only was supported for 16gb max?
Yeepers
-
So a 32gb SDHC will work in the M10? I thought it only was supported for 16gb max?
Yeepers
-
I think it will support any size, so if they come out with 64GB miniSD, those should work also.
-
Word of warning...
I took my microsd card out of the m10 and put it in my card reader just a little askew and I had to use pliers to yank the card out. The card was fine but then I decided not to use the card reader any more. ;)
-
So a 32gb SDHC will work in the M10? I thought it only was supported for 16gb max?
I just bought a Sandisk 32GB microSD card yesterday for my Drift HD camera and thought I'd try it out in my PCM-M10 for the hell of it. Worked no problem.
As a general rule of thumb, I can't imagine there being an issue with devices that can at least address 8GB cards.
-
Word of warning...
I took my microsd card out of the m10 and put it in my card reader just a little askew and I had to use pliers to yank the card out. The card was fine but then I decided not to use the card reader any more. ;)
My Sandisk card reader is no better. My microSD card slot leaves only 2mm of card out so I have to use pliers every time. Disappointing but hey, at least it functions as a card reader should.
-
Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but noticed one of my 24 bit recordings (a sbd recording) after encoding to flac and to 16 bit, the file size was pretty low (271mb for 16 files, 1 hour 34 minute show). Also saw this - http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=549154 also a 24 to 16 bit recording from a sony pcm-m10 that seems that the file size was low (515mb for a 2 hour 45 minute show).
Is this common with the sony pcm-m10 recorder? Maybe i'm overlooking something
-
^^^ Are the files coming off the M10 the right size (~ 1.5 GB for 1 hr 34 m at 24/48, maybe 1.4 for 24/44.1)? What level of compression are you using?
Word of warning...
I took my microsd card out of the m10 and put it in my card reader just a little askew and I had to use pliers to yank the card out. The card was fine but then I decided not to use the card reader any more. ;)
My Sandisk card reader is no better. My microSD card slot leaves only 2mm of card out so I have to use pliers every time. Disappointing but hey, at least it functions as a card reader should.
I have been using an SD adapter for the microSD and then inserting that into a card reader. Works well and it is easy to pull the microSD from the adapter...
-
Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but noticed one of my 24 bit recordings (a sbd recording) after encoding to flac and to 16 bit, the file size was pretty low (271mb for 16 files, 1 hour 34 minute show). Also saw this - http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=549154 also a 24 to 16 bit recording from a sony pcm-m10 that seems that the file size was low (515mb for a 2 hour 45 minute show).
Is this common with the sony pcm-m10 recorder? Maybe i'm overlooking something
I can see this happening; it's nothing to do with your M10 (all digital recorders do this). When you're recording from the desk at 24/48 and then dumb down (or record at 16/44), a desk recording usually doesn't have a lot of "special" frequencies or separation between channels. In fact, if your board feed was closer to a MONO feed, FLAC can almost dumb it down to one-channel's worth of bandwidth and then add the extra bits it needs. hen you have an audience pull, the frequencies are more involved and more separate in each channel making FLAC's life harder and you'll usually see a compression rate (at FLAC 8) of maybe 65-70% of the original file size.
Hope I've helped.
-
Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but noticed one of my 24 bit recordings (a sbd recording) after encoding to flac and to 16 bit, the file size was pretty low (271mb for 16 files, 1 hour 34 minute show). Also saw this - http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=549154 also a 24 to 16 bit recording from a sony pcm-m10 that seems that the file size was low (515mb for a 2 hour 45 minute show).
Is this common with the sony pcm-m10 recorder? Maybe i'm overlooking something
I can see this happening; it's nothing to do with your M10 (all digital recorders do this). When you're recording from the desk at 24/48 and then dumb down (or record at 16/44), a desk recording usually doesn't have a lot of "special" frequencies or separation between channels. In fact, if your board feed was closer to a MONO feed, FLAC can almost dumb it down to one-channel's worth of bandwidth and then add the extra bits it needs. hen you have an audience pull, the frequencies are more involved and more separate in each channel making FLAC's life harder and you'll usually see a compression rate (at FLAC 8) of maybe 65-70% of the original file size.
Hope I've helped.
I'm an idiot. It was a mono feed I was getting. Completely forgot that I had split it to stereo in post. (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_QLmTvoA2uXY/Rxei7Iv5wCI/AAAAAAAAACM/MSTCSdMbL_o/s320/TrekFacepalm.gif)
The above info does help out though as i'm pretty new to board recordings.
-
internal mics on the Sony pcm-10 are very good in my opinon if you are in the sweet spot when stealthing, looking for reasons to add external's for stealth recording please provide Constructive criticism of this recording..pm's welcomed.. ;D
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3425026/jacksonbrowne%202011-10-12.zip
-
Hello everyone!
Just discovered this forum after searching for info on the M10. Today I returned an M10 that was recording hotter on the left internal mic than the right. When at the store, we tried another unit and it did the same thing. Has anyone noticed this with their M10?
-
^yes. I was surprised to find that the channels danced so differently on the meters, considering the mics are so close together. The left does seem to peak a little hotter, though the overall balance isn't as bad. It isn't audible.
-
internal mics on the Sony pcm-10 are very good in my opinon if you are in the sweet spot when stealthing, looking for reasons to add external's for stealth recording please provide Constructive criticism of this recording..pm's welcomed.. ;D
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3425026/jacksonbrowne%202011-10-12.zip
The fidelity of the recording sounds surprisingly good to me. I would be more than happy with recordings of this quality while saving up for external mics. However I hear no stereo separation in the recording (the result of using omni mics spaced only a few inches apart).
I find recordings with stereo separation much more enjoyable to listen to even in cases where the monitors are basically producing a mono sound and you only notice the separation in the room ambiance. I would recommend trying good external mics for that reason alone, besides their other benefits.
-
Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but noticed one of my 24 bit recordings (a sbd recording) after encoding to flac and to 16 bit, the file size was pretty low (271mb for 16 files, 1 hour 34 minute show). Also saw this - http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=549154 also a 24 to 16 bit recording from a sony pcm-m10 that seems that the file size was low (515mb for a 2 hour 45 minute show).
Is this common with the sony pcm-m10 recorder? Maybe i'm overlooking something
i noticed soming weird a few times with my m10 and fr2le files sizes
both recording the same show, both started/stopped within seconds of each other, both 24/48...
the files sizes on my desktop where 1.3 and 1.5 gb with the m10 being smaller
they both sounded fine so i didn't worry to much
-
internal mics on the Sony pcm-10 are very good in my opinon if you are in the sweet spot when stealthing, looking for reasons to add external's for stealth recording please provide Constructive criticism of this recording..pm's welcomed.. ;D
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3425026/jacksonbrowne%202011-10-12.zip
The fidelity of the recording sounds surprisingly good to me. I would be more than happy with recordings of this quality while saving up for external mics. However I hear no stereo separation in the recording (the result of using omni mics spaced only a few inches apart).
I find recordings with stereo separation much more enjoyable to listen to even in cases where the monitors are basically producing a mono sound and you only notice the separation in the room ambiance. I would recommend trying good external mics for that reason alone, besides their other benefits.
There is a free VST plugin that can help open up the stereo image of the M10. http://rekkerd.org/matthew-lindsay-ncl-phase-eq/
Here is more information from the M10 FAQ.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=147551.msg1891497#msg1891497
-
^yes. I was surprised to find that the channels danced so differently on the meters, considering the mics are so close together. The left does seem to peak a little hotter, though the overall balance isn't as bad. It isn't audible.
Thanks for the reply. I am surprised that this might be normal operation for the unit. Has anyone else noticed this with their M10s?
-
Wow--I can't believe I've finally made it through all the posts of this multi-volume thread in the last few hours! Anyway, this is my first post here, and I'm hoping you guys can confirm something for me...
I've been looking to replace my Zoom H4n and am considering the Sony D50 and M10. I use the Zoom primarily to record classical concerts (mostly opera) in small-to-medium sized venues using the internal mics. (Externals are not an option at the moment.) I've actually been pretty pleased with the results, save for some all-too-obvious self-noise from the Zoom. I'm sure the D50 would improve in that respect (and I assume its internal mics would be better as well) but from what I've been reading and hearing, the M10 might fit the bill as well. From the recorded samples made with the M10's internal mics that I've heard around the internet, I've been really struck by its really low noise floor. In fact, listening via high-quality headphones to the "noise floor" samples on the Wingfield Audio site (http://www.wingfieldaudio.com/portable-recorder-noise.html#samples), the M10 was clearly quieter than the D50, which astounded me. Are the internal mics and preamps of the M10 really that quiet? I know the lack of a cohesive stereo image is a problem, and that alone might tip the balance in favor of the D50, but the quietness of the M10 is sure appealing.....
-
Wow--I can't believe I've finally made it through all the posts of this multi-volume thread in the last few hours! Anyway, this is my first post here, and I'm hoping you guys can confirm something for me...
I've been looking to replace my Zoom H4n and am considering the Sony D50 and M10. I use the Zoom primarily to record classical concerts (mostly opera) in small-to-medium sized venues using the internal mics. (Externals are not an option at the moment.) I've actually been pretty pleased with the results, save for some all-too-obvious self-noise from the Zoom. I'm sure the D50 would improve in that respect (and I assume its internal mics would be better as well) but from what I've been reading and hearing, the M10 might fit the bill as well. From the recorded samples made with the M10's internal mics that I've heard around the internet, I've been really struck by its really low noise floor. In fact, listening via high-quality headphones to the "noise floor" samples on the Wingfield Audio site (http://www.wingfieldaudio.com/portable-recorder-noise.html#samples), the M10 was clearly quieter than the D50, which astounded me. Are the internal mics and preamps of the M10 really that quiet? I know the lack of a cohesive stereo image is a problem, and that alone might tip the balance in favor of the D50, but the quietness of the M10 is sure appealing.....
http://kennedy-williams.net/scoobiesnax/2011/10/rockin-teenage-combo-shadowlands/
is one of my first recordings with the M10 using onboard omnis. This was mic'ed 2-3 feet from drummer.
http://www.archive.org/details/pk2011-08-05.M10.flac16
The previous night is a great performance, the noise is because I mis-estimated levels and wasn't in position to tweak during performance.
http://www.archive.org/details/nm2011-08-13.flac16
here is a recording with my Avantone CK-1 with a Denecke PS-2 phantom power supply into the M10 preamp on low setting.
http://www.archive.org/details/hips2011-10-14.flac16
I love the unit, it's small, it goes a long time on 2 AA batteries, and it sounds great.
;D
-
Word of warning...
I took my microsd card out of the m10 and put it in my card reader just a little askew and I had to use pliers to yank the card out. The card was fine but then I decided not to use the card reader any more. ;)
My Sandisk card reader is no better. My microSD card slot leaves only 2mm of card out so I have to use pliers every time. Disappointing but hey, at least it functions as a card reader should.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41lcgY%2B1gUL.jpg)
I have this Kingston reader, and to remove the MicroSD, you PUSH IT IN and it will then click out. All the other sockets on it are just push to insert, pull to release.
-
I use this one:
http://www.amazon.com/IOGEAR-MicroSD-Reader-Writer-GFR204SD/dp/B0046TJG1U/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1319435082&sr=8-6
It doesn't seem to be too finicky for card insertion, and enough of the MicroSD sticks out to make it easy to remove. For me, the biggest bonus is the size, it hardly takes up any space in the gear bag.
-
I use the same card reader as morst and there was definitely no way of pushing the card in to get it unstuck but usually you can press it in and it will pop out.
I like the one you have bryonsos because it looks like cards won't get stuck so easily. ;)
-
how much faster/slower is the m10 vs the reader?
i always use the m10 and it doesn't seem to take more then about 6-8 minutes to transfer a show
if getting the card stuck and needing pliers is going to save me a few minutes - doesn't seem worth it imo
-
I've found my reader to be ~2X faster than using the cable.
-
I've found my reader to be ~2X faster than using the cable.
I find my card reader is about 6-8x faster than using the card in the M10 via USB. My card reader is an internal 24-in-1 job that fits in a floppy drive bay and runs on SATA (that has much to do with the speed boost).
-
I thought someone said that card speed makes a difference in download speeds when downloading directly from the Sony, but maybe I don't remember correctly.
Anyway, I've heard some people say it takes close to an hour to download a show directly from their m10, but less than 10 minutes with a reader.
Me, I've always used the reader with my 32GB Class 10 card (probably 10 shows now under my belt with the m10) and it takes about 5 minutes to download a 2GB file.
-
Are the internal mics and preamps of the M10 really that quiet? I know the lack of a cohesive stereo image is a problem, and that alone might tip the balance in favor of the D50, but the quietness of the M10 is sure appealing.....
Congratulations on making it this far through the threads!
Hmmm, your question is a tricky one. Indeed the M10 mics are very quiet, that partly being due to their omni design (it's easier to make a cheap quiet omni than a cheap quiet cardioid). But the tradeoff is, as you state, poor stereo image. And you get a more "roomy" sound because it's picking up room reflections from all directions. But if you are in the audience some way back in an operatic performance, maybe stereo image isn't going to be that important anyway as the width from your seat to the stage won't be that much?
Heaven knows how you'd conceal anything bigger than an M10 anyway - even that when working on its internal mics would be pretty compromised soundwise by being hidden.
-
Aside from the risk of needing to use pliers to extract a microSD from a card reader, I always transfer via the M10 to reduce the number of insertions/extractions the card (and the M10's card slot) has to go through.
Probably just being over-cautious but the contacts seem like exactly the sort of component that would gradually wear out and then let you down at the worst possible moment...
-
I get about 1MB/Sec w/ my M10, and around 15MB/Sec w/ my Targus card reader :)
-
Are the internal mics and preamps of the M10 really that quiet? I know the lack of a cohesive stereo image is a problem, and that alone might tip the balance in favor of the D50, but the quietness of the M10 is sure appealing.....
Congratulations on making it this far through the threads!
Hmmm, your question is a tricky one. Indeed the M10 mics are very quiet, that partly being due to their omni design (it's easier to make a cheap quiet omni than a cheap quiet cardioid). But the tradeoff is, as you state, poor stereo image. And you get a more "roomy" sound because it's picking up room reflections from all directions. But if you are in the audience some way back in an operatic performance, maybe stereo image isn't going to be that important anyway as the width from your seat to the stage won't be that much?
Heaven knows how you'd conceal anything bigger than an M10 anyway - even that when working on its internal mics would be pretty compromised soundwise by being hidden.
Thanks--that's what I suspected. I ended up ordering a D50, mainly because I liked the wide-open sound from its internal mics, as opposed to the boxy sound of the M10's internals. (This is all based on samples I've listened to on the internet.) (And FWIW, I wouldn't be overtly 'concealing' the recorder, but I'd still be in the audience. (These are amateur, small-company, shoestring-budget gigs where I would be recording a friend's performances.))
-
My iMac has a slot for standard SD cards (as does my Ubuntu Netbook), and using a microSD card with an adapter- wors like a charm, though I do also have a card reader.
It's certainly much faster then trying to load from the M-10 (or any unit itself) worth the $10 buck or so if your computer does not come with a built in SD card slot, as many now do.
--Ian
-
PSA:
Tape over your auto levels switch. I was always fine in the past but had some issues the other night. Probably a bit more of a factor of my attire, but even if you never run your M10 in an article of clothing there is no reason not to.
-
PSA:
Tape over your auto levels switch. I was always fine in the past but had some issues the other night. Probably a bit more of a factor of my attire, but even if you never run your M10 in an article of clothing there is no reason not to.
Yeah, all my buttons on the back are taped over w/ packaging tape. I need to get some gaff tape :P Where is the best place to get a good deal on 2" gaff tape ???
-
Good advice, Mike. I taped over mine about a month ago just so I could stop checking them before every show.
-
Good advice, Mike. I taped over mine about a month ago just so I could stop checking them between each song
FTFY :P
-
http://www.tapestockonline.com/gaffers-tape-.html
-
http://www.tapestockonline.com/gaffers-tape-.html
you can buy it at guitar center for those prices
but i have not seen it under 12-15 in a long time so maybe 20ish is the going rate now
-
Permacel, best brand of gaff. strong, adhesive works well in wide range of temperatures, and the adhesive doesn't gum up gear.
http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1SNNT_enUS359US359&aq=f&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=permacel+672#q=permacel+672&hl=en&rlz=1C1SNNT_enUS359US359&prmd=imvns&source=univ&tbm=shop&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=79y2TobROqOPiAK_uejRAw&ved=0CGsQrQQ&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.,cf.osb&fp=204c061e6e877599&biw=1086&bih=569
-
+T guys! Is there anywhere local to buy it ala WalMart/Target/etc ??? There isnt a GC near me so.....
-
+T guys! Is there anywhere local to buy it ala WalMart/Target/etc ??? There isnt a GC near me so.....
Music stores, theatrical supply houses, but mail order is probably best bet.
-
+T guys! Is there anywhere local to buy it ala WalMart/Target/etc ??? There isnt a GC near me so.....
Music stores, theatrical supply houses, but mail order is probably best bet.
Yeah, I agree. I have never seen any at a regular box store but I did pick up a roll at a local production house years ago before i discovered taping.
-
+T guys! Is there anywhere local to buy it ala WalMart/Target/etc ??? There isnt a GC near me so.....
Music stores, theatrical supply houses, but mail order is probably best bet.
Yeah, I agree. I have never seen any at a regular box store but I did pick up a roll at a local production house years ago before i discovered taping.
Not the easiest stuff to come by. If I can throw another source into the ring, B&H also has it. I've been using just the general brand 2" for the past few years and it works great. Prices are pretty good, too. > http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=gaffers+tape&N=0&InitialSearch=yes (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=gaffers+tape&N=0&InitialSearch=yes)
-
+T B&H has the best selection and prices :)
-
I just ordered 2 rolls from http://www.findtape.com/ .
-
This thread is now so long I'm not sure if anyone else has posted this
FYI:
http://kenrockwell.com/audio/sony/pcm-m10.htm#perf
this guy usually posts about photo gear (his main work backround is in pro video sales and design). His post on the M-10 is generally appreciative, but since he's proud of not having read the manual, he makes a few mistakes about usage and features (e.g. he praises the 'true - spaced pair - stereo'.
I include the link because he used some decent pro test gear to make some measurements that may be useful or of interest to other users here.
TG
-
Only 16-bit he writes...
-
I used to like reading reading reviews and watching videos on some particular gadget I possibly wanted, but then I came to the conclusion the person doing the review doesn't actually know a lot about it. A site dedicated to a specific thing like cameras or audio recorders could be different, but really I think they are writing the reviews to have something on their site, not to actually care about the product.
-
This thread is now so long I'm not sure if anyone else has posted this
FYI:
http://kenrockwell.com/audio/sony/pcm-m10.htm#perf
this guy usually posts about photo gear (his main work backround is in pro video sales and design). His post on the M-10 is generally appreciative, but since he's proud of not having read the manual, he makes a few mistakes about usage and features (e.g. he praises the 'true - spaced pair - stereo'.
I include the link because he used some decent pro test gear to make some measurements that may be useful or of interest to other users here.
TG
Ken is in the business of page views. His photo reviews are as inaccurate as the M-10 review. In general, he's become a bit of joke among experienced photographers. That said, he praises an excellent recorder.
-
I can't disagree with those comments about Ken's content. However, his gear pages are sometimes useful and they are at least uncluttered and generally to the point.
I actually think some of the test results on the m10 were quite useful. Particularly the test data on the gain structure. The bit about changing channel balance was interesting. I do wonder if he actually did the tests or if it was more of a placement piece. It would be interesting to see some of the tests compare 16 vs. 24 bit.
-
I can't disagree with those comments about Ken's content. However, his gear pages are sometimes useful and they are at least uncluttered and generally to the point.
I actually think some of the test results on the m10 were quite useful. Particularly the test data on the gain structure. The bit about changing channel balance was interesting. I do wonder if he actually did the tests or if it was more of a placement piece. It would be interesting to see some of the tests compare 16 vs. 24 bit.
I can agree here. What do we think about the 16-bit statement?
-
not sure if anyone else is having problems with their new Sonys like me, but please let me know if so, my d50 is freezing up, nothing happening until I pull the battery pack and reinsert it. Either will not start recording or will not stop. I'm thinking its something internally wrong with the locking function. Only 2 years old and light usage. Sony not a lot of help, other than "send it in and minimum charge to even look at it is " THERE IS A ONE-HOUR DIAGNOSTIC CHARGE OF $135 PLUS RETURN SHIPPING AND SALES TAX FOR DECLINED ESTIMATES"--pretty dickish, IMO ???
-
A bench fee for a non-warranty repair is not unreasonable. $135 is on the high side. And they want you to pay for shipping back if you choose not to purchase their services.
Not too unreasonable, but not among my favorite customer service policies.
My favorites.
Shure - Flat fee based on the piece of equipment. You know exactly what it will cost up front.
Yamaha - The M7CL-48 boards ran into issues 6-7 years ago where they would lock up during outdoor shows in the sun. 120+ degrees F type conditions. This was outside the M7CL's operating specs. They gave us two options. One, send it back to them for a free retrofit. Two, let them send you the parts for the retrofit, and Yamaha would pay you to perform the labor. Mind you this was for a component that was still operating within design specs.
-
new member here - plan to run the schoeps vms02ib (via BNC > 1/8") into the line-in of the m10.
what a TINY device/rig now, soo thrilled.
what are folks doing to preserve the actual case, preventing damage?
anyone getting the neoprene sleeve or the sony 'box' that is sold on ebay?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v168/tedgerto/ideal_smaller.jpg)
please ignore my crude drawing, mearly a picture for size
-
what are folks doing to preserve the actual case, preventing damage?
anyone getting the neoprene sleeve or the sony 'box' that is sold on ebay?
I think a lot of us are using small camera cases. I'm using the Lowepro Ridge 20 (the 30 provides a little more room), which fits the recorder like a glove and has room for memory cards and a few batteries. I got it for under $10 at a sports retail store. I refuse to buy the Sony box since it was originally offered free with the purchase and I bought mine too late. :P
-
I use a lowepro GPS case. Fits like a glove and the zipper is as such that it can be shut almost completely, just leaving the line-in/mic-in open (or the headphone)
-
I, too, use a small LowePro camera case, with a front panel to hold cards :)
-
please ignore my crude drawing
I'm trying to Todd, but it's such a piece of art! :crazy:
-
I LOVE My M10 so much, I now have 2 of them[red/black], You will LOVE ITS SIMPLICITY Todd :) You might even buy a 2nd one and run 4 chan like me :) I just need a preamp for my Busman BSC2's now and I'm all set to run 4 channel!
-
I LOVE My M10 so much, I now have 2 of them[red/black], You will LOVE ITS SIMPLICITY Todd :) You might even buy a 2nd one and run 4 chan like me :) I just need a preamp for my Busman BSC2's now and I'm all set to run 4 channel!
how in the world are you running 4ch?
as much as i've read, no time-code or clock to slave off of, so just two rigs or one for sbd and one for aud?
-
I LOVE My M10 so much, I now have 2 of them[red/black], You will LOVE ITS SIMPLICITY Todd :) You might even buy a 2nd one and run 4 chan like me :) I just need a preamp for my Busman BSC2's now and I'm all set to run 4 channel!
how in the world are you running 4ch?
as much as i've read, no time-code or clock to slave off of, so just two rigs or one for sbd and one for aud?
I run mk41>Sonosax>M10 & Busman BSC2 Actives>?>M10. Just need a preamp for the Busmans. And I have NO PLANS of matrixing the 2 sources together, so [2] M10's was the bet route for me :)
-
I LOVE My M10 so much, I now have 2 of them[red/black], You will LOVE ITS SIMPLICITY Todd :) You might even buy a 2nd one and run 4 chan like me :) I just need a preamp for my Busman BSC2's now and I'm all set to run 4 channel!
how in the world are you running 4ch?
as much as i've read, no time-code or clock to slave off of, so just two rigs or one for sbd and one for aud?
I run mk41>Sonosax>M10 & Busman BSC2 Actives>?>M10. Just need a preamp for the Busmans. And I have NO PLANS of matrixing the 2 sources together, so [2] M10's was the bet route for me :)
scratches head? one of them should produce better results everytime, right? ;-)
-
please ignore my crude drawing
I'm trying to Todd, but it's such a piece of art! :crazy:
at least he got it in the right hole
-
I LOVE My M10 so much, I now have 2 of them[red/black], You will LOVE ITS SIMPLICITY Todd :) You might even buy a 2nd one and run 4 chan like me :) I just need a preamp for my Busman BSC2's now and I'm all set to run 4 channel!
how in the world are you running 4ch?
as much as i've read, no time-code or clock to slave off of, so just two rigs or one for sbd and one for aud?
I run mk41>Sonosax>M10 & Busman BSC2 Actives>?>M10. Just need a preamp for the Busmans. And I have NO PLANS of matrixing the 2 sources together, so [2] M10's was the bet route for me :)
scratches head? one of them should produce better results everytime, right? ;-)
Youd be surprised to hear the Busmans running next to the "big boys" ;)
-
Word of warning...
I took my microsd card out of the m10 and put it in my card reader just a little askew and I had to use pliers to yank the card out. The card was fine but then I decided not to use the card reader any more. ;)
My Sandisk card reader is no better. My microSD card slot leaves only 2mm of card out so I have to use pliers every time. Disappointing but hey, at least it functions as a card reader should.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41lcgY%2B1gUL.jpg)
I have this Kingston reader, and to remove the MicroSD, you PUSH IT IN and it will then click out. All the other sockets on it are just push to insert, pull to release.
I use the same one. Works great.
-
I'm in the UK and bought an M10 through Amazon.co.uk although it was actually sold by another company. When I opened it, I saw that the supplied mains adaptor was a US one and an adaptor was supplied in the box that didn't fit. Amazon couldn't give me a definitive answer on whether that was an isolated case so I returned it, got a refund and bought another one through them (which was, again, supplied by the same external company). This has the same problem - so I'm about to send it back and get it refunded again.
But I'm not quite sure what I should do next? Has anyone in the UK managed to buy an M10 with a supplied three-pin mains adaptor supplied? If so, where from? I've noticed that other companies are selling the M10 on Amazon and I'm wondering whether they're worth a go. The unit itself and battery life on it are fantastic and I transfer my recordings through a microSD card adaptor now so I'm not sure if a mains adaptor is even that important any more?
-
I would suggest contacting the company directly to see if they have an adapter for you and perhaps it could be an even swap. I'm in the US so I don't have any idea where you would find the correct adapter, sorry.
I have owned the m10 since April 2010 or so and never have used the adapter with it and its possible, if you do get the correct adapter, you won't be using it either.
---
corrected date
-
I'm in the UK and bought an M10 through Amazon.co.uk although it was actually sold by another company. When I opened it, I saw that the supplied mains adaptor was a US one and an adaptor was supplied in the box that didn't fit. Amazon couldn't give me a definitive answer on whether that was an isolated case so I returned it, got a refund and bought another one through them (which was, again, supplied by the same external company). This has the same problem - so I'm about to send it back and get it refunded again.
But I'm not quite sure what I should do next? Has anyone in the UK managed to buy an M10 with a supplied three-pin mains adaptor supplied? If so, where from? I've noticed that other companies are selling the M10 on Amazon and I'm wondering whether they're worth a go. The unit itself and battery life on it are fantastic and I transfer my recordings through a microSD card adaptor now so I'm not sure if a mains adaptor is even that important any more?
15 Hours of battery life and a two sets of NiMH AA's means never having to plug in. My adapter hasn't been used once in 6 months. I'd be more worried about the AC getting unplugged than any battery life issues. If you use NiMH remember to go in and set battery type to rechargable so the indicator works correctly.
-
I'm in the UK and bought an M10 through Amazon.co.uk although it was actually sold by another company. When I opened it, I saw that the supplied mains adaptor was a US one and an adaptor was supplied in the box that didn't fit. Amazon couldn't give me a definitive answer on whether that was an isolated case so I returned it, got a refund and bought another one through them (which was, again, supplied by the same external company). This has the same problem - so I'm about to send it back and get it refunded again.
Isn't it costing you money to send them back? Because if so, chances are the money you spend could be enough to buy a mains plug adapter that will allow you to plug that power supply into your wall outlet.
To be perfectly honest, I haven't bothered with mine. I bought mine from the US while I was working in Canada back in 2009. I only ever used it for the recording process. For dumping the data onto my computer, I took out the memory card and put it in my card reader because that's always faster than via the unit's USB.
I actually gave the power supply away to one of my American colleagues who would've put it to better use and didn't even bother to buy a replacement back home (which is another option).
-
I don't think I even took the AC adapter out of the box. I have no idea what it even looks like. :P
-
I had my M10 brought to the UK from the US by a friend so if there is an AC adaptor in there it'll be a US one - but I haven't had reason to even look at it...
If having AC available is important to you, it might be worth checking what the ratings are on the US adaptor: nearly everything I've bought in the last couple of years has been capable of taking either US or UK mains so you might be able to get by with a simple 2-to-3-prong adaptor.
-
Thanks for the replies everyone. Amazon have sent/are sending a courier to pick the M10 up on both occasions so it hasn't cost me anything other than a bit of time to wrap it up! Looks like the consensus is that the sheer length of the battery life means that a mains adaptor is pretty much redundant, although a quick check on eBay seems to show that UK adaptors do exist... I think the only time the lack of one might be an issue for me is when I'm making an FM recording. Will bite the bullet and buy again from a different company on Amazon, especially as the price has gone down again!
-
I have NEVER even looked at my [2] M10's AC Adapters. [2] alkaline/NIMH batteries and 30 hrs later, and you should NEVER need an AC ADapter ;)
-
The AC adaptor for the M10 actually works really well. You can plug in and out without affecting the recording, from my limited testing!
-
I'll be damned....I just looked in the M10 box and saw that I too have a power adapter...along with a remote and a bracelet thingie....cool
Oh well....back into storage. Who needs a power adapter...this recorders runs forever on 2 x AA. :)
-
Who needs a power adapter...this recorders runs forever on 2 x AA. :)
Exactly!
-
I'll be damned....I just looked in the M10 box and saw that I too have a power adapter...along with a remote and a bracelet thingie....
Sure, leave the power adaptor in storage. But you might find the remote comes in mighty handy.
-
I'll be damned....I just looked in the M10 box and saw that I too have a power adapter...along with a remote and a bracelet thingie....
Sure, leave the power adaptor in storage. But you might find the remote comes in mighty handy.
For what ??? If you accidentally hit the stop button while recording, it stops the deck, even with the "hold" button on, correct?
-
I'll be damned....I just looked in the M10 box and saw that I too have a power adapter...along with a remote and a bracelet thingie....
Sure, leave the power adaptor in storage. But you might find the remote comes in mighty handy.
For what ??? If you accidentally hit the stop button while recording, it stops the deck, even with the "hold" button on, correct?
Just tested it. You are indeed correct Bean.
-
I'll be damned....I just looked in the M10 box and saw that I too have a power adapter...along with a remote and a bracelet thingie....
Sure, leave the power adaptor in storage. But you might find the remote comes in mighty handy.
For what ??? If you accidentally hit the stop button while recording, it stops the deck, even with the "hold" button on, correct?
Just tested it. You are indeed correct Bean.
That's what I thought :) Npow if it was nice and had levels and the "hold" actually worked, damn right I'd use it, but it doesnt :P ;D
-
Well, I guess I like living dangerously...but I do like trackmarking during applause while the PCM-M10 stays tucked away, so I don't even use Hold. After all, the little glowing red light is pretty reassuring.
Sure, I'd like levels too, but:
"You can't have everything. Where would you put it?"--Steven Wright
-
I only use the m-10 for lo-pro and outright $tealth recording only, so the remote is all but useless for me. If I could engage hold and monitor and adjust levels w/ the remote then I would use it.
-
If I could engage hold and monitor and adjust levels w/ the remote then I would use it.
same heere!
-
For what ??? If you accidentally hit the stop button while recording, it stops the deck, even with the "hold" button on, correct?
[/quote]
Just tested it. You are indeed correct Bean.
[/quote]
This is not correct. I checked this with my deck tonight and the hold on my M10 doesn't allow me to stop the recording, The locked screen came up. I had to switch hold to off then I was able to stop it .I can still however move the levels even with hold on, so I just gaffed it so it couldn't move .
-
For what ??? If you accidentally hit the stop button while recording, it stops the deck, even with the "hold" button on, correct?
Just tested it. You are indeed correct Bean.
This is not correct. I checked this with my deck tonight and the hold on my M10 doesn't allow me to stop the recording, The locked screen came up. I had to switch hold to off then I was able to stop it .I can still however move the levels even with hold on, so I just gaffed it so it couldn't move .
Were you using the remote? They are talking about using the remote.
-
For what ??? If you accidentally hit the stop button while recording, it stops the deck, even with the "hold" button on, correct?
Just tested it. You are indeed correct Bean.
This is not correct. I checked this with my deck tonight and the hold on my M10 doesn't allow me to stop the recording, The locked screen came up. I had to switch hold to off then I was able to stop it .I can still however move the levels even with hold on, so I just gaffed it so it couldn't move .
Were you using the remote? They are talking about using the remote.
Nope, my bad. Not using the remote. Hopefully didn't confuse anyone.
-
For what ??? If you accidentally hit the stop button while recording, it stops the deck, even with the "hold" button on, correct?
Just tested it. You are indeed correct Bean.
This is not correct. I checked this with my deck tonight and the hold on my M10 doesn't allow me to stop the recording, The locked screen came up. I had to switch hold to off then I was able to stop it .I can still however move the levels even with hold on, so I just gaffed it so it couldn't move .
Were you using the remote? They are talking about using the remote.
Nope, my bad. Not using the remote. Hopefully didn't confuse anyone.
Who am I? ??? ;D
-
Nope, my bad. Not using the remote. Hopefully didn't confuse anyone.
I did the same thing, but I deleted my post!! :P
-
Would it be possible to terminate the remote cable into 2 TRS plugs in order to initiate recording for two decks simultaneously (i.e. quasi-synched) ?
-
Would it be possible to terminate the remote cable into 2 TRS plugs in order to initiate recording for two decks simultaneously (i.e. quasi-synched) ?
If you want to try that, you can easily start/stop both M10's at the same time. I HIGHLY DOUBT they will be synched tho :) Thats why I bought A DR2D
-
Although I'm sure they wouldn't be perfectly syched (or technically syched at all), the remote method might be more precise than simply pressing record on both machines at the "same" time. I was really just thinking out loud. Starting and stopping the recordings with the remote (on two machines) should produce waveforms that could be mixed with little hassle. Although, I assume some drift is possible, given the length of the recording.
-
Although I'm sure they wouldn't be perfectly syched (or technically syched at all), the remote method might be more precise than simply pressing record on both machines at the "same" time. I was really just thinking out loud. Starting and stopping the recordings with the remote (on two machines) should produce waveforms that could be mixed with little hassle. Although, I assume some drift is possible, given the length of the recording.
More than "possible" - more like "certain".
Given the drift factor, it wouldn't save that much work to have the starts lined up.
-
Would it be possible to terminate the remote cable into 2 TRS plugs in order to initiate recording for two decks simultaneously (i.e. quasi-synched) ?
What a great question and a great idea! i have no idea how bad the drift could be but i don't see why it could not be done.
-
Given the drift factor, it wouldn't save that much work to have the starts lined up.
If only it would work, and be that simple! Syncing the start of the tracks is easy. If only making a matrix was that easy. It is the continuous drift that is the PIA. I find a matrix quickly gets muddy when the clocks and phasing drift. The cool hack would be linking the clocks. Someday a handheld mfg might provide such a feature - the ability to clock-sync an arbitrary number of recorders to make multi-tracks.
I've considered making an automated matrix tool, but I'm not sure that enough people would pay for it to make it worthwhile.
-
I havent had any drift issues between the 4 m10s i have.Even had a 4 hour show with no drift between them.If i use minidisc with the m10 than theres drift.
-
I havent had any drift issues between the 4 m10s i have.Even had a 4 hour show with no drift between them.If i use minidisc with the m10 than theres drift.
Thats good news, because I have [2] M10's :) But I just scored a DR2D for cheap so I never have to worry about drift ever again :P ;D
-
Thats good news, because I have [2] M10's :) But I just scored a DR2D for cheap so I never have to worry about drift ever again :P ;D
According to Tascam's site you can only record one stereo file PLUS the built in mics.
http://tascam.com/product/dr-2d/overview/
"Line mode records also two stereo files – the built-in mics plus the line input. This is perfect for live recording: record the board mix to the line input as well as the built-in mics for the sound of the room. The two stereo files allow you to treat and mix these together after the event in your DAW software."
-
Thats good news, because I have [2] M10's :) But I just scored a DR2D for cheap so I never have to worry about drift ever again :P ;D
According to Tascam's site you can only record one stereo file PLUS the built in mics.
http://tascam.com/product/dr-2d/overview/
"Line mode records also two stereo files – the built-in mics plus the line input. This is perfect for live recording: record the board mix to the line input as well as the built-in mics for the sound of the room. The two stereo files allow you to treat and mix these together after the event in your DAW software."
that is incorrect ;) you can feed it 2 line sources, you just have to keep the level down on the Mic In around 65/100
I havent had any drift issues between the 4 m10s i have.Even had a 4 hour show with no drift between them.If i use minidisc with the m10 than theres drift.
when I owned 2 M10s I tried 2 or 3 times and had horrible drift, I had less drift between my M10 and my HD-P2
that's why I went with a DR-2d after selling the DR-680
-
No drift issues for me if set to same bit depth and sample rate.If set to different than theres the problem.I also used to run several Sony Rh1 minidisc recorders and there was never a drift issue for runs up to 3 or 4 hours.
-
No drift issues for me if set to same bit depth and sample rate.If set to different than theres the problem.I also used to run several Sony Rh1 minidisc recorders and there was never a drift issue for runs up to 3 or 4 hours.
I always record @ 24/48 and had horrible drift with 2 M10s... glad you didn't have problems
-
I always record @ 24/48 and had horrible drift with 2 M10s... glad you didn't have problems
How did you link the two together?
-
Thats weird that only i am not having drift issues.Were you using alkaline batteries or rechargeables?
-
Thats crazy that some folks are getting drift and some arent? Oh well, for $125.00, a Tascam DR2D is the best route to go :)
-
I always record @ 24/48 and had horrible drift with 2 M10s... glad you didn't have problems
How did you link the two together?
???
Thats weird that only i am not having drift issues.Were you using alkaline batteries or rechargeables?
rechargables
Thats crazy that some folks are getting drift and some arent? Oh well, for $125.00, a Tascam DR2D is the best route to go :)
very simple and compact way to go
-
I havent had any drift issues between the 4 m10s i have.Even had a 4 hour show with no drift between them.If i use minidisc with the m10 than theres drift.
That's amazing! Do they have serial numbers in close proximity? Did you buy them at the same time? I've never had any two machines of any kind that sync'd like that! I can imagine that if the controller clock chips were from the exact same lot, that it's possible?!
when I owned 2 M10s I tried 2 or 3 times and had horrible drift, I had less drift between my M10 and my HD-P2
Mine have substantial drift, but it's pretty damn consistent, I think...
Thats crazy that some folks are getting drift and some arent?
I think it's crazy that some aren't!!! :o
-
i never tried to synch my m10 with anything but in the past i have done video with a fr2le, jb3, other cams
and always had mixed results, my fr2le would stay with my cam for about 1:15 h/m
my 2 cams would be the furtherst off, they would only match for about 3 mins
-
I have not been on the forums in forever but Ive got this recorder and have used it a half a dozen times and think its great. I loved my Minidisc but this is just as good and I don't have to buy discs any more!
I'm running DPA4061 > MMA6000 > (line-in) M10. Mostly doing rock shows in clubs/arenas. I saw some talk about having the input at 4 or 5 and having the pre do the rest. I've been running the recorder at 10 and the pre +0 to +5db (2 clicks) depending on how loud the show is. Thus far Ive been quite happy with the results. I never thought to have the pre kick out +10db and run the recorder at a lower level.
Thoughts?
-
Get as much gain from the pre as possible then adjust the M10. My recordings sound far better that way.
-
Get as much gain from the pre as possible then adjust the M10. My recordings sound far better that way.
I can get as much as 20db from the pre...i turn up the pre and see how that works at my next show.
-
test it with a loud source at home- record some metal from a foot from the speakers and see how much the mic/pre combo can take without overloading. The M10 can handle a full 2.0 volt input signal!!
If you have to run the M10 at a setting of less than 2.5 or 3, your input might be too hot.
-
I have not been on the forums in forever but Ive got this recorder and have used it a half a dozen times and think its great. I loved my Minidisc but this is just as good and I don't have to buy discs any more!
I'm running DPA4061 > MMA6000 > (line-in) M10. Mostly doing rock shows in clubs/arenas. I saw some talk about having the input at 4 or 5 and having the pre do the rest. I've been running the recorder at 10 and the pre +0 to +5db (2 clicks) depending on how loud the show is. Thus far Ive been quite happy with the results. I never thought to have the pre kick out +10db and run the recorder at a lower level.
Thoughts?
Running the m10 at 10 vs 4 is adding approx 15db
-
I have not been on the forums in forever but Ive got this recorder and have used it a half a dozen times and think its great. I loved my Minidisc but this is just as good and I don't have to buy discs any more!
I'm running DPA4061 > MMA6000 > (line-in) M10. Mostly doing rock shows in clubs/arenas. I saw some talk about having the input at 4 or 5 and having the pre do the rest. I've been running the recorder at 10 and the pre +0 to +5db (2 clicks) depending on how loud the show is. Thus far Ive been quite happy with the results. I never thought to have the pre kick out +10db and run the recorder at a lower level.
Thoughts?
Running the m10 at 10 vs 4 is adding approx 15db
Good to know. I'm seeing a show tonight so I'll see how the new settings sound.
-
Running the m10 at 10 vs 4 is adding approx 15db
I thought there was no need for a "unity" setting on the M10
-
so whats a m10 go for new these days??
i am going to need a new one and pref not from b+h since i have to pay tax with them
thanks
-
so whats a m10 go for new these days??
i am going to need a new one and pref not from b+h since i have to pay tax with them
thanks
I paid $300 and some change that included overnight shipping from sweetwater.
-
I paid $229 from b&h and they seem to still be at that.
I'm thinking about the new dr100mk2... so if you were interested in my m10, I might be up for that. Though I don't normally slut gear at this rate. My new one had an issue and I exchanged it. The replacement has never been out of the house.
-
I paid 230 from B+H
-
so whats a m10 go for new these days??
i am going to need a new one and pref not from b+h since i have to pay tax with them
thanks
The other competitive NYC stores, like Adorama and J&R, also have it for $229-239.
http://www.jr.com/product/productListing.jsp?Ntt=pcm-m10
Even if you pay tax, that's a better deal than $300.
Or punch PCM-M10 price into Google and see if you can find a mailorder one that's tax-free.
-
I guess I should have said that I bought mine last April/May when I bought mine, im sure the price has come down since then.
Getting it for $225 seems like a hell of a deal. I loved my Sony Minidisc recorder but I'm glad I switched over to a solid state recorder.
-
it looks like the cheap prices are 230ish
i dont need one so maybe i'll hold off for a sale
-
I've searched the User Guide on the M-10 but can't find an answer. Does anyone have an idea about how far from 3 volts the M-10 is operational? I know that it can not be exactly 3 volt but is a range just like the larger rigs. I just haven't seen it posted anywhere. Any ideas?
-
Hello everybody,
First time posting here, although I have been reading for a while. Thanks for all the useful information :)
I just received my brand-new Sony PCM-M10, and thought I'd pass along the details of what I think is a pretty good deal for U.K. customers. Creative Video currently have the M10, with U.K. AC adaptor, at £159.02 incl. VAT. With next-day courier delivery, the total came to £167.17. Much cheaper than Amazon.co.uk, and those that care don't have to worry about the unit shipping with a U.S. AC adaptor. Here's the link:
http://www.creativevideo.co.uk/index.php?t=product/sony_pcm-m10_bic-cek (http://www.creativevideo.co.uk/index.php?t=product/sony_pcm-m10_bic-cek)
-
Wow - that's really good. About £3 less than I paid for mine via a friend in the US in fact...
-
I've been buying from these guys for a couple of years (mostly external HD modules) and they are reliable, and quick, if they have the product in stock. I had to wait a couple of months for the M10 to come back into stock, but when it did they honoured the reduced price, which came into effect after I had placed my original order. I would recommend using CVP, but be sure to call them first to check availability.
-
I've searched the User Guide on the M-10 but can't find an answer. Does anyone have an idea about how far from 3 volts the M-10 is operational? I know that it can not be exactly 3 volt but is a range just like the larger rigs. I just haven't seen it posted anywhere. Any ideas?
Someone with a good voltmeter could test a pair or AA's right after they die?
-
Is there a way to order a replacement front faceplate ? Mine got dented during shipping and the Menu and Display buttons dont work. I opened it up and without the faceplate everything works.
I think the buttons are slightly out of alignment.
Any idea where I can get one ?
-
I've searched the User Guide on the M-10 but can't find an answer. Does anyone have an idea about how far from 3 volts the M-10 is operational? I know that it can not be exactly 3 volt but is a range just like the larger rigs. I just haven't seen it posted anywhere. Any ideas?
Someone with a good voltmeter could test a pair or AA's right after they die?
I will do that tonight/tomorrow ;)
-
just wanted to know if anyone is haveing rechargeable battrie issues. I have been using just some regular alkaline batteries that i get from work duracell procell i usally get been getting amazing long life from them. This past weekend i used energizer 2300 rechargable and had to switch them out during set break. i don't get it they work fine in my discman and the kids toys is there something i am missing. i just don't get it.
-
Did you change the battery settings in the Menu??
just wanted to know if anyone is haveing rechargeable battrie issues. I have been using just some regular alkaline batteries that i get from work duracell procell i usally get been getting amazing long life from them. This past weekend i used energizer 2300 rechargable and had to switch them out during set break. i don't get it they work fine in my discman and the kids toys is there something i am missing. i just don't get it.
-
just wanted to know if anyone is haveing rechargeable battrie issues. I have been using just some regular alkaline batteries that i get from work duracell procell i usally get been getting amazing long life from them. This past weekend i used energizer 2300 rechargable and had to switch them out during set break. i don't get it they work fine in my discman and the kids toys is there something i am missing. i just don't get it.
Potentially stupid question here but did you change the battery setting in your menu from Alkaline to NiMH? The characteristics of these batteries are such that they need to be measured and assessed differently.
-
I have noticed rechargeable batteries generally don't last as long as Alkaline in the m10 so I just get a 4 pack once in a while and that will last.
Also, I have put a mostly fully charged pair of NiMH in the m10, and before adjusting the battery settings, it showed one bar missing. Once I set it to NiMH, it showed full power.
-
Also, I have put a mostly fully charged pair of NiMH in the m10, and before adjusting the battery settings, it showed one bar missing. Once I set it to NiMH, it showed full power.
Exactly the point I was making earlier about measurement and assessment being different between the two chemistries.
-
just wanted to know if anyone is haveing rechargeable battrie issues. I have been using just some regular alkaline batteries that i get from work duracell procell i usally get been getting amazing long life from them. This past weekend i used energizer 2300 rechargable and had to switch them out during set break. i don't get it they work fine in my discman and the kids toys is there something i am missing. i just don't get it.
This is the one place I use disposable batteries, Energizer lithiums. With them I have gotten well in excess of 50 hours recording time on multiple occasions. I know that means they do end up in the landfill eventually, but in my mind that's a small impact in exchange for peace of mind and convenience. By small, I mean smaller than regular batteries where it's touch and go after ~20hrs. YMMV
I have used Sanyo Eneloops before with the deck set to NiMH, and got 20 hrs or so before I started to get worried.
-
This is the one place I use disposable batteries, Energizer lithiums. With them I have gotten well in excess of 50 hours recording time on multiple occasions. I know that means they do end up in the landfill eventually, but in my mind that's a small impact in exchange for peace of mind and convenience. By small, I mean smaller than regular batteries where it's touch and go after ~20hrs. YMMV
I have used Sanyo Eneloops before with the deck set to NiMH, and got 20 hrs or so before I started to get worried.
I used to be a strong proponent of the Energizer lithium AA's (and still am for many applications). However, the battery meter in the PCM-M10 isn't as accurate as the PCM-D50 and as a result, I've been caught out once by it. What seemed like a full tank depleted very quickly despite my best calculations as to how many hours those batteries had done.
Since then, as much as I keep tabs on time, I much rather charge up a set of Powerex NiMH batteries the night before a show. Then I'll plug them in to record the show, knowing I'm reading a fairly accurate battery meter and more importantly, knowing I'll get the usual 3 hours worth of recording that I need.
To be bitten in the arse once is enough for me. Otherwise, the lithiums are great and definitely long lasting. The best thing of all ... there's little to no risk of them leaking! That in itself is well worth the premium.
-
I love the lithiums. I put a fresh pair in the day of a show. After the show I use the m10 for playback and song catching around the house. Sometimes weeks go by and lots of use and the lithiums keep going. When a show comes along I put a new set in....
Also, someday one of these jambands is going to access the time/space continuum and play in suspension for 48hrs straight, this is why lithiums are advantageous...
-
DOH... no i didn't even think of the battery setting..well live and learn
-
I got home from recording Bruce Hornsby on Friday and when I turn my M-10 on it light's up and then powers down like it has dead batteries. I got new batteries today and it still does the same. I can't find the USB cord or the power supply to check if they work. I recorded on the internal memory so can not access the show at this point. any ideas what the problem might be I don't think I dropped it. Don't know if it would cost more to have it worked than getting a new one? Where is the cheapest it is being sold now? So many questions.
-
Has anyone else experienced a problem with unmatched left-right channels on their m10? I know they bill them as matched to within 1db of each other, but mine has a left channel about 2db higher than the right channel. Easily correctable in post, and not extremely noticeable given that it's an omni pattern, but kinda annoying none-the-less.
-
B&H still sells for $229, shipping included. They are fast and reliable, always. I've bought a few m10's from them. Such a great gift ... a chicken in every pot and a M10 in every hand.
-
I hsve had that but I attributted it to my C14s.
-
I got home from recording Bruce Hornsby on Friday and when I turn my M-10 on it light's up and then powers down like it has dead batteries. I got new batteries today and it still does the same. I can't find the USB cord or the power supply to check if they work. I recorded on the internal memory so can not access the show at this point. any ideas what the problem might be I don't think I dropped it. Don't know if it would cost more to have it worked than getting a new one? Where is the cheapest it is being sold now? So many questions.
I would try to find your power supply before buying a new deck. Also do you have a micro-SD card in the deck (even if you recorded to the internal memory)? If so, I would remove it to see if it helps.
-
When it powers down do you get the "see you!" message?Maybe the power on slider is sticking. Try power on and quickly slide back over to HOLD. If thats isnt the problem than i am making a note to myself to only record to external card from now on.
-
Good call vanark ! I took the SD card out and it powers up fine. But as soon as I put the card back in it goes dead every time. Ok so I guess this mean my card went bad? I would rather have that than the M-10 went bad I guess. I tried the SD card in my computer and it gives a USB has malfunctioned message and the card gets very hot. I think if I had recorded to the card I would have lost my show. Time to get a new SD card. I have a 2 gig one that came in my new phone I will try that one until I get a new one.
-
Has anyone else experienced a problem with unmatched left-right channels on their m10? I know they bill them as matched to within 1db of each other, but mine has a left channel about 2db higher than the right channel. Easily correctable in post, and not extremely noticeable given that it's an omni pattern, but kinda annoying none-the-less.
Yes, I just got mine last week and have noticed same (with internal mics). Seems OK with an external mic. I agree, annoying. I did see 2 similar posts:
[Hello everyone!
Just discovered this forum after searching for info on the M10. Today I returned an M10 that was recording hotter on the left internal mic than the right. When at the store, we tried another unit and it did the same thing. Has anyone noticed this with their M10?
^yes. I was surprised to find that the channels danced so differently on the meters, considering the mics are so close together. The left does seem to peak a little hotter, though the overall balance isn't as bad. It isn't audible.
-
Ran my M-10 this weekend for the first time. I've had it for months, but was scared to death to break in a new machine, but I bit the bullet and gave it a test run with Robben Ford.
I ran Schoeps MK4 with an NBox on Line In. The show was very loud and the best sound was at "6" although a second show was recorded at "5" and I felt more comfortable with that.
I had much trouble getting the Micro SD card to be recognized, but after about 30 minutes of fooling with it, its in place. What is odd is that the screen does not seem to reflect the increased recording time although Cross-Disk recording is enabled.
The clock was particularly agravating and I just gave up. Its a recorder, not a watch, as another poster suggested.
I taped the 90 degree 3.5 plug to the deck, as well as taping the volume down as well, and stuck the whole mess into a pocket.
The recording turned out perfect, as good as my old Edirol 09, so I am happy. It is half the size, so that is good as well.
When locked, I wish I could see the settings, but one has to unlock to see the VU meter, which is not a big deal. but inconvenient.
Not sure I really understand the difference between Mike In and Line In, but Mike In was easily twice as loud, the same source for the same result would be a "3" for Mike In and a "6" for Line In. I tend to be able to guess the proper setting on the Ediorl quite accurately, so I'll probably stick to Line In at "5" to be safe.
When plugged in to AC power, the display does not indicate that it is indeed plugged in.
More to come as I gain more confidence in the deck.
-
Ran my M-10 this weekend for the first time. I've had it for months, but was scared to death to break in a new machine, but I bit the bullet and gave it a test run with Robben Ford.
I ran Schoeps MK4 with an NBox on Line In. The show was very loud and the best sound was at "6" although a second show was recorded at "5" and I felt more comfortable with that.
I had much trouble getting the Micro SD card to be recognized, but after about 30 minutes of fooling with it, its in place. What is odd is that the screen does not seem to reflect the increased recording time although Cross-Disk recording is enabled.
The clock was particularly agravating and I just gave up. Its a recorder, not a watch, as another poster suggested.
I taped the 90 degree 3.5 plug to the deck, as well as taping the volume down as well, and stuck the whole mess into a pocket.
The recording turned out perfect, as good as my old Edirol 09, so I am happy. It is half the size, so that is good as well.
When locked, I wish I could see the settings, but one has to unlock to see the VU meter, which is not a big deal. but inconvenient.
Not sure I really understand the difference between Mike In and Line In, but Mike In was easily twice as loud, the same source for the same result would be a "3" for Mike In and a "6" for Line In. I tend to be able to guess the proper setting on the Ediorl quite accurately, so I'll probably stick to Line In at "5" to be safe.
More to come as I gain more confidence in the deck.
The unit defaults to internal memory before card. After inserting the card, go into the menu and change the memory setting to card.
On hold, hit a button, after the lock screen displays, you will see the display and meters for a while before the light goes off.
-
Ran my M-10 this weekend for the first time.
Not sure I really understand the difference between Mike In and Line In, but Mike In was easily twice as loud, the same source for the same result would be a "3" for Mike In and a "6" for Line In. I tend to be able to guess the proper setting on the Ediorl quite accurately, so I'll probably stick to Line In at "5" to be safe.
Good job on running the recorder for the first outing!
mic in uses the pre-amp and can use plug in power and the line is if you're using an external pre-amp or recording loud music.
-
The recording time displayed will only tell you the time for the memory you are using: the card or the internal. It doesn't add them up. But don't worry--it will switch.
If you push the Track or Record button on the remote while on Hold, it will light up the VU. (Obviously the Track will also make a track....)
As previous poster said, Mic in has a preamp and amplifies the signal. Line-in has no preamp. It expects a powered signal or a mic through a battery box or preamp.
-
Somewhere in the dark past of this thread the numbers are quoted, but Mic - High, Mic - Low and Line In have an overlap in their ranges. Something like a 1 on Mic - Low = 5 on Line In.
Mic in also has plug-in power. The amount the M10 provides though, is insufficient for many small mics and preamps or battery boxes to provide mic power is strongly recommended. In these cases disable mic power on the M10 when prompted.
-
Has anyone else experienced a problem with unmatched left-right channels on their m10? I know they bill them as matched to within 1db of each other, but mine has a left channel about 2db higher than the right channel. Easily correctable in post, and not extremely noticeable given that it's an omni pattern, but kinda annoying none-the-less.
Yes, I just got mine last week and have noticed same (with internal mics). Seems OK with an external mic. I agree, annoying. I did see 2 similar posts:
[Hello everyone!
Just discovered this forum after searching for info on the M10. Today I returned an M10 that was recording hotter on the left internal mic than the right. When at the store, we tried another unit and it did the same thing. Has anyone noticed this with their M10?
^yes. I was surprised to find that the channels danced so differently on the meters, considering the mics are so close together. The left does seem to peak a little hotter, though the overall balance isn't as bad. It isn't audible.
Thank you. :)
-
Ran my M-10 this weekend for the first time. I've had it for months, but was scared to death to break in a new machine, but I bit the bullet and gave it a test run with Robben Ford.
I ran Schoeps MK4 with an NBox on Line In. The show was very loud and the best sound was at "6" although a second show was recorded at "5" and I felt more comfortable with that.
I had much trouble getting the Micro SD card to be recognized, but after about 30 minutes of fooling with it, its in place. What is odd is that the screen does not seem to reflect the increased recording time although Cross-Disk recording is enabled.
The clock was particularly agravating and I just gave up. Its a recorder, not a watch, as another poster suggested.
I taped the 90 degree 3.5 plug to the deck, as well as taping the volume down as well, and stuck the whole mess into a pocket.
The recording turned out perfect, as good as my old Edirol 09, so I am happy. It is half the size, so that is good as well.
When locked, I wish I could see the settings, but one has to unlock to see the VU meter, which is not a big deal. but inconvenient.
Not sure I really understand the difference between Mike In and Line In, but Mike In was easily twice as loud, the same source for the same result would be a "3" for Mike In and a "6" for Line In. I tend to be able to guess the proper setting on the Ediorl quite accurately, so I'll probably stick to Line In at "5" to be safe.
When plugged in to AC power, the display does not indicate that it is indeed plugged in.
More to come as I gain more confidence in the deck.
imo there is no reason to run mic in with the nbox and i would drop it down to 4 unless i needed extra gain and didn't want to do it in post
-
Looks like David Byrne field records with PCM-M10
http://www.aroomforlondon.co.uk/hearts-of-darkness/feb-2012-david-byrne
-
I recorded a couple symphony shows recently with the m10 internals, and I was amazed at the sound quality...
-
Looked at the David Byrne photo and not so sure it is the PCM-M10.
With the headphones (curly cord) plugged in on that side, the mic/line input should be at the top, visible. Also the headphone jack looks like it's midway down the unit, not near the top. Where the heck is the mic plugged in, anyway?
Then again, I don't know what recorder it is. It's not an Edirol or Zoom. Any thoughts?
-
Looked at the David Byrne photo and not so sure it is the PCM-M10.
With the headphones (curly cord) plugged in on that side, the mic/line input should be at the top, visible. Also the headphone jack looks like it's midway down the unit, not near the top. Where the heck is the mic plugged in, anyway?
Then again, I don't know what recorder it is. It's not an Edirol or Zoom. Any thoughts?
looks like a zoom h2 to me
-
Looked at the David Byrne photo and not so sure it is the PCM-M10.
With the headphones (curly cord) plugged in on that side, the mic/line input should be at the top, visible. Also the headphone jack looks like it's midway down the unit, not near the top. Where the heck is the mic plugged in, anyway?
Then again, I don't know what recorder it is. It's not an Edirol or Zoom. Any thoughts?
looks like a zoom h2 to me
From the angle that the picture was taken, it's hard to tell if the mic is plugged into anything at all. Judging by where the headphone input is and the lack of inputs on the top, the Zoom H2 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=ProductDetail&A=showMultipleImages&Q=&sku=480163&is=REG) is probably the stronger call.
Anyone want to take a gander at the microphone? Nak with the shotgun capsule, maybe? I don't see an external pre/phantom supply that you would need to use with the H2 for a typical condenser.
-
I would also agree it is not an m10 due to it being a little too thick and the front and back parts that we see are symmetrical.
No idea on the shotgun, perhaps AT8035? He's using the mic with a small table top tripod and nice looking shockmount.
-
so is this unit a good one or bad and would anyone recommend it
-
so is this unit a good one or bad and would anyone recommend it
Let me beat Bean to this. Yes buy it.
For a two-track recorder it's hard to beat.
1. Battery life is insane. 16 hours on 2AA batteries.
2. Built solid.
3. Quiet preamps.
Built in mics are good, not great. It shines paired with good mics.
-
so is this unit a good one or bad and would anyone recommend it
It is great piece. And, I would recommend it. I have a D50 and when it goes I will replace it with an M10.
-
so is this unit a good one or bad and would anyone recommend it
It is great piece. And, I would recommend it. I have a D50 and when it goes I will replace it with an M10.
I've got a D50 which I've had for a few years now and love. If tracking numbers aren't lying to me, I've got an M10 waiting on my doorstep for me when I return home from work. ;D
-
Does the m10 display light remain illuminated during recording even in HOLD mode so you can see the settings?
so if you are using Jedi skills to record, is the display light on?
like the edirol r0-9 it has a OLED display and when hit record you can see your levels throughout your evening of recording without using up battery.
How is any seeing there levels in the dark, basically how does the display work and what ways can it be changed to accommodate a dark jedi environment?
thanks in advance
-
Just got my M10 delivered yesterday. "Used" supposedly, but absolutely pristine -- it, the box/packing materials, and accessories look brand new. Can't wait to use it!
I'm probably not the right one to ask since I haven't used it, but after playing around with it last night:
You can set the backlight to go off after 10sec, 60sec, or stay on continuously. Also, the level LEDs, which show for each channel -12dbFS and near-clipping at -1dbFS can be turned on or turned off.
For Jedi, either keep the LEDs on or off as is your preference. If kept on, I'd imagine you could use those as pretty low key guidelines to whether your levels were ok, without ever turning on the LCD backlight. Or keep the LCD backlight set to go off after 10sec, put the unit into hold and run it that way. On hold, hit any button at all, the M10 will come up saying "Hold On" and won't perform the button function (stop the recording or whatever) but it will light up the backlight for a few seconds (10??), allowing you to check your levels.
-
Just got my M10 delivered yesterday. "Used" supposedly, but absolutely pristine -- it, the box/packing materials, and accessories look brand new. Can't wait to use it!
nice purchase, I went from a 722 to M10 and couldn't be happier. Great little deck, very reminiscent of the M1 IMO.
-
Yep Jeff, lusting after yours was the last straw.
Actually, the last straw was the GBA show we just did. My Milab>V3>D50 recording came out great, but the Beyer mc950>Littlebox>DR2d recording got screwed up on the first song, due essentially to the low input overload levels of the DR2d. I'm not willing to lose any more recordings.
Too bad, I actually like the mc950>LB>DR2d recording better than the Milab>V3 recording, once I got everything straightened out on the DR2d. Maybe I'll splice in the Milab 1st song into the Beyer mc950 recording and use that.
-
Nice. I'd really like to hear the beyer pull, don't think I've heard those hypers yet. Gonna try to post my Ogden and BT shows this weekend. Enjoy the new deck!
-
Just got my M10 delivered yesterday. "Used" supposedly, but absolutely pristine -- it, the box/packing materials, and accessories look brand new. Can't wait to use it!
I'm probably not the right one to ask since I haven't used it, but after playing around with it last night:
You can set the backlight to go off after 10sec, 60sec, or stay on continuously. Also, the level LEDs, which show for each channel -12dbFS and near-clipping at -1dbFS can be turned on or turned off.
For Jedi, either keep the LEDs on or off as is your preference. If kept on, I'd imagine you could use those as pretty low key guidelines to whether your levels were ok, without ever turning on the LCD backlight. Or keep the LCD backlight set to go off after 10sec, put the unit into hold and run it that way. On hold, hit any button at all, the M10 will come up saying "Hold On" and won't perform the button function (stop the recording or whatever) but it will light up the backlight for a few seconds (10??), allowing you to check your levels.
thank you
in addition, i hear that the input dials--even when M10 is "locked"or " hold" still can be moved and adjusted thus requiring possible small amount of tape so that they are not disturbed once set at the right level.
thanks again
-
For Jedi, either keep the LEDs on or off as is your preference. If kept on, I'd imagine you could use those as pretty low key guidelines to whether your levels were ok, without ever turning on the LCD backlight. Or keep the LCD backlight set to go off after 10sec, put the unit into hold and run it that way. On hold, hit any button at all, the M10 will come up saying "Hold On" and won't perform the button function (stop the recording or whatever) but it will light up the backlight for a few seconds (10??), allowing you to check your levels.
This is exactly what I do and i don't do stealth...i just don't need the light on all the time and 60 seconds is just a little too long.
Nice buy, Todd. I have no doubt you will like the simplicity of vm44 > littlebox > m10!
-
-Does the recorder only have a limiter function to prevent "brickwall" ( overloading ). Isn't there something like a mic "low" level like on the HI MD recorders ?
I record mainly metal shows and I have always used ( Sony ) recorders that had a + 20 DB function . The limiter on this recorder goes to + 12 DB . Is that enough to prevent distortion ?
Most of the metal shows are pretty loud .
-Also , I have understood you can't check the levels if in hold position ? Or can you leave the backlight on when in hold mode ?
-
The levels may be checked when the recorder is locked. There are green lights that show when it has a -12 db input and when its peaking higher. Also, if the lock is engaged, you can tap the play button to illuminate the screen and see the meter. You are able to adjust the levels without unlocking the recorder.
The recorder does have a low/high setting. Most tapers record with manual settings with recorder set to low to preven peaking, but if you're input is too high (from a pre-amp, for instance), it would be possible to peak/distort.
-
Thanks ! ^^^^
How reliable is this unit ? Has anyone ever had any problems here ?
Does it make any difference what brand memory card to use ?
-
VERY RELIABLE. In fact, so reliable[knocks on wood] I sold my SD 722 and bought a 2nd M10 ;) Now I need a white one for my 3rd rig :) Just buy a decent MicroSDHC Card and you *should* be all set :)
-
Thanks ! ^^^^
Is it easy to accidently hit the hold button and the recorder switching off , or going to pause mode.
Also does the unit recognize a 32 GB memory card ?
When finished recording , does the PCM M10 needs to write the file to memory card ? Or does it automatically write to the memory card ( a bit like a DAT used to write immidiately to the tape itself ) during recording ?
When uploading , does the computer recognize the memory card itself and it's file ? Or can you only upload connecting the PCM M10 to the computer ?
Thanks for the answers . Really appreciate the help .
-
All your questions are already answered in this thread!!!
Thanks ! ^^^^
Is it easy to accidently hit the hold button and the recorder switching off , or going to pause mode.
Also does the unit recognize a 32 GB memory card ?
When finished recording , does the PCM M10 needs to write the file to memory card ? Or does it automatically write to the memory card ( a bit like a DAT used to write immidiately to the tape itself ) during recording ?
When uploading , does the computer recognize the memory card itself and it's file ? Or can you only upload connecting the PCM M10 to the computer ?
Thanks for the answers . Really appreciate the help .
-
Is it easy to accidently hit the hold button and the recorder switching off , or going to pause mode.
Also does the unit recognize a 32 GB memory card ?
When finished recording , does the PCM M10 needs to write the file to memory card ? Or does it automatically write to the memory card ( a bit like a DAT used to write immidiately to the tape itself ) during recording ?
When uploading , does the computer recognize the memory card itself and it's file ? Or can you only upload connecting the PCM M10 to the computer ?
Indeed, these have all been answered before but I'll be nice and answer them.
The hold button slides up and "locks" into place and you need to unslide to get out -- it is easy to stop a recording when you come out of HOLD mode (I've done it so I usually only unlock after a set).
I run a 32GB Class 10 microSDHC in mine with *NO* issues.
I believe the M10 records to the card as it goes along (or when you turn it off [as I mentioned previously coming out of HOLD mode) because the file to that point is there.
You can put the microSDHC in an adapter, place it into your computer and you'll see the folders on your desktop. If you're using a Class 6 or 10 card, this will be much faster than connecting the unit via USB.
-
AdrianF^^^^ I appreciate your extra help and kind answers !
Sure , I suppose some of my questions were already mentioned somewhere . But to go back 24 and more pages to try finding the few things I need to know>> again highly appreciated . And maybe someone else benefits from your answers aswell !
I simply need a new recorder after my HI MD recorder(s) kind of fall apart after 8 years of service ...
I think I'll go out and order this one although It doesn't have all the features I like. For example , I don't like a manual knob to use for recording settings . It brings memories back to the DAT days and I never liked it . I was happy with the digital feature the HI MD recorders used to have . I always knew almost every show I attended had a setting between 16-18 . Now with the manual knob you just never really know where you are . That's the reason I totally liked the remote on the HI MD records . You could do almost everything with that feature . Now I have to deal with the unit itself .
But reading the other reviews this seems to the best choice for live recording . Especially since I had a few power out's on my HI MD recorder and lost two precious recordings ...
-
AdrianF^^^^ I appreciate your extra help and kind answers !
Sure , I suppose some of my questions were already mentioned somewhere . But to go back 24 and more pages to try finding the few things I need to know>> again highly appreciated . And maybe someone else benefits from your answers aswell !
I simply need a new recorder after my HI MD recorder(s) kind of fall apart after 8 years of service ...
I think I'll go out and order this one although It doesn't have all the features I like. For example , I don't like a manual knob to use for recording settings . It brings memories back to the DAT days and I never liked it . I was happy with the digital feature the HI MD recorders used to have . I always knew almost every show I attended had a setting between 16-18 . Now with the manual knob you just never really know where you are . That's the reason I totally liked the remote on the HI MD records . You could do almost everything with that feature . Now I have to deal with the unit itself .
But reading the other reviews this seems to the best choice for live recording . Especially since I had a few power out's on my HI MD recorder and lost two precious recordings ...
I'll go ahead and answer the next obvious question, set the level knob to 4 or 5 and make adjustments with your pre to get the signal to where you want it. I set and forget at 4.5, so the knob can easily be taped down at that point.
-
I think I'll go out and order this one although It doesn't have all the features I like. For example , I don't like a manual knob to use for recording settings . It brings memories back to the DAT days and I never liked it . I was happy with the digital feature the HI MD recorders used to have . I always knew almost every show I attended had a setting between 16-18 . Now with the manual knob you just never really know where you are . That's the reason I totally liked the remote on the HI MD records . You could do almost everything with that feature . Now I have to deal with the unit itself .
But reading the other reviews this seems to the best choice for live recording . Especially since I had a few power out's on my HI MD recorder and lost two precious recordings ...
The manual recording knob isn't very loose compared to a D7 or D8. The "wheel" on the D7/8 was very loose and could be easily moved. The knob on the M10 is pretty stiff so it's not going to be easily moved (I've never managed that in my entire time with the M10). Again, you'll find out you new setting as you use your new gear. A lot of this is going to be trial and error until you get everything to where you want it. Personally, I never really "deal" with the unit other than hitting record, then play and then HOLD. I used to primarily run a Church Audio 9100 preamp which would let me adjust levels on the fly but I've been learning to like the Ugly Preamp more because I can add 8dB of gain to my 4061's, offset the "unmatched" levels between them and get my recorder to live at 4.5 (as bryonsos mentioned) and never really have to look at the deck. With the 9100, I'd usually have the knob set to around 1 o'clock to add about 8-10dB as well. If you're using a battery box/mic, you'll have to adjust the gain on the deck some more. The good thing about the M10 is that it's relatively quiet compared to a lot of other devices out there (I came from the original Edirol R09 and it was pretty noisy). I don't see why you'd be worried about the M10; a lot of people here love it (myself included).
-
Sure , I suppose some of my questions were already mentioned somewhere . But to go back 24 and more pages to try finding the few things I need to know>> again highly appreciated . And maybe someone else benefits from your answers aswell !
Ekib,
Its always nice if you can find answers on your own since it will be your recorder. If i am new to something, i'll spend a lot of time reading and trying things out because I know the question I have has been asked before. Also, reading the manual will answer your questions as well.
FAQ for this recorder: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=147551.msg1891476
-
thanks for the above exchange. I see if you set the m10 at a 4.5 or whatever, BUT what if your running JEDI and using a sonosax pre amp and that is what instrument you set and forget then is the m10 the same level? of course i know it matters if it is a loud rock show or quite acoustic. But if you had to adjust the M10 because the sonosax is taped up " not available to change due to location" what do you adjust the M10 too? below unity? or does is matter as long as you dont run HOT?
-
Sure , I suppose some of my questions were already mentioned somewhere . But to go back 24 and more pages to try finding the few things I need to know>> again highly appreciated . And maybe someone else benefits from your answers aswell !
Ekib,
Its always nice if you can find answers on your own since it will be your recorder. If i am new to something, i'll spend a lot of time reading and trying things out because I know the question I have has been asked before. Also, reading the manual will answer your questions as well.
FAQ for this recorder: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=147551.msg1891476
Thanks for your help and kind comments .
I am just in a really big hurry to get a new recorder . As I've stated before , both of my current recorders are getting unreliable and I have an important concert coming up this sunday.
So I just didn't have time ( I have a busy job too ) to scroll down to the 100 something pages in these 5 threads .
Besides , not every question I have asked was answered in the FAQ thread .
About the volume knob ( and this is in answer to some of the other guys responding ) ...I am just surprised SONY has that feature added again . It is something that is on their portable recorders since 1986 . Yes , the 80's when we only had cassette walkman's ... You'd think in 2012 they'd do a digital knob ( like on the HI MD ) .
Also the + 20 DB settings is something they have on the recorders as a switch since the 80's . It was so obvious , I didn't even look it up in the manual of the PCM M10. I only saw the limiter function which goes to + 12 DB . I didn't even think in 2009 ( when they designed this recorder ) they'd still add a feature like that !
Anyway , I'll order this unit today . I can't afford to waste more time and look further .
So again , thanks guys for all the extra help . Highly appreciated ...even if some of the questions may have been a bit annoying . Now you know the reason why !
-
Has anyone else experienced a problem with unmatched left-right channels on their m10? I know they bill them as matched to within 1db of each other, but mine has a left channel about 2db higher than the right channel. Easily correctable in post, and not extremely noticeable given that it's an omni pattern, but kinda annoying none-the-less.
Yes, I just got mine last week and have noticed same (with internal mics). Seems OK with an external mic. I agree, annoying. I did see 2 similar posts:
[Hello everyone!
Just discovered this forum after searching for info on the M10. Today I returned an M10 that was recording hotter on the left internal mic than the right. When at the store, we tried another unit and it did the same thing. Has anyone noticed this with their M10?
^yes. I was surprised to find that the channels danced so differently on the meters, considering the mics are so close together. The left does seem to peak a little hotter, though the overall balance isn't as bad. It isn't audible.
Thank you. :)
Well, I sent mine back to B&H for a replacement because of that left channel being slightly hotter.
The new one arrived and fortunately the levels are normal. Glad I did.
What a great recorder. I'm as happy with it as when I first received the original Sony Walkman Professional back in the day (and it still works).
-
Has anyone else experienced a problem with unmatched left-right channels on their m10? I know they bill them as matched to within 1db of each other, but mine has a left channel about 2db higher than the right channel. Easily correctable in post, and not extremely noticeable given that it's an omni pattern, but kinda annoying none-the-less.
Yes, I just got mine last week and have noticed same (with internal mics). Seems OK with an external mic. I agree, annoying. I did see 2 similar posts:
[Hello everyone!
Just discovered this forum after searching for info on the M10. Today I returned an M10 that was recording hotter on the left internal mic than the right. When at the store, we tried another unit and it did the same thing. Has anyone noticed this with their M10?
^yes. I was surprised to find that the channels danced so differently on the meters, considering the mics are so close together. The left does seem to peak a little hotter, though the overall balance isn't as bad. It isn't audible.
Thank you. :)
Well, I sent mine back to B&H for a replacement because of that left channel being slightly hotter.
The new one arrived and fortunately the levels are normal. Glad I did.
What a great recorder. I'm as happy with it as when I first received the original Sony Walkman Professional back in the day (and it still works).
Did you have the Sony WM D 3 ? That was an awesome recorder for sure ( and yes , mine still works too ! ).
-
Has anyone else experienced a problem with unmatched left-right channels on their m10? I know they bill them as matched to within 1db of each other, but mine has a left channel about 2db higher than the right channel. Easily correctable in post, and not extremely noticeable given that it's an omni pattern, but kinda annoying none-the-less.
Yes, I just got mine last week and have noticed same (with internal mics). Seems OK with an external mic. I agree, annoying. I did see 2 similar posts:
[Hello everyone!
Just discovered this forum after searching for info on the M10. Today I returned an M10 that was recording hotter on the left internal mic than the right. When at the store, we tried another unit and it did the same thing. Has anyone noticed this with their M10?
^yes. I was surprised to find that the channels danced so differently on the meters, considering the mics are so close together. The left does seem to peak a little hotter, though the overall balance isn't as bad. It isn't audible.
Thank you. :)
Well, I sent mine back to B&H for a replacement because of that left channel being slightly hotter.
The new one arrived and fortunately the levels are normal. Glad I did.
What a great recorder. I'm as happy with it as when I first received the original Sony Walkman Professional back in the day (and it still works).
You sure about that? From what I've heard everyone has one channel that is a little hotter than the other. I wonder if this is true if there was some mass defect that Sony is not reporting to us.
-
Has anyone else experienced a problem with unmatched left-right channels on their m10? I know they bill them as matched to within 1db of each other, but mine has a left channel about 2db higher than the right channel. Easily correctable in post, and not extremely noticeable given that it's an omni pattern, but kinda annoying none-the-less.
Yes, I just got mine last week and have noticed same (with internal mics). Seems OK with an external mic. I agree, annoying. I did see 2 similar posts:
[Hello everyone!
Just discovered this forum after searching for info on the M10. Today I returned an M10 that was recording hotter on the left internal mic than the right. When at the store, we tried another unit and it did the same thing. Has anyone noticed this with their M10?
^yes. I was surprised to find that the channels danced so differently on the meters, considering the mics are so close together. The left does seem to peak a little hotter, though the overall balance isn't as bad. It isn't audible.
Thank you. :)
Well, I sent mine back to B&H for a replacement because of that left channel being slightly hotter.
The new one arrived and fortunately the levels are normal. Glad I did.
What a great recorder. I'm as happy with it as when I first received the original Sony Walkman Professional back in the day (and it still works).
You sure about that? From what I've heard everyone has one channel that is a little hotter than the other. I wonder if this is true if there was some mass defect that Sony is not reporting to us.
Positive. It is balanced now. Before the left channel was always hotter.
-
In Part 3 of this topic Rastesean mentioned this :
recording at 24/48 is what the majority of people do. The recorder can do 24/96 but unless you can hear the difference, go with 24/48 and you'll still be able to hold a lot on your built in 4 gigs.
I wonder why people settle for anything less than the best quality . Data storage is so cheap these days . Is there a different reason why tapers take 24/48 over 24/96 ?
When I used DAT I started out with LP ( because tapes were so expensive in the beginning ) and didn't really hear the difference . Only later to find out LP had more dropouts than SP.
Could something like that be the case here too with 24/48 or 24/96 ?
I am sure you can't really hear the difference between 24/48 and 24/96 though.
-
Thanks for reading old posts!
Data storage is cheap but that doesn't mean you have to fill it up with recordings that you may not be able to hear any difference with. Its really a preference what you record at and i don't like most tapers make the assumption its like LP or SP. Also, this is certainly not like EP or SP video tapes where there audible and visual differences. Some recorders record up to 192. Should people record in that high of a bit depth because they can? I could see recording at a high bit rate being important if you are doing sound Foley work where your environment is 100% controlled by you but if you're at a club, I don't think I need to capture the crowd at 96K; futhermore, the microphones will have much more to deal with how the recording sounds than the difference between 48 & 96.
Check out this thread for pretty detailed opinions and rhetorical questions: 24-Bit / 48kHz or 96kHz (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=153633.0)
-
I've now had four outtings with the M-10 and one thing I really, really like is that I can turn on the recorder with one hand under a shirt or coat and lock the settings. I could never do that with my Edirol. I dislike the built in 10 files thing and honestly do not understand why the built in memory has that. I've yet to record with the micro sd card--I assume there is no pre-programed file structure and it just records and splits the files in 2g sectors.
Is there a stated reason for the muliple folder set up and can I delete those?
I'm considering selling my two Edirols and getting a second M-10 for ALD and backup. Its that good.
-
the directory structure exists on external cards as well. I don't mind it because if I have many recordings on folder 01 and I need new recordings, I just go to folder two. The advantage is that i know everything in directory 1 is safe from deleting the wrong file.
Maybe you were asking about the file structure when connecting the microSD to the computer. If that's the case, then I believe there's just a couple directories on the card...I'll have to check into it.
-
Thanks for reading old posts!
No problem . As said I was in a big hurry to get a new recorder . I'm reading every thread from start to finish !
Check out this thread for pretty detailed opinions and rhetorical questions: 24-Bit / 48kHz or 96kHz (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=153633.0)
Data storage is cheap but that doesn't mean you have to fill it up with recordings that you may not be able to hear any difference with. Its really a preference what you record at and i don't like most tapers make the assumption its like LP or SP. Also, this is certainly not like EP or SP video tapes where there audible and visual differences. Some recorders record up to 192. Should people record in that high of a bit depth because they can? I could see recording at a high bit rate being important if you are doing sound Foley work where your environment is 100% controlled by you but if you're at a club, I don't think I need to capture the crowd at 96K; futhermore, the microphones will have much more to deal with how the recording sounds than the difference between 48 & 96.
Check out this thread for pretty detailed opinions and rhetorical questions: 24-Bit / 48kHz or 96kHz (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=153633.0)
Thanks for letting me now about that thread. Hadn't seen it at all.
I can see your points about 48-96/24. But still I think I choose the best possible quality . Although I don't hear any difference with the quality when I used HI MD . You are right , the mic's are probably more important .
I used my recorder last night and my recording came out great . The thing is pretty easy to work with .
During the recording the recorder made a few track marks ( or files , if that is a better word ). There was no silence in between a song , it was in the middle of a song . Is there a setting I can adjust to prevent that ? I looked all over in the manual but can't find it . It is no real problem , since the files can be played and there's no stop in between the marks.
But I prefer one file. If this was mentioned in a thread please let me know and I'll look it up . But I'm halfway reading all the threads and I may have missed this .
I use a Lexar 16 GB Micro SDHC class 10 .
http://www.lexar.com/products/lexar-high-performance-mobile-solution?category=90
It works flawless.
-
It splits the file @~2Gb, you can't change that or turn it off. Most recorders do this.
-
Just ordered an M10 and 32gb MicroSDHC card from B&H.
Hard to believe my JB3 lasted almost 10 years.
Will be running AKG 481/3 > KindKable > Oade m248 > ___________ > M-10
Is anyone running an M10 with an m248? Has anyone had custom interconnects made for RCA > 1/8" ?
-
You'll love the M10!! Get up with Darktrain or Ted for the cable.
Just ordered an M10 and 32gb MicroSDHC card from B&H.
Hard to believe my JB3 lasted almost 10 years.
Will be running AKG 481/3 > KindKable > Oade m248 > ___________ > M-10
Is anyone running an M10 with an m248? Has anyone had custom interconnects made for RCA > 1/8" ?
-
It splits the file @~2Gb, you can't change that or turn it off. Most recorders do this.
... and it will do that more often if you are running a high sample rate or bit depth. Another reason not to do so unless you are really convinced the ensuing inconveniences are worthwhile (which they may be - it's a YMMV thing).
-
If your using Cross Memory recording on the m10 will it switch from internal memory to card seamlessly?
-
HI, I am looking at getting a memory card for the PCM-M10 but know nothing about compatibility issues - this is the first memory card I've ever bought. I'm looking at this Lexar http://tinyurl.com/d2nzb7g and this samsung http://tinyurl.com/c7qxcs5
are either of these okay?
thanks for any help
-
Thread continued here: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=154969.0 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=154969.0).