Author Topic: M/S post mixdown (Read 10314 times)

Wes · « **on:** July 15, 2003, 02:13:07 PM »

Anybody know how to do a M/S mixdown in post? I can't find anything about it in wavelab. Anyone know of a program that does it?

Craig T · « **Reply #1 on:** July 15, 2003, 02:41:16 PM »

Sound Forge (pan/expand?)
CEPro (channel mixer?)

Any multi-track software can do the stereo mixdown. Takes 3 tracks:

1. load the "mid" to one track, panned to the center.
2. load the "side" to another track, panned to left
3. load the "side" with reverse polarity to the third track, panned to right.*

*if your mixer doesn't have an invert polarity (180*) function, you can copy your "side" track to a new file and invert.

Just experiment with different mid/side ratios until you get the mix you like.

One of many websites with m/s info:
http://www.sounddevices.com/tech/ms_stereo.htm

titotito · « **Reply #2 on:** July 15, 2003, 03:25:31 PM »

just get yourself a VMS box, makes things alot easier, once you have had some experience with the width knob. it does the real-time matrix. at MIDX, running a width of 6-7 seemed just right at 30' from the stage. if we had been pushed back to the section, i would have probably keep it between 3-4.

come on, we need more mid-siders.....

Lee · « **Reply #3 on:** July 15, 2003, 03:28:14 PM »

I'd be interested in messing around with some M/S stuff, but I don't have a box that will do it in the field. Do you just record the Fig-8 in one channel and the Mid in the other, then do what Craig T's talking about?

Wes · « **Reply #4 on:** July 15, 2003, 03:38:24 PM »

most, at least the main higher end pre-amps most of us use, can do m/s on the fly. However, the best results are to be had by doing the m/s mix post production where you can find just the width you like, not to say that its not possible to make a very good recording while doing m/s on the fly

titotito · « **Reply #5 on:** July 15, 2003, 03:57:46 PM »

yeah, it is pretty simple. mk8 on the top (actually doesn't matter) and the mk2/4/41 on the bottom. we use the active cables to a VMS box which can either do a left/right channel split or m/s. the m/s is matrix'ed in the box and out already mixed, according to the width setting(1-10). with the amount of schoep tapes at panic shows, we can usually get a good comparison tape and it is so much easier to setup than using a vark bar or some of the other options. onstage would be great (not at a panic show), but inside venues with the width wide open.

true- it is nicer to do the matrix post recording (which recording the mk8 to one channel and the mk2/4/41 to the other channel, then the panning that Craig mentioned). that sucks, esp. if you want to listen to the tape quickly. I wonder if you can pull stereo and m/s from the vms.... hmmmm. (good thing to think about).

wboswell · « **Reply #6 on:** July 15, 2003, 04:06:14 PM »

From what I remember with the vms box, dual output is not an option. I never used the feature, but I read up on it and it I never saw it listed. The only thing I could think of is using the headphone 1/4" output to monitor in stereo, but I still doubt you can get that to work because the you have to have the switch set to either preamp or matrix. You should try it out to be sure...

ps-I think you meant mk21(subcard) instead of mk2(omni). There would be no sense running an omni as the mid channel

titotito · « **Reply #7 on:** July 15, 2003, 04:19:16 PM »

yur right, i meant the 21s, not the omni.

plus, you may be right about the switch. maybe that is a feature of the vms05? i'll ask frank tomorrow, since he has had some experience with that unit.

t

Lee · « **Reply #8 on:** July 15, 2003, 04:22:19 PM »

hmmm... I thought AKG made a 8 cap for the 480, but I guess they don't... oh well.

wboswell · « **Reply #9 on:** July 15, 2003, 04:22:23 PM »

I forgot that you guys had the 02... Not familiar with that box!

Later, William

billbox · « **Reply #10 on:** July 15, 2003, 08:03:51 PM »

the 8 cap for the akg is the shotgun

Lee · « **Reply #11 on:** July 15, 2003, 09:03:54 PM »

8 as in figure of 8

twoodruff · « **Reply #12 on:** July 15, 2003, 09:25:50 PM »

I think billbox was referring to the ck68 cap, i am not familiar with the akg figure 8 cap

anhisr · « **Reply #13 on:** August 18, 2006, 05:48:17 PM »

So, can you do a M/S post in Wavelab 6?

Govt Mule · « **Reply #14 on:** August 18, 2006, 06:04:40 PM »

Quote from: anhisr on August 18, 2006, 05:48:17 PM

So, can you do a M/S post in Wavelab 6?

Look under "effects" for "toolsone" it has the M/S function. (note: use the alt key to slide the faders independently.)
Use render to do the whole file once you have it set the way you want it.

anhisr · « **Reply #15 on:** August 18, 2006, 06:15:20 PM »

thank you

BWolf · « **Reply #16 on:** August 18, 2006, 07:47:55 PM »

Quote from: fanosix on August 18, 2006, 06:04:40 PM

Quote from: anhisr on August 18, 2006, 05:48:17 PM
So, can you do a M/S post in Wavelab 6?

Look under "effects" for "toolsone" it has the M/S function. (note: use the alt key to slide the faders independently.)
Use render to do the whole file once you have it set the way you want it.

this tool is pretty handy for the m/s mixdown in wavelab, but you have to make sure you have the channels right. the mid should be the left channel and the side should be the right channel. as long as these are right, just play with the mixer. i found that inverting the right channel also helps.....

anhisr · « **Reply #17 on:** August 20, 2006, 01:32:08 PM »

This is much easier in wavelab 6 than soundforge 8. Being able to hear it before you apply the mix is everything. Question is, In what circumstances would I not want to use m/s?

macdaddy · « **Reply #18 on:** October 22, 2006, 12:03:12 PM »

well...

now that i have figured out which way the capsules are meant to face

, this voxengo vst plugin works beautifully. and it is free

link to the voxengo msd vst plugin

RebelRebel · « **Reply #19 on:** October 22, 2006, 12:40:44 PM »

and make sure you link the two side channels so that you can change the volume(and width)accordingly..
http://www.uaudio.com/webzine/2005/december/text/content4.html

Quote from: Craig T on July 15, 2003, 02:41:16 PM

Sound Forge (pan/expand?)
CEPro (channel mixer?)

Any multi-track software can do the stereo mixdown. Takes 3 tracks:

1. load the "mid" to one track, panned to the center.
2. load the "side" to another track, panned to left
3. load the "side" with reverse polarity to the third track, panned to right.*

*if your mixer doesn't have an invert polarity (180*) function, you can copy your "side" track to a new file and invert.

Just experiment with different mid/side ratios until you get the mix you like.

One of many websites with m/s info:
http://www.sounddevices.com/tech/ms_stereo.htm

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #20 on:** October 24, 2006, 07:25:32 AM »

as someone who does not have a good DAW to mix on, no quality monitors (and i'm not about to port things back and forth to my stereo until its just right...), I find doing the matrix in the field pretty easy, and instantly gratifying.

yes, w/all that stuff i dont have, i'm sure I could produce more "just exactly perfect" mixes, but I cant' think of a single M-S recording done on the fly that didn't please me.
the v2/3 does it w/a jumper setting inside. one for each channel.
my new MiniMP does it on the fly w/a fancy output knob for adjusting width (I think...i'll know more today when it arrives and I take it apart...)

midside · « **Reply #21 on:** October 26, 2006, 01:22:10 AM »

This is the best MS tool I have ever used!

http://www.waves.com/content.asp?id=159

anhisr · « **Reply #22 on:** October 26, 2006, 01:41:33 AM »

How do I know which one I want?

midside · « **Reply #23 on:** October 26, 2006, 01:44:32 AM »

Author Topic: M/S post mixdown (Read 10314 times)

RebelRebel