Topic: SBM-1 vs. AD-20?

[Unitmonster]

Anyone ever run comparison tapes between these two A/Ds?  I've got the AD-20 and am reasonably happy with it.  However, i've found my sound a bit too bright and thought a switch might chill things out. Also I find it a bit hot given that I run it at 0 almost exclusively. 

I don't want to lose much portability and thought that an sbm-1 might be a good compromise.  Any thoughts? 

Also what's the most common way to power the sbm1? is their a battery bay?

thanks!

[marc0789]

no contest...sbm1, mod or not.

5+ hours on four nimh 2500 AA's, or probably over 10 on a 6v via the dc out. cable available many places...ed at kind kables can build you a dual output cable to run two devices for $25.

[setboy]

ask pfife, he has run both of them


Raphael

[JasonR]

If you find the AD20 too bright, an SBM-1 might be a step in the right direction.  Compared with the AD20, I find the SBM-1 just a bit dark.  Overall I slightly prefer the sound of the AD20 to the SBM-1, but I prefer using the SBM-1 for its ganged gain controls and convenient 6V powering.

- Jason

[Unitmonster]

thanks guys!  Anyone ever use it with AT853rx mics?

[tchoub]

If you find the AD20 too bright, an SBM-1 might be a step in the right direction.  Compared with the AD20, I find the SBM-1 just a bit dark.  Overall I slightly prefer the sound of the AD20 to the SBM-1, but I prefer using the SBM-1 for its ganged gain controls and convenient 6V powering.

- Jason

I agree with this sound description. Bright for the AD20 and "dark" for the SBM-1.
The "over" indicators are also very useful on the SBM-1.

[shaggy]

AD20 -
con:
The overall sound is kind of brittle and grainy (IMHO).
The 20bit A/D converter on the M1 is better than the AD20 (IMHO).
No zero gain and gain knobs need to be modded or you got to be very skilled at operating them.
pro:
It has dual digital outs (optical/coax). 

SBM1 -
con:
the stock mic-pre is worse than the AD20*, you can brickwall.
If you don't have a M1, D7/8 you need 7pin > spdif or toslink/miniplug optical to get digi-out.
the thing gets warm/hot when you run it on batteries.
the freq (48,44.1,32kHz) can be easily switched accidentally 
pro:
The SBM dither is one of the best 20>16bit algorithrims on the market currently. 
The box is more natural sounding, more transparent when you go line in.
The Oade mod DRAMATICALLY improves the tonal characteristics of the box, giving even more of an analog warmness to it...meaning less digital harshness (read: not at all brittle).

I have experiences with both.  The AD20 are cheap now (less than $200 used) and a fine buy if you after an all in one box.  But owners generally get tired of the AD20 sound and that is the main reason some move up to the next level of A/Ds in it's size class....the SBM.  But with the SBM, you need to run a pre in front of it or get the mic-pre mod done by Oade to make it as stealthy as the AD20.


* If you get an Oade modified mic-pre mod, this is a non-factor

[macdaddy]

one my favorite topics, so i will chime in, even though i have never used an ad20...

adding to what dwonk said - i run the heb's (dpa4060) with the core-sound batt box. it is stock, and i cant remember if the box applies a gain, it might, but i have those cables terminated with rca males, and run directly into the oade line in mod (if you want to run line in with the sbm1, you MUST use the dual RCA jack). but i dont run a seperate pre (and is likely a reason why i dont find the 4060s too sensitive)...

also - the freq switch can be knocked, as can the mic / line in switch. i popped them both off after setting them to 48kHz and line in, respectively. you can still switch them with a tootpick if you need to (popping the plastic cover off with a small screwdriver doesnt hurt the unit), but getting rid of them gurantees you wont switch them...

oh, ad a stock line-in can brckwall, too - trust me.

dont those vu meters people are using run from a headphone jack..? couldnt you plug one into the sbm1 and have a detailed meter remote (at least as long as the cord)..?

as for darkness (sound), dont know about that. i guess it comes down to synergy between your gear. my mics are about as transparent as you can find. so running it through a warm mod sbm1 is a nice compliment. but if you run mics that are heavy on the low end to begin with, a warm mod pre/a>d is not the way to go - you are looking for more of the transparent or presence mods...

but the at's arent that muddy, are they..? what bugs you most about your sound atm..? if you think it is too bright, the sbm1 might be what you are looking for...

too bad they are not made anymore

[Unitmonster]

+T's all around guys. Thanks for the help. 

but the at's arent that muddy, are they..? what bugs you most about your sound atm..? if you think it is too bright, the sbm1 might be what you are looking for...

No they're not muddy, they're actually REALLY crisp.  I just find that the sound is sometimes fatiguing and was wondering if that might be due in part to the AD.  On the other hand, I taped Keller Williams last night and didn't notice any ear-tiring highs.  I've only taped about 20 shows with my current setup so I'll probably hold off on making any moves for the moment (and wait to see how the MAudio flash thingy looks), but I was thinking that the modded SBM-1 (warm and pre mods if possible) might be a nice pairing with my other gear.  Would love to hear A/B tapes of that.

[redbook]

Nice thread, looking for something similar.

Have a modded AD20 (with mini 1/8" input which gives power to my DPAS), and thinking to upgrade to a SBM1
I have the modded AD20 which does work as a battery box and would like something similar, with only one box doing the pre / ADC / power solution.
Have no experience with the SBM1, can it give enough power to my mics (stock or any custom mod)?

[shaggy]

No, it does not provide enough plug in power for your DPAs (hey require 5 volts and the plug in power I believe is like 3-4).  You need a batt box like the MPS6030.  If you have 4060s you don't need a pre, just run line in (unless you record really quiet stuff like ambient sounds).  If you have 4061s you need to get a MMA6000 at which point the SBM isn't helping things out too much other than warm the sound a bit.  Your mod'd AD20 is unique.  You should hang to that and try to run the DPAs into the AD20.  Of course  I have no idea what your ends are on the DPAs, it might take a bit of work to get them to plug into the AD20.

[redbook]

I have the DPA4061 which yes, they need some kind of pre to get powerful sound.
The have mini plug termination so I can plug to the modded AD20 with no need of the DPA batt boxes or preamps, which is great and can run everything from a single box (ADC, pre and battery box).

Don't know why, but I thought the SB1 was a preamp, now I see it's actually an ADC and no preamp (unless modded right?), so I think I'll stick with my AD20 which I'm very happy with it after all. I run 99.9% stealth and I try to keep as small as possible

Thanks for the response

[blastroknow]

thanks guys!  Anyone ever use it with AT853rx mics?

I have been using the AT853s w/the AT batt boxes into a line-in modded SBM-1 and the best thing about it is that I can tape the gain down on the SBM1 at 10 and it never clips.  You will need to add gain in post occasionally but I've been really happy with the sound and the lack of level paranoia.

[F.O.Bean]

If you find the AD20 too bright, an SBM-1 might be a step in the right direction.  Compared with the AD20, I find the SBM-1 just a bit dark.  Overall I slightly prefer the sound of the AD20 to the SBM-1, but I prefer using the SBM-1 for its ganged gain controls and convenient 6V powering.

- Jason

agreed 100%, i have neitehr really ran both myself but the tapes speak for themselves

I think the ad20 is about as clean as it gets and isnt too colored IMO but as always YMMV