Author Topic: smallest budget pre? (Tech help needed) (Read 5745 times)

Unitmonster · « **on:** December 10, 2005, 02:19:35 PM »

Hey,
Helping trouble shoot for my girlfriend here. She bought a Creative Muvo200 which has a line-in, and a Sony 717 stereo mic (with buit-in 1.5v battery) to do ambient recording. I just got a call from her saying that it's not working well at all. judging by her description it sounds like it's sending a weak signal, which I guess means taht the 717 is giving a mic-level signal that isn't working with the line-in of her recorder.

Anyhow, I thought that I might be able to find her a TINY pre that will boost the signal to line level. Doesn't have to be adjustable or have roll-off or anything, just a basic signal boost in as small a box as possible.

Any ideas on what would do the trick? Would have to be 1/8th stereo in and out.
Also, can anyone confirm that my diagnosis is correct? I thought that having a powered mic would allow her to record at line level without trouble, but I guess I was wrong?

Thanks.

edit to add: wanted to be clear that I'm looking for REALLY basic low budget solutions (ie. not an ad20 or anything of that sort). She's recording things like announcements in airports and traffic noises, not concerts. Maybe there's a homebrew solution?

setboy · « **Reply #1 on:** December 10, 2005, 02:48:23 PM »

what about a Transformer?

Unitmonster · « **Reply #2 on:** December 11, 2005, 05:38:09 PM »

what kind of transformer would do that job?

setboy · « **Reply #3 on:** December 11, 2005, 11:49:56 PM »

Quote from: Unitmonster on December 11, 2005, 05:38:09 PM

what kind of transformer would do that job?

i don't really know much about them.

can any one else help?

gngrbrdman13 · « **Reply #4 on:** December 15, 2005, 11:54:38 AM »

Quote from: Unitmonster on December 10, 2005, 02:19:35 PM

Hey,
Helping trouble shoot for my girlfriend here. She bought a Creative Muvo200 which has a line-in, and a Sony 717 stereo mic (with buit-in 1.5v battery) to do ambient recording. I just got a call from her saying that it's not working well at all. judging by her description it sounds like it's sending a weak signal, which I guess means taht the 717 is giving a mic-level signal that isn't working with the line-in of her recorder.

Anyhow, I thought that I might be able to find her a TINY pre that will boost the signal to line level. Doesn't have to be adjustable or have roll-off or anything, just a basic signal boost in as small a box as possible.

Any ideas on what would do the trick? Would have to be 1/8th stereo in and out.
Also, can anyone confirm that my diagnosis is correct? I thought that having a powered mic would allow her to record at line level without trouble, but I guess I was wrong?

Thanks.

edit to add: wanted to be clear that I'm looking for REALLY basic low budget solutions (ie. not an ad20 or anything of that sort). She's recording things like announcements in airports and traffic noises, not concerts. Maybe there's a homebrew solution?

a mic in is ~12dB hotter than a line level in to do exactly as you said 'boost the signal'. This is definitely your issue. I dont know of an 1/8in box that will help you. Sorry.

Unitmonster · « **Reply #5 on:** December 15, 2005, 12:12:15 PM »

damn. looking like this is a tougher nut to crack than I expected.

gngrbrdman13 · « **Reply #6 on:** December 15, 2005, 12:15:56 PM »

Quote from: Unitmonster on December 15, 2005, 12:12:15 PM

damn. looking like this is a tougher nut to crack than I expected.

Can you return the Creative unit and buy something with the mic in?

Unitmonster · « **Reply #7 on:** December 15, 2005, 01:15:10 PM »

the creative unit is now in Australia with my girlfriend for the next 4 months.

Double sucks.

cpatch · « **Reply #8 on:** December 26, 2005, 02:56:08 AM »

This is as small as I've seen although I don't know what kind of quality it's going to give her:

http://www.hotmp3gear.com/Microphone.htm

It comes with a cheap mic that she can uplug and throw away. Personally I'd be more tempted to spend a few bucks more and pick up an iRiver iFP-700 series off eBay. It's the only flash-based MP3 player I've come across (and I've done a fair bit of looking) with mic-in. You can monitor through headphones while recording and you can record up to 44KHz/320bps MP3s. Its noise floor leaves a lot to be desired (it works best with a hot mic) but it's not much worse than the MicroTrack. And talk about stealth...you could mount the stereo lavs AND the iRiver inside a hat and record for 8 hours on a single AA with the 1GB 799 version!

It has its quirks: there are no level meters and you can't adjust the recording level once you start recording, it doesn't work as an external USB drive without a firmware upgrade that lowers the recording quality, and the interface takes some getting used to, but it's definitely a great device when budget and portability are more important than getting the highest recording quality possible. (The quality isn't shabby, either...check out the first sound file on Sound Professional's samples page:

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category/samples

Craig

redbook · « **Reply #9 on:** December 26, 2005, 06:50:02 AM »

I think you will find in ebay some cheap pres, which are not so good but really cheap (around 30$) and maybe solve the situation

divamum · « **Reply #10 on:** December 26, 2005, 10:30:09 AM »

This may still be out of your budget at around $170, but it's worth checking out (and looking on ebay/2ndhand etc)

Reacative Boostbox, found at

http://www.reactivesounds.com/spa2.php

And usually a bit cheaper at

www.minidisco.com

I have been 100% satisfied with mine. No, it doesn't have an ADC, no it isn't the absolutely-best pre out there, no it isn't fancy. But it's cheaper than most, easy to use, small and does the job. It also provides power for plug-in-power mics. I'm entirely happy with mine until I can upgrade to something with an ADC in it.

HTH

redbook · « **Reply #11 on:** December 26, 2005, 11:48:14 AM »

I'm not saying yours it's bad, but I'd take an used AD20 for 200$ rather than that one for 170$, IMHO

divamum · « **Reply #12 on:** December 26, 2005, 12:57:18 PM »

Well, if I could ever have FOUND a 1/8" mini plug/power adapted AD20 for $200 I'd have jumped on it so fast it would've made yer head spin ... but I didn't (and haven't yet). Compromises had to be made................ Until I am in a position to upgrade, this does the job.

redbook · « **Reply #13 on:** December 27, 2005, 03:25:04 AM »

AD20 used price is around 200$, I bought mine for 200 and resold a few months later for the same price.

Unitmonster · « **Reply #14 on:** December 31, 2005, 11:46:36 AM »

wow, missed all these other posts. THanks for the help folks. AD20 is definately too much Pre for what she's doing. That Archos thingy looks decent. Basically the lightest, cheapest tool for the job is the priority, not the quality (I can't believe I'm actually writing that

). The idea for her is to capture the sounds conveniently, not in high fidelity. I'll keep on the lookout on ebay too.

qpwoei · « **Reply #15 on:** December 31, 2005, 12:31:42 PM »

you may want to check this, a plug-in powerered, 20dB booster. I own one and works ok

http://www.felmicamps.co.uk/products/fel3.5series.html

jeromejello · « **Reply #16 on:** January 05, 2006, 04:10:09 PM »

Quote from: qpwoei on December 31, 2005, 12:31:42 PM

you may want to check this, a plug-in powerered, 20dB booster. I own one and works ok

http://www.felmicamps.co.uk/products/fel3.5series.html

i am not the smartest one here... but arent those things just modded transformers (e.g. Hosa MIT-176)... if so you are getting reamed for them... hosa transformers are about $30 each

Unitmonster · « **Reply #17 on:** January 05, 2006, 04:26:38 PM »

now I'm confused. Are these just changing the impedence or the line level (and is there a difference for that matter)? I need something to boost the signal. Don't know if an impedence transformer does that.

cpatch · « **Reply #18 on:** January 05, 2006, 04:45:43 PM »

Quote from: qpwoei on December 31, 2005, 12:31:42 PM

you may want to check this, a plug-in powerered, 20dB booster. I own one and works ok

http://www.felmicamps.co.uk/products/fel3.5series.html

US$250 for a stereo XLR transformer??? That takes brass.

Craig

cybermansrev · « **Reply #19 on:** January 05, 2006, 05:11:50 PM »

Quote from: cpatch on January 05, 2006, 04:45:43 PM

US$250 for a stereo XLR transformer??? That takes brass.

Now you know what bullshit we have to put up with getting gear in the UK

cpatch · « **Reply #20 on:** January 05, 2006, 06:51:49 PM »

Send me US$500 and I'll hand deliver two to you.

Craig

poorlyconditioned · « **Reply #21 on:** January 05, 2006, 07:04:12 PM »

Quote from: jeromejello on January 05, 2006, 04:10:09 PM

Quote from: qpwoei on December 31, 2005, 12:31:42 PM
you may want to check this, a plug-in powerered, 20dB booster. I own one and works ok

http://www.felmicamps.co.uk/products/fel3.5series.html

i am not the smartest one here... but arent those things just modded transformers (e.g. Hosa MIT-176)... if so you are getting reamed for them... hosa transformers are about $30 each

I'm just guessing here, but I think these are actually premps (very low voltage opamps?) running off of the plug in power. They also sell versions that run off phantom power (eg., step 48V down to 10V or so, and run opamps off this).

FWIW, you can't use transformers on just anything. You need a low-impedance source, either a dynamic mic, or a condenser mic *with* a phantom power adapter (that has a current boosting circuit inside). If you just try to put a battery box output into a transformer, it will not provide any voltage gain. (I tried it!!!) The reason is that electret mics themselves are pretty high impedance already.

The only exception is DPA 406x mics. They *claim* to be low impedance output (probably using some boosting circuit right in the mic body). Has anyone tried transformers on these?

Richard